avon b7

tmay said:

hammeroftruth said:

StrangeDays said:

hammeroftruth said:

It’s funny how many fandroids get very upset at the fact that they cannot buy Huawei devices here and scream that there is no proof about any allegations of espionage. 

The simple fact that the CIA and the NSA issued the warning isn’t good enough for them. I get not trusting some parts of our govt, but when the part that spies on other countries warns the American people that there is a real risk, I think we should listen. 

Especially when it’s all the heads of six intelligence agencies, operating in unison.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/14/17011246/huawei-phones-safe-us-intelligence-chief-fears

The same agencies that said Russia meddled in the election and are no friends to the administration. Their findings were valid then, but now they aren’t — for the Chinese Cheer Squad, anyway. 

Cognitive dissonance, much?

It almost like a disease. People would risk having their info monitored by another country just to have a shiny new toy. 
I don’t like the thought of my country tracking me, but the thought of another country tracking me creeps me out. 

Has anyone seen how many cameras China has in public to watch them? Do they get that you can get arrested by looking at a website they label as subversive?

They still want the device because it will do 5G. Great trade off!!

I'll play;

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2019-03-06/problem-xis-china-model?utm_source=twitter_posts&utm_campaign=tw_daily_soc&utm_medium=social

"Under Xi’s leadership, the party now has eyes everywhere—literally. As many as 200 million surveillance cameras have already been installed in an effort to reduce crime and control social unrest. The surveillance technology will also play an essential role in the 2020 national rollout of the country’s social credit system, which will evaluate people’s political and economic trustworthiness and reward and punish them accordingly. The CCP has now established party committees within nearly 70 percentof all private enterprises and joint ventures, in order to ensure that the businesses advance the interests of the state. Beijing has also succeeded in constraining outside influences: thanks to a law passed two years ago, for example, the number of foreign nongovernmental organizations operating in China has fallen from more than 7,000to just over 400. And “Made in China 2025”—China’s plan to protect its domestic firms from foreign competition in ten areas of critical cutting-edge technology—is well under way. The Sichuan provincial government, for example, has stipulated that for 15 types of medical devices, hospitals will be reimbursed only for procedures that use Chinese-manufactured devices."

Huawei is has been very successful in the emerging nations selling their telecom systems at low prices, with subsidies, and even with financing, all with the blessings and support of the CCP. Western nations have not been as welcoming, citing issues of National Security.

Coincidentally, those countries that have bans or attempted bans of Huawei telecom, are seeing unusual retaliation in the form of export contract cancellations, and export "friction", a sure sign the the Chinese Government has an interest in Huawei's success in the West. Likely as well, the two unlucky Canadian's picked up for "spying", are hostages in the extradition drama of Meng Wanzhou, Huawei CFO.

yet more;

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-06/diplomatic-outbursts-mar-xi-s-plan-to-raise-china-on-world-stage

Huawei has been very successful with western nations too, not only emerging nations.

China sees Huawei as a national champion and I have no doubt that it takes some decisions based on how Huawei is treated by some countries. That is not a problem. The US has literally been threatening its allies for weeks over Huawei. There is a big difference between the two situations though.

Does China want to see more success for Huawei in the west? Why wouldn't it?

The US is currently negotiating with the UK on possible post Brexit agreements as it wants US companies to have more success in the UK. This is normal.

Country to country, where politics underlies a large part of what goes on, is not the same as country to company. If you start singling out one particular company and take your case and attempt to impose it on other countries you are very likely to get into hot water both politically and legally. Especially if you have very little to back up your case in the first place.

Remember, this is about protectionism, not security. At the MWC press conference that the US delegation held (yes, unbelievable but true) they were asked point blank to give a statement on that pesky detail of evidence. They didn't. This fact was echoed in the sunseqsubs articles in the press.

color said:

avon b7 said:

color said:

License 5G tech from Huawei.

This isn't an option today as, AFAIK, Huawei doesn't licence its chipsets. This is also referenced in the article.

I don't think they couldn't be persuaded though but there are politically sensitive issues that would make the idea a 'no go' in the US.

It wouldn't make sense to use Balong 5000 outside the US either as Apple wants its phones to have similar performance everywhere and they would find themselves having to cap its performance. Apple also wants to have the modem on the SoC.

Right now, the biggest issue for Apple is the speed of the 5G roll out and having competitors shipping devices - now - with the 5G buzzwords

The faster the roll out, the more Apple will notice impact of not having a 5G phone.

Huawei 5G tech is going to get installed worldwide. See all the countries refusing to go along with the USA mini-boycott of Huawei. Apple already has license agreements with Huawei, so adding on its 5G tech solves a number of problems:
it allows Apple to build 5G into SOC
it promotes the more advanced Huawei 5G tech,
it “solves” the so-called “security” problem of using Huawei chips while Huawei gets licensing revenue.

It is reported that Apple licences lots of patents from Huawei but I am not aware of them  licencing any chipsets to third parties with the exception of those destined for imaging (cameras, TVs etc).

I think that Apple would like to have a modem on the SoC (just like Huawei does with the Kirin 980) for example because of the advantages involved. The Kirin 980 recently won an award for its LTE support.

The problem is that right now the Balong 5000 isn't on the Kirin 980 although rumours swirl about a Kirin 990 that might better accommodate Balong 5000.

When Huawei announced the Ascend line of chipsets they said they were not competing with intel or Qualcomm as their chips would not be available to hardware makers. I believe the same approach is applicable to Huawei modems.

color said:

License 5G tech from Huawei.

This isn't an option today as, AFAIK, Huawei doesn't licence its chipsets. This is also referenced in the article.

I don't think they couldn't be persuaded though but there are politically sensitive issues that would make the idea a 'no go' in the US.

It wouldn't make sense to use Balong 5000 outside the US either as Apple wants its phones to have similar performance everywhere and they would find themselves having to cap its performance. Apple also wants to have the modem on the SoC.

Right now, the biggest issue for Apple is the speed of the 5G roll out and having competitors shipping devices - now - with the 5G buzzwords

The faster the roll out, the more Apple will notice impact of not having a 5G phone.

tmay said:

seanismorris said:

GeorgeBMac said:

AppleInsider said:

Initiated under President George W. Bush in 2001, the program collected phone and text messaging logs from carriers en masse, nominally with the goal of identifying links to terrorism suspects. At first companies like AT&T voluntarily complied with an order by Bush, but by 2006 the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court began issuing secret orders making that data mandatory under an interpretation of the Patriot Act. One of those orders, sent to Verizon, was the first of many documents exposed by Snowden and The Guardian.

Snowden and others attacked the program as a potential tool of mass surveillance, and possibly even more damaging than analyzing the actual contents of messages, since metadata can be collated to identify a person's location and habits.

Interestingly, as additional (actual) facts become known, the administration is shifting its Huawei story to say that somewhere in the future the Chinese government could do exactly what the U.S. government has been doing:  Ordering private corporations to spy on people.

Huawei's suggestion that standardized, international guidelines on spying be established starts to make more and more sense.

Spying on private corporations is to obvious and detectable.  If Huawei’s equipment ever gets used for a nefarious purpose, it will be a one time usage in cyber warfare (like WW3).

I agree, government sponsored IP theft is a huge problem with China.  But, they’re not going to hinder their growth and reputation by using Huawei to do so.  That would be shortsighted... and that’s one thing China isn’t.

Going after Huawei is more about maintaining technological dominance, and at the same time smacking down anyone that deals with Iran.  

This administration has an Iran fixation, probably due to its ties to Saudi Arabia.  I’m not saying Iran are “good guys” but they are far from the only country with nuclear aspirations.  Pakistan (for example) already has nukes and we still maintain relations with them.  Ideologically, we’re just as far apart...

Our problem with Iran should be about them sponsoring terrorist groups and instigating proxy wars.  Isolating Iran haven’t been effective,  economic ties are more effective in influencing Iran’s future...

/sorry got off topic ; )

Huawei has already been caught spying on client countries. Whether that is "shortsighted" or not is yet unknown. 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jan/11/huawei-employee-arrested-in-poland-over-chinese-spy-allegations

Then there is the case of the African Union headquarters;

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-african-union-headquarters-hack-and-australias-5g-network/

"The AU’s grand and sprawling complex was the focus of intrigue and controversy earlier this year—controversy that sheds light on reported ‘national security concerns’ in Australia about which companies should be involved in our 5G network and other critical infrastructure projects.

In January 2018, France’s Le Monde newspaper published an investigation, based on multiple sources, which found that from January 2012 to January 2017 servers based inside the AU’s headquarters in Addis Ababa were transferring data between 12 midnight and 2  am—every single night—to unknown servers more than 8,000 kilometres away hosted in Shanghai. Following the discovery of what media referred to as ‘data theft’, it was also reported that microphones hidden in desks and walls were detected and removed during a sweep for bugs.

The Chinese government refuted Le Monde’s reporting. Chinese state media outlet CGTN (formerly CCTV) reported that China’s foreign ministry spokesperson called the Le Mondeinvestigation ‘utterly groundless and ridiculous’. China’s ambassador to the AU said it was ‘ridiculous and preposterous’. The BBC also quoted the ambassador as saying that the investigation ‘is not good for the image of the newspaper itself’.

Other media outlets, including the Financial Times, confirmed the data theft in reports published after the Le Monde investigation. It’s also been reported on by think tanks and private consultancies from around the world.

One AU official told the Financial Times that there were ‘many issues with the building that are still being resolved with the Chinese. It’s not just cybersecurity’.

Huawei isn't in a position to deserve the trust of any Western country, whatever the mitigations that are in place to provide "security".

https://twitter.com/tombschrader/status/1102895569981394944

The discussion above is wrt the actual Chinese law that requires that companies comply. In reality, the Chinese Government has the ability to do whatever they want, and change the law ex post facto. 

https://www.wired.com/story/law-expert-chinese-government-cant-force-huawei-make-backdoors/

The LeMonde story had the usual 'anonymous' sources. Can you see a pattern here?

In other news...

Huawei has stated again and again that all data it manages in Europe never ever leaves Europe. All data from carriers that use Huawei gear in Europe is managed by the carriers. They run the networks.

There are Huawei security centres in the UK, Germany and Belgium where officials have access to Huawei source code. As a result of this access, governments can (and do) recommend changes. As a result of the recommendations, Huawei is investing billions into security.

Can you name any other company that finds itself open to that level of scrutiny?

All the while the US is touring the world (literally) telling foreign governments to not do deals with Huawei and not providing ANY evidence to support its claims.

It is now widely accepted that the real reasons for this attitude towards Huawei are not security related at all but related to US protectionism and a fear of being overtaken technologically in this field.

Now Huawei has grown tired and the latest rumours point to Huawei taking legal action against the US government. It has also publicly called out the US government on its slur campaign and some industry watchers claim foreign governments may decide to ignore US warnings as it has not been able to back up its claims.

https://wap.business-standard.com/article/international/prism-prism-on-the-wall-huawei-turns-witty-to-fight-us-spying-charges-119022800121_1.html

https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/US-must-learn-from-anti-Huawei-campaign-struggle

https://www.politico.eu/article/huawei-telecoms-mobile-world-congress-fair-how-huawei-won-barcelona/

https://www.marketplace.org/2019/03/01/tech/heres-why-theres-no-us-telecom-giant-huawei

https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/04/huawei-reportedly-plans-to-sue-us-government-over-ban/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/03/05/huawei-is-planning-to-go-on-the-warpath-to-defeat-the-u-s-government/#5c7873fb48ad

Etc

ericthehalfbee said:

Nice to see I've upset the two resident trolls who try to be pedantic when they knew exactly what I'm talking about.

I never stated that MWC "itself" was always talking about Apple. It's all the media that reports on all the new devices and technology that drag Apple into every discussion. Do you deny that this is happening?

If you say MWC, expect people to read it as MWC. 

If you mean 'the media reporting on MWC', why not just come out and say it?

Of course, if you did that, your comment would lose focus and fall into the bag of 'anti Apple narrative' which hasn't been representative of MWC or the media reporting on it to any appreciable degree. Understandable really because Apple isn't a communications company.

The media simply isn't dragging Apple into every discussion. That isn't the case at all. The media is talking about 5G and the 5G players because MWC2018/19 were dominated by 5G.

Apple has one big phone splash every year. The 2018 refresh is now old news. 5G is the newsworthy item and the handset/device makers have taken advantage of the media attention to announce new products. What MWC is really about is deal making and industry progress.