gwydion

libertyandfree said:

DAalseth said:

The US needs stuff from China more than China needs ANYTHING from the US.
I expect there may be exemptions for Amazon, Apple and Walmart. But the hundreds of thousands of small stores, local stores, regional stores, that are the heart of the economy will be massacred. 

As someone pointed out yesterday, this whole scrap is above all making China look like the reliable, stable, rational, trustworthy partner. That is going to be the most harmful thing coming out of this for the US.

China needs money from the US to run their economy.  The US is by far their biggest customer whereas we are mostly consumers of their products - many of them not essential for daily life.  Yes, some small businesses rely on their cheap Chinese products but they will have to adapt in the short term - you don’t fold because some segments get hurt.  If the US stops buying the Chinese goods then China must sell them elsewhere, or shutter factories, which floods the market and crashes their prices.  Forgotten in all this is the massive theft by China on IP which was being reversed by the first Trump administration and then was unexplainable dropped by the Biden administration.  This needs to be corrected as well and this requires the Chinese govt to enforce.  

bells said:

gwydion said:

adrayven said:

gwydion said:

The Commission declared that tax rates on European profits were illegally low at 0.005 percent in 2014, and 1 percent in 2013

No, this is not what the EC declared, what the EC declared illegal is the deal between the Irish Government and Apple for the way the amount of taxable profits in Ireland were calculated for Apple Sales International.

The rate applied was 12.5%,  The problem has never been with the tax rates in Ireland, or the tax rates in Belgium in the latest analog ruling

Incorrect.. The commission never proved their was a 'special' deal.. They only claimed it based on the 'low rates' in those years.. Their case is truly based on the low rates.. Which is why Ireland is largely fighting it, saying EU shouldn't be able to set their rates.

It's believed this move by the EU is a first political move to attempt to force it's will of equalized rates across all countries that are part of the EU.. I have a feeling that, while people are poo poo'ing Apple, that soon other countries will soon (Netherlands for example) be in the EU's sights and things will heat up even more.

The irony is; Tim Cook is completely disputing the low rates they claim. Example is Apple says they paid Ireland $400 million (5%) in taxes in 2014; which completely contradicts EU's contention that Apple only paid a $4-5 million (.005%) ... I'm VERY interested in seeing where the EU is getting their low numbers from..

The you should read the Press Release and the ruling.

And the EC has never said that Apple has paid an effective rate of 0.005%

Yes, because a press release is the way to get your facts. 

I have  little idea how much Apple has paid in taxes, but I know the taxes system of Ireland has been in place ever since Apple set up shop over 30 years ago. I read about it when Jobs first came back.

The rate was designed to attract foreign investment, desperately needed in Ireland. Many companies took advantage of the tax laws, and no special deal was set up just for Apple. 

It simply is unfair for the EU to 30 + years later claim Apple has been under paying when it has known for that long Ireland's tax rate and how much companies like Apple paid. This isn't a recent revelation. 

Further, if Ireland set an illegal rate, Ireland should eat the cost not a company following the law.

Moreover, the fight isn't really about the taxes, it is about who gets to collect them. Apple's view is the US is the proper taxing entity.

The instability this precedent sets will destabilize European investment and costs will be passed on to consumers.  

This will validate Britain's decision to leave the EU. 

I think companies like Apple should pay more taxes, but not retroactively. Governments should clarify the tax laws.

cali said:

If the patent is invalidated will Apple get their money back? Or will they be screwed of $100M while the other scumbags get away Scot free?

anantksundaram said:

The former EU Commissioner -- Neelie Kroes, who was no great friend of multinational corporations avoiding taxes -- is lambasting this EU decision and report. In The Guardian, no less. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/01/eu-state-aid-tax-avoidance-apple

Worth a read, especially if you live, or do business, in the EU.

sog35 said:

FACT: Android sales have been going down
FACT: Desktop search has been decreasing 5-15% each year for a decade
FACT: iOS mobile revenue makes up the bulk of Google's online advertising

Having those facts in mind it's obvious that any future revenue growth from Google will come from the growth of iOS ads.

Yet Wall Street views Google as a hyper growth company with a 30 PE.
When Google is literally a Tim Cook decision from having 90% of its future growth killed off.
Tim Cook could literally remove Google as the default search from iOS tomorrow.

Google would instantly lose 70% of its mobile advertising.
Google would instantly lose 90% of its future revenue growth.

Yet Wall Street thinks Google is 4x safer investment than Apple. Ridiculous.

For Apple to have shrinking revenues literally TENS OF MILLIONS of people would have to change their mind about a device they use every single day.
For Google to have shrinking revenues Tim Cook would just have to turn off a switch.