avon b7

This is incorrect:

"Huawei's expensive new Mate 20 Pro flagship copies Apple's design and price, but sells in a market where Androids are cheap

Huawei is just now trying to sell devices priced like a Galaxy Note or Apple's iPhone lineup"

Huawei doesn't copy Apple's design or price. It had plus $1,000 smartphones long before the 1,000 dollar iPhone even existed and still has phones that almost double the price of iPhone X. I don't see the Mate 20 camera setup on any iPhone, nor the hidden speaker grill, nor the ribbed finish, nor the curved screen. 

This is also incorrect:

"But despite using the same fab process, Huawei's Kirin 980-powered Mate 20 Pro flagship lags far behind Apple's iPhone XS A12, turning in performance scores well below last year's A11 iPhone X."

Performance of what? A SoC is many things. The Kirin 980 includes modem and wi-fi, both of which are seemingly far ahead of Apple on 'performance'. It also includes the NPU where the Kirin 970 NPU not only performed better than the A11 Neural Engine, but was put to better use throughout the phone. I haven't seen NPU comparisons for K980/A12 yet.

What you are talking about is the cores and Huawei is using the very latest ARM CPU/GPU designs and has more than enough speed.

That said, in spite of being 'slower', the Mate 20 series (and P20 Pro/Mate 10 before it) has managed to 'outperform' Apple literally all over the rest of the phone.

40W wired ultra fast charging (1% in 30 seconds)
15W wireless charging
Reverse charging
Tri Camera
3x optical zoom
5x hybrid zoom
3D object modelling
Cat 21 modem
Ultra fast wi-fi
Dual frequency GPS
AIIS 
Night Mode
Expandable storage
True dual SIM
In screen ultrasonic fingerprint sensor
Wireless desktop mode
Balong 5000 compatibility

The Mate 20 X also uses graphene and vapour chamber cooling. The Mate RS uses micro capsule cooling.

The new iPhone (A12 included) was basically overshadowed in terms of attention even in Apple circles by ... the Apple Watch. 

Speed gives you .... speed. The A11 had plenty. I don't remember anyone saying they noticed a lack of it. The A12 brings even more.

Will most Apple users really notice a dramatic improvement? I very much doubt it. FaceID is faster but no one said it was slow to begin with. Will WhatsApp open faster? 

Phones are more than speed. It's been that way for a few years now. Phones are about other areas. Areas where Apple is painfully lacking right now (see above), especially in terms of innovation.

As Counterpoint recently said, 'Apple has been leapfrogged'.

The Mate 20 Series launched on Tuesday. The new iPhones launched four weeks before. The iPhones will not change for another, and whopping eleven months!

Next up is Honor and the Magic 2 (October 31st) and before you can say 'S10' the P30 will be on us! The bar has been set high and will go far higher before the next iPhone refresh.

And the Mate series is the 'boring' series. LOL.

Apple uses the words 'best', 'fastest', 'most advanced' all over the place but limits comparisons to .... other iPhones!

While we wait for reviews to corroborate what was presented on Tuesday (essential step) it is clear that Huawei has given the Samsung and Apple cages a good rattling by just presenting what they revealed on Tuesday. I say corroboration is essential as Huawei took  only about 5 minutes to claim the Mate 20 Pro opened the top 50 apps from the Play Store far faster than the iPhone Xs Max (A12 and all). That is a performance metric that does matter.

''Performance' (in the context of this article) is the least of Huawei's worries. The goal was to have a well balanced SoC. According to Anandtech, that goal looks to have been largely achieved.

Focusing on 'performance' and simply ignoring the rest, is 'not seeing the forest for the trees'.

Looking ahead, far from rumours of a Kirin 990, rumours swirled in June around a Kirin 1020. That in addition to persistent rumours of an in-house GPU.

Speed itself is simply not enough to be a differentiating factor nowadays, and anyone who thinks otherwise really needs to take a long hard look at what Huawei has put into this new series.

One analyst said Samsung is now in 'full on panic mode'. I think Apple is in a similar situation and needs to shift up a gear. We need a Schiller moment:

'Can't innovate, my ass!'

But please Phil, no cylinder iPhone!

Competition is the only way these technologies can be realised. We all win.

Apple has done an amazing job with the A12. The problem is elsewhere.

As for this piece, something is telling and is summed up here:

https://www.newsweek.com/rise-huawei-how-smartphone-maker-conquering-tech-world-without-us-1176300

Which is basically tied to this in some ways

https://www.newsweek.com/iphone-killer-ditching-apple-new-huawei-p20-pro-887208

That was on a phone launched in March and little has changed since then on the Apple front. Ironic that the author attempts to paint a picture of Huawei being 'a year behind' when, by the time Apple can catch Huawei's Night Mode for example, it will be well over a year behind. And what about the rest?

The next step is to simply see how the Mate 20 holds up in real world use. The proof is always in the pudding and we will have wait. I always take PR and marketing at face value but going by the presentation and early full reviews using pre-production software, things don't look too shabby. We will see.

tzeshan said:

This phone is a fake. The notch is fake. iPhone X, Xs, Xr have notch because of the FaceID things. This phone has no FaceID so it is fake to cheat buyers thinking they are buying the same things on iPhone. 

The Mate 20 Pro has the 3D depth sensing:

Skip to 1:09:43

rogifan_new said:

Wow this site is really obsessed over what the media says about Apple competitors. Why do you care?

AI has a largely healthy attitude to competitors. The problem with this piece, which I had to stop reading because I realised who had penned it, is that the author's obsession with competitors is not healthy IMO.

The Mate 20 notch has far more to do with Sharp or Essential than Apple and is far from resembling a group of dead pixels. LOL.

Notches only exist for ONE reason. To maximise screen ratio. That's why Sharp began toying with the idea.

What you put into them largely determines their size. The notch is NOT an Apple exclusive thing. It never was and still isn't.

As for 3D depth sensing, just a few weeks after Apple announced the iPhone X, Honor took advantage of the Honor View 10 presentation to announce that they were also working on their own solution. A solution that was so well into its development phase that the details could be detailed publicly. Honor even did realtime demos with engineers casually walking around and explaining the the setup to attendees at presentations.

With hindsight, I'm glad they did, as it puts the 'but they imitated Apple' claims into context. Pure nonsense.

In January this year Honor said the system itself would roll when it could be factored into pricing. Until just three weeks ago even Apple had just one such phone. Not casually, its most expensive!

The author seems to think plus $1,000 Android phones are somehow in vogue now, and thanks to Apple!

Huawei has had Porshe Design phones for years now. They had plus $1,000 phones well ahead of Apple.

Pricing is not a problem. You can find Huawei phones over $2,000 if you look.

Finding enough buyers is the question and the answer is that more and more people are buying Android Ultra Premium phones at 1,000 dollars or more.

The point though is that that situation has NOTHING to do with Apple.

Some technologies are expensive. They have to be factored into the price and you can't reasonably pack everything into a handset. It wouldn't make much sense especially as any phone you make will have to be improved upon in the next generation. That's why new features are rolled out progressively and in line with potential demand and at price points to make them affordable to the target audience. The narrative that Android users are somehow cheapskates is simply laughable. There are dirt cheap Android phones on the market. There are also Android phones that cost almost double an iPhone X. They all find buyers and most importantly, at every price point in between and often offering more 'bang for buck' than Apple.

I think the author saw what Huawei put on the table yesterday and simply  had a 'gulp' moment and hence the article.

We'll see how the phones do in the real world but at the very least, and going by just the presentation, the entire industry sat up and took notice.

No one in their right mind would call the Mate 20 series a 'meh' upgrade.

melgross said:

Quite frankly, a lot of this ruling is crap. The EU can’t get it’s act together. It has investment and financial rules that make it almost impossible for anyone there to come up with companies like any of the large USA based companies. It’s interesting that much of what the commission is doing isn’t aimed towards the European companies that do exactly the same thing.

apple was singled out, for example, even though a large number of European companies use Luxembourg in exactly the same way.

Apple wasn't 'singled out' at all, unless being one of over 300 companies means being singled out.

In fact it was US enquiries that prompted the EU to take a closer look at Apple.

"Arizona Republican John McCain castigated Apple as “one of the biggest tax avoiders in America”. Democrat Carl Levin of Michigan peered over the glasses perched on the tip of his nose and said Apple uses “offshore tax strategies whose purpose is tax avoidance, pure and simple”.

And EU companies are  just as likely to be investigated as US companies. The latest is IKEA .


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/meet-the-maxforce-the-eu-team-that-fined-ireland-13bn-over-apple-1.2909027

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

knowitall said:

avon b7 said:

hexclock said:

gatorguy said:

rogifan_new said:

Wow someone here is really worried about Google for some reason. Not sure why.

He used to be obsessed with Microsoft. Now it's Android. 

And that's perfectly OK. IMO no need for personal attacks on forum members who are connected to neither Apple nor Google. I myself am done with any attempt to have a healthy exchange. It's totally unconstructive and only distracting. 

If you weren’t a Mac user in the 90’s you probably don’t have the inate hatred of M$ that many of us do, but similar to a sports rivalry that fades because one of the teams is no longer good, Android has replaced Windows on the hate scale for modern Apple fans. 

But why? Google? I very much doubt it. 

I disliked Microsoft as much as the next guy in the nineties as their monopolistic practices were actively and negatively affecting the the Mac.

Google provided many services that eventually gave users great alternatives. They still do, in a mobile dominated world. Most iOS users actively use those services and users like me use both iOS and Android daily.

And far from hating Android, I prefer my flavour of Android over iOS on a phone.

That’s impossible.

What was the last version of Android you actually used?

My retort;

What was the last version of iOS that you have used?

Unless I'm mistaken, iOS 10.

It's possible that iOS 11 stealth installed itself but I doubt it.

You know, you get the upgrade notification, you choose 'not now' and instead of continuing to the screen as you would expect, you are prompted to enter your passcode.

What is really happening is that you are giving the ok to a delayed stealth upgrade.

Below the passcode request, and not very clearly presented, you have the option to avoid the upgrade altogether.

That's an example of Apple being underhand.