avon b7

GeorgeBMac said:

Trump admits that he's blocking Huawei as part of his trade war to let poorly performing U.S. companies catch-up -- and announces he will skip 5G and go straight to 6G.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/21/trump-sends-bizarre-6g-tweet-as-china-trade-talks-resume.html

Those tweets are astonishing. His advisors must be tearing their hair out.

Most people knew from the outset the likely reasons for what the US was doing to try and de-rail Huawei at any cost but for him come out to post something that pretty much confirms it, is a reckless thing to do.

If it were limited to the US perhaps people would shrug it off but he has people touring Europe right now threatening governments to follow US policy on Huawei.

I'm sure EU member states are also flabbergasted by these comments.

He's basically saying he's all for competition but only if the US is guaranteed to come out on top.

The upshot is that he doesn't want Huawei's better, cheaper, technology on the playing field, much less when Huawei is delivering solutions worldwide already (40,000 5G base stations already shipped).

anantksundaram said:

avon b7 said:

anantksundaram said:

avon b7 said:

anantksundaram said:

Al_ien1 said:

The US has been doing the same thing for decades. There is a Foriegn Technology Division in WPAFB in Ohio whose purpose is to reverse engineer Foriegn Technology! China has invested untold Billions of dollars in technology while the US has SPENT untold Billions on the military. If America had created the 5G technology first they would be pushing it to countries around the world (for spying as well ) and no one would have heard of Huawei. 

OK, you China trolls that are showing up in spades. Here's a simple question that I invite any one of you to answer: Name one -- not two, not three, not four, just one -- product or service created/innovated by China in the past, let's say, three decades that has become a global product or service. I dare you to name one.

I'll wait.

That reminded me of the 'what have the Romans ever done for us?' in the Life of Brian. LOL.

But if we are ignoring what the Chinese gave to the world centuries ago and limiting scope to the last few decades, I'd say China is leading the way in technologies related to facial recognition and exporting them with success but what is perhaps more noteworthy is the progess it has made in innovation and technology during the last 30 years:

https://www.nber.org/papers/w22854.pdf [.pdf]

And I suppose Chow Mein doesn't count ;-)

Joking apart, let's not forget that Huawei is going to be a major player in 5G and everything associated with the technologies that branch out from it.

Ah, I knew that ridiculous stuff like centuries old "chow mein" -- heck, I'll even grant you paper, porcelain, and gunpowder -- would be trotted out.

The only example you can come up with is a yet-to-be proven "..leading the way in in technologies related to facial recognition and exporting them with success...." How exactly are they leading the way except in building the surveillance state? Who are the companies doing this? What are their revenues? To whom are they exporting? What is the value of their exports? How does it compare with their $500B in Chinese exports to the US of other stuff that the rest of the world created or innovated?

Btw, do you know who came up with facial recognition technology, and where? (Hint: It's not China).

That's all you can come up with?! Did China come up with.... let me throw out a few random things from just the last 30 or so years... Laptops? Email? E-commerce? Search? Social networking? GUI? MRI? Flash memory? Lasers? Robotic surgery? DNA testing? RFID? Barcodes? Stents? Smartphones? Tablets? Biofuels? ATMs? LEDs? LCDs? GPS? Large scale wind turbines? PV cells? Digital photography?

If you go back a bit more, did China come up with world-changing things like Airplanes? Fiber optics? Internet? Software/programming languages? Automobiles? The internal combustion engine? Rockets? Satellites? Penicillin? The germ theory of disease? Open heart surgery? Semiconductors? Want me to go on? Want 20 more such examples? 50 more? 100 more?

Name ONE innovation from China -- OK, I'll expand it to the last 100 years -- that's in the same league as any of these. ONE. (I don't wish to single out China -- I'll take any Asian country as an example in the same league of innovative ability, if you can provide it).

Pathetic... please just slink away...

As I said, what is far more important is how they have progressed and where they might be heading over the coming decades. The document I linked to is quite informative. Especially the section on patents

Facial recognition technology is not something people want to speak openly about but Chinese tech is currently in testing or being used around the world in both the public and private sector. HiSilicon is also developing (well it has already deployed) custom AI silicon to advance the technology even further.

Facial recognition wasn't the only thing I mentioned. I also mentioned 5G and the possible developments arising from that.

1) “How they progressed and where they might heading”: bottom line, you cannot name a SINGLE Chinese innovation of consequence. My original question and its premise stands. 

2) “Facial recognition technology is not something that people want to talk about”: yet you somehow know? Stop this utter bullshit 

3) What about 5G? Did China develop it? Do you know the history of 5G? What ‘possible developments’? Again, utter bullshit. 

In fact, for all the IP that has been stolen, I hope you’ll have something to show for it going forward. Something original and impactful that builds on all that theft, for a change. 

Like I said before, stop embarrassing yourself. And your country. Just slink away, man, and take all your troll pals with you. 

1. Why does it matter? All the great civilisations gave us good and bad. We are supposed to learn from those aspects and improve on them. Many Apple patents actually name people of Chinese descendency. One of the major differences between the progress of Russian and Chinese communist systems over the last decades has been emmigration of Chinese nationals. Now there are many Chinese companies outside China contributing to the patent pool.  You deliberately limited your question to a timeframe which included a period when China was going through reform. In spite of that I dug out a document that showed the huge progress made in technology stakes during the period. The document's conclusions are somewhat open ended as no one knows what the future may hold. Nevertheless it details wholesale advances in its technological patent output (a recognised metric) which shows no signs of slowing down. In the case if Huawei it is said that Apple licences close to 800 patents from the company.

2. Facial recognition is a delicate subject for obvious reasons. Many governments favour implementation of systems but are wary of a public backlash and try to keep plans under wraps. That doesn't change the fact that the Chinese (again for obvious reasons) are widely accepted as currently leading the race here.

3. 5G. Huawei has been a major player in the development of 5G. 'Possible developments' refers to where things will go after deployment. One of the major US fears is seeing Chinese companies deploy systems and actually start developing solutions for them well in advance of US efforts. The connected world is simply a slogan at this point but there are big plans. The problem - today - is that there is very little deployment. That is quickly being resolved as we speak and the US is not really in the race at this point, hence these actions by Pompeo and company who fear the US losing strategic importance across the board (military, economic, scientific, consumer, industry etc). The theoretical implications are vast and 5G may provide the threads that tie it all together. People are talking about 5G as a new revolution. It is early days but I can see why the US is more than worried.

Read this and play close attention to the quotes of US government representatives:

https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2186661/huawei-just-start-5g-will-be-central-front-us-china-war

Let's imagine for a moment that IP was actually stolen. Of all the MASSIVE R&D outlay and technology advances by Huawei to date, and in all fields, how much do you think was stolen?

Try to put some perspective into things because I'm seeing lots of patents coming out of Huawei (for which Apple reportedly pays hundreds of millions of dollars) and smartphone advances that are a long way off appearing on iPhones.

Now re-read the piece and confirm to me that all there is at this point are allegations. Nothing more. I mention this because I get the impression that your mind is already made up.

I will repeat. Truth in any of these allegations apart, we are in the middle of a slur campaign by the US government that has so far not offered any evidence of what it is claiming. In fact, and as of today, Huawei phones are still on sale in the US and worldwide, and are  smashing sales records. What better reason could there be to try and tarnish the name of the company in an attempt slow its progress down?

However, speculation apart, I prefer the facts, of which none have yet been presented. Do you agree?

A heads up for you. MWC is next week. Huawei has spent over 18 million euros on its stand at the show and wants its voice to be heard. 

Here is a little taste of reality in this ongoing saga:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-19/trump-s-huawei-threats-dismissed-in-italian-pivot-toward-china

The word bullying is now being heard with regards to US attempts to impact Huawei's progress on foreign soil. There is a growing feeling of 'we don't want you meddling in our internal affairs to suit your [US] interests'.

When Pompeo began threatening nations, it really looks to have irritated some governments. I will remind you of leaked comments by high ranking EU officials after Donald Trump was elected that made it clear that the US should be considered less of an ally given his stance on certain topics. That is truer today than it ever was not so long ago.

ericthehalfbee said:

avon b7 said:

mercel said:

Joe Arredondo said:

At least the Chinesse realize they dont have what is required to create such amazing products and they are trying to learn how to make it... is bad but you have to learn somewere.... Apple need to protect better its investments

And people should stop patronizing the copycat manufacturers.  I’m looking at you Huawei, Samsung, etc.  

At this point in time it should be clear to all that a very widespread and intense slur campaign is underway by the US government against Huawei.

The US is pushing other countries hard to stop Huawei's progress in key strategic fields where the US looks to lose influence.

Mike Pence is on tour at this very moment and attacking Huawei at every step - and admitting to it publicly - but with little or nothing in tow in terms of facts.

I would say if there is anything to bite on, companies must present formal charges. 'Anonymous' claims and how they are presented should be taken lightly until the 5G roll out is well under way.

Huawei's R&D outlay has been consistently near the top of the world rankings for years now and that is part of the reality the US hawks do not want to entertain. 

The courts is very much the way to go if any of the facts want to be heard (should they truly exist).

As far as stripping down competitors' products goes, I'm sure it's standard practice and I include Apple in this group too as well.

So much bullshit here I don't know where to start. How about this little gem:

'Anonymous' claims and how they are presented should be taken lightly until the 5G roll out is well under way.

Really? So we should use Huawei gear to build out 5G BEFORE it's been thoroughly vetted? How fucking stupid are you?

As far as stripping down competitors' products goes, I'm sure it's standard practice and I include Apple in this group too as well.

Again, how fucking stupid are you? There's a huge difference between buying a product and examining how it works and trying to trick manufacturers into giving up trade secrets or convince them to build components for you using someone elses IP by pretending you had the same idea. Huawei COULDN'T figure out how to make these components after tear down, which is why they went to Apple suppliers to see if they'd give up anything to help them.

You really need to think about what is being said and what you yourself are saying.

On the one hand Huawei is being painted as the king of the hill in communications espionage (I'm speaking in general) but on the other it needs to go out and - openly - try to extract details from competitors' suppliers. In many cases, those suppliers will be supplying groups of companies of which Huawei could be one.

If there is anything illegal going on, I say present charges and get everything out in the air. Does that make sense to you?

The problem - at this point in time - is that too many dodgy claims are being made and they all mostly come from the same place.

We've reached a point where I simply distrust much of what is coming out on Huawei which can be tracked back to the US.

We went from 'national security risks' that were never backed up, through to 'urging' governments to stop dealing with Huawei through to open 'threats' of negative consequences in future dealings of any country that doesn't heed what the US is saying.

And now, over the last two or three days, it is rumoured that some key governments might not actually listen to the US because, and this is in spite of the US claims, evidence of wrongdoing on any level simply hasn't been forthcoming. Maybe some governments doubt what the US is claiming. No, they do doubt that because they know - everybody knows - why the US fears China when it comes to 5G and Huawei is seen as some arm of the Chinese government. Well, even the US admits to that. Behind closed doors the US is asking itself how it failed to catch the 5G train and fretting over the answers.

Forgive me for being sceptical on these things in the current environment, especially as the door is wide open for legal action to be taken by those who feel agrieved.

I've reached the point where I say, go ahead and make a formal accusation, let the facts be heard and decisions taken.

On the subject of 5G you obviously haven't been paying a lot of attention. So far, NOTHING has been presented, discovered or deemed so risky that Huawei must be excluded from anything.

There is a wealth of information out there from experts who simply scoff at the idea the US is trying to convey of a black and white scenario.  No, far from it, but one thing is universally accepted. NO ICT company on the planet is under the same levels of scrutiny as Huawei. None.

I doubt the US would ever allow Cisco to receive the same scrutiny and neither would Ericcson or Nokia.

So while there are doubts about Cisco and US agencies and the NSA has already been caught with its tentacles in some high profile pies I will wait and let the legal system do its thing if there is anything truly worth persuing.

Most of the top ICT CEOs readily accept that Huawei is ahead of the field in 5G. It's clear the US doesn't like that, which I can understand because this is an important global technology, but in the absence of any hard evidence and after the Snowden leaks (among other high profile cases) I will put things down to fear of being overtaken by the Chinese in this area while being unable to compete.

Now, you are in Canada. What will Canada do? Does Canada truly believe the US claims?

This is exactly why I campaigned so hard for Apple Retail Stores in Spain years before they even became an executive idea, much less a physical reality.

I set out the case for retail stores as the only way forward for Apple outside of the US as Apple itself was the only company with the necessary resources to turn things around.

At that time, long established Apple resellers were closing down all over the place and there were a raft of other issues that were hitting Apple head on and not getting resolved.

Distribution of Apple products was centering on small chains who knew they had customers penned in and there were few competitive alternatives. The amount of complaints in the letters section of MacWorld was increasing and on the first internet forums that were just establishing themselves back then. All of the issues in this piece were real issues back then.

Apple countered that there was no easy solution as opening its own stores would put Apple in direct competition with the resellers, to which I countered that the resellers were a huge part of the  problem.

In the end Apple pulled the trigger on Apple Retail Stores and much to our astonishment, they opened in the US first, precisely where they were not needed as much. This was confirmation to many that Apple really wasn't understanding the Mac world outside the US.

Eventually they branched out into foreign markets and their success has been acknowledged but it was a huge struggle to be heard back then and very frustrating to see Apple plod on as if nothing could be done.

Today, with billions to spare Apple could really do much better in developing markets.

racerhomie3 said:

rogifan_new said:

aimbdd said:

hattig said:

5W charging only, in 2019, on an expensive high-end mobile phone?

To 'keep costs down' - when 20W USB C fast chargers come by default now with mid-range Android phones?

Still, there's the wireless charging, maybe Apple considers connected-charging 'legacy' nowadays.

Fast charging at 20w daily isn’t really good for your phones battery. But they could at least include a 7.5 or 10 watt charger. 

I don’t think that’s an issue anymore. I use Apple’s 29w USC-C charger with my iPhone all the time. No problems.

It will definitely affect your battery health in the future. Apple or other companies cannot change battery chemistry. The more the heat ,the faster the battery degrades. Leave your iPhone in a hot car ,to see a real life example. I would suggest ,you only use 10W at the max. Use the 30W charger sparingly.

Huawei actually has changed the chemistry of batteries (three times)  doubling the lifespan and increasing the operational heat limits and charging faster.

This is heat related:

https://www.eenewspower.com/news/breakthrough-high-temperature-graphene-based-lithium-ion-battery-technology#

Currently, the technology is not being used in smartphones AFAIK, although it is possible that some aspects are.

The latest advance however, (Huawei's take on lithium-silicon, revealed late last year) is specifically aimed at the smartphone market.

One of the supposed strong points of SuperCharge (already in use) is precisely heat management and keeping the battery as cool as possible while charging.