avon b7

chasm said:

To clarify for people who are perhaps just arriving to this story, Apple is appealing this tax bill -- but is paying into the escrow account in the meantime. Should they win their appeal, they will get some or all of that money back (a full victory is extremely unlikely). I'm not sure why Apple is the one having to pay, since it was the government of Ireland that offered the company the "illegal" tax discount. As far as i've been able to discover, there's no evidence Apple coerced a special tax deal out of the Irish government, so not sure why they're on the hook for the whole amount. That said, I'm in favour of multinationals paying their fair share of taxes generally, so I'm hoping that Amazon will be next in the cross-hairs ...

There are a lot of companies in the cross hairs and, although you could be forgiven for thinking they are only US companies from reading some posts here, they aren't. Apple is the biggest in terms of the amounts.

Gatorguy has already pointed out why Apple has to put up the money. 

IIRC the investigation that led to this situation was limited in scope insofar as it could not dig further back than 2010 or 11. Apple's dealings with the Irish government on a tax level go much further back. So far that many people now claim to not remember exactly how the deals came about.

This is an informative read but now isn't accessible without a subscription:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-16/the-inside-story-of-apple-s-14-billion-tax-bill

It gives a bit of background information on Tim Cook's movements in Ireland and his meetings with the parties involved in this case.

I found a full copy in the internet archive:


https://web.archive.org/web/20170205122146/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-16/the-inside-story-of-apple-s-14-billion-tax-bill

MacPro said:

avon b7 said:

racerhomie3 said:

A dead meme. Huawei is more ‘genuine’ !
I guess more genuine in stealing designs.

You guess wrong then.

Huawei is ahead of Apple in many areas. I think we can agree on that even if you do it begrudgingly.

Design and brand perception are important factors and have an influence on sales. Just how much is the real question.

There are some people who rate design very high and wouldn't be seen dead with something that wasn't 'in'. Some see the company itself as a status symbol. Of course, there are others who simply seek value for money on a decent handset. I'm basically in that last group but when you are operating in saturated markets it's wise to try and claw in users from all groups.

I have read about anti Apple sentiment in China flowing onto social networks as a result of the pressure applied to carriers and retailers to keep Huawei's effective presence in the US to virtually zero. I have no idea if it is actually true. I have read two accounts of Tim Cook actually asking for protection from Huawei in the US market at government level. Something I didn't give credence to. If there was an ounce of truth in that it would have been widely reported. However, following the protectionist moves by the US government it has been revealed (a couple of days ago) that Tim Cook and Donald Trump spoke specifically on the China situation (no doubt from an Apple perspective) during their private meeting. Last week we read about a decline of Apple in some of its core EU markets with Huawei showing very strong growth. On Tuesday, Huawei's Honor brand revealed that it's UK sales had increased 100% YoY for Q1. Yesterday, Canalys reported that Apple had fallen to 4th place in Spain (overtaken by Xiaomi) and that Huawei was within one percentage point of taking top spot from Samsung.

These are situations that have an influence on brand perception. Couple that with the fact that the P20 Pro is being hailed as the top smartphone bar none so far for 2018 and that perception could be reinforced and the better Huawei does away from home, the more pronounced that sensation is.

Just curious, where is the history if how these companies developed their technology prior to Apple's iPhone with its years of R&D and amazing paradigm shifting IP.  Is it all a case of 'simultaneous invention' taking place across the globe or like Google, a case of jumping in once the genius is seen and ripping everything off?  Perhaps they had a member of Apple's board in their pay too?

Perhaps we should be looking even deeper than that. It is widely suggested that Apple licences a huge amount of patents from Huawei. So when you talk of prior research development and investment, I hope you are taking that into account, because without paying Huawei for its patents, Apple might not even have a phone to call a phone.

racerhomie3 said:

A dead meme. Huawei is more ‘genuine’ !
I guess more genuine in stealing designs.

You guess wrong then.

Huawei is ahead of Apple in many areas. I think we can agree on that even if you do it begrudgingly.

Design and brand perception are important factors and have an influence on sales. Just how much is the real question.

There are some people who rate design very high and wouldn't be seen dead with something that wasn't 'in'. Some see the company itself as a status symbol. Of course, there are others who simply seek value for money on a decent handset. I'm basically in that last group but when you are operating in saturated markets it's wise to try and claw in users from all groups.

I have read about anti Apple sentiment in China flowing onto social networks as a result of the pressure applied to carriers and retailers to keep Huawei's effective presence in the US to virtually zero. I have no idea if it is actually true. I have read two accounts of Tim Cook actually asking for protection from Huawei in the US market at government level. Something I didn't give credence to. If there was an ounce of truth in that it would have been widely reported. However, following the protectionist moves by the US government it has been revealed (a couple of days ago) that Tim Cook and Donald Trump spoke specifically on the China situation (no doubt from an Apple perspective) during their private meeting. Last week we read about a decline of Apple in some of its core EU markets with Huawei showing very strong growth. On Tuesday, Huawei's Honor brand revealed that it's UK sales had increased 100% YoY for Q1. Yesterday, Canalys reported that Apple had fallen to 4th place in Spain (overtaken by Xiaomi) and that Huawei was within one percentage point of taking top spot from Samsung.

These are situations that have an influence on brand perception. Couple that with the fact that the P20 Pro is being hailed as the top smartphone bar none so far for 2018 and that perception could be reinforced and the better Huawei does away from home, the more pronounced that sensation is.

k2kw said:

tmay said:

elijahg said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

Apple's larger spread seems to be finding takers at every entry point. 25% went to SE, iPhone 6 and iPhone 6s. That's a lot of demand for cheaper options as well as the higher options. The larger spread may be paying off.

Huawei up over 30% and without including P20 series phones or next week's Honor 10 launch. They look good for the current quarter.

More worrying are the sharp drops in three of Apple's major European markets.

Yet the iPhone X was "the best-shipping smartphone in the region". Your concern troll is showing. Going to have another day of pushing FUD to make Huawei look good?

Oh no, he wasn't 100% overpraising Apple, he must be a troll. Trolling goes both ways, incessant and blind praise of Apple is as much trolling as is constant bashing. By that metric, you're a troll. 

I think iPhones are still too expensive. Everyone I've spoken to about the X says it's way too expensive, and people already think the non-flagships are pretty steep. I have plenty Apple-toting friends, and I am a self-confessed fanboy. But even I can see Apple gear really is getting very expensive. Cook's Apple seems to be all about raising prices, I don't know any product that's gone down in price in Cook's reign. The increasing service revenue should be offsetting the phone prices, not adding to them. Unfortunately this is reminiscent of the early 90's Apple; ballooning SKU numbers, not giving people what they want, software and hardware bugs creeping in whilst prices edge up. Apple's obviously in a much better position now, but even so. I don't want history to repeat itself.

You need to follow his comments over time here at AI. He is a shill for Huawei; proven by his many pro Huawei posts. That is a fact.

He spreads FUD about Apple. That is also a fact. He did so today with his first comment, "worrisome" which had no basis in fact. I believe that he does that because his team hasn't reached Apple's success. His metric is unit sales. Please note that Huawei's  growth of 38 percent in unit sales has added a mere 1.7% in revenue gains. Is that in any way a quantifiable success? Apple's slight dip in unit sales is likely driven by an increase in ASP. Which is the better business model?

Am I blindly praising Apple, as you have now stated, and am I a troll for responding to Avon b7's bullshit? Perhaps you should be a bit more discerning in what you are reading and posting. My comments stand on their own, and you are free to continue to check my history if you think that I am a troll.


 

Huawei's  growth of 38 percent in unit sales has added a mere 1.7% in revenue gains
This is just another sign of dumping by a Chinese company as has been shown many times before. Now I am glad the U.S. kept Huawei. I am so tired of reading this Huawei crap by Avon all the time. Why did Golden State win the 2017? Huawei increased it marketshare. Why did the French Revolution take place - Huawei was not available in France at the time. I feel like I just stuck in HuaweiInsider. Quite opposite of encouraging me to ever look at Huawei if it showed up in the US, I'm quite disposed against it. TrollFail.

That is exactly the kind of comment that needs correcting so here we go yet again:

Apple's business is still dominated by mobile.

It has a yearly release cycle that obviously leads to a yearly spike in performance. People hold off before a refresh, then buy en mass when it happens. Looking at the results from that spike, just one quarter (or the one immediately after it) provides a somewhat distorted view.

Do you agree with that? You should.

It is far more reliable to gauge performance YoY (full years). You should agree with that too.

So here is Huawei's audited results summary direct from the horse's mouth (my bold):

"Shenzhen, China, March 30, 2018] Huawei released its audited financial results for 2017, reporting solid business growth. The company's total annual revenue was CNY603.6 billion (US$92.5 billion based on year-end exchange rates), an increase of 15.7% over 2016 ."Net profits were CNY47.5 billion (US$7.3 billion), an increase of 28.1% year-on-year."

http://www.huawei.com/en/press-events/news/2018/3/Huawei-2017-Annual-Report

Now, the 1.7% figure comes from a research estimate for one quarter in one region and the report made it crystal clear that it doesn't include the P20 Series models. Models that appear to be breaking records. 

And from that, you jump in feet first with your 'dumping' claim. You made a mistake. I can live with that but I would like to point out that in a previous post I went out of my way to point out that Huawei increased prices (yes, in Europe too) across many models by around 100€ last year. They have also made a concerted effort to move into the premium segment. 'Dumping' should be the last thing on your mind.

Your comment on 'Huaweiinsider' is also completely incorrect. Appleinsider dedicates far more articles to Samsung and Google than any of my contributions to threads here.

For starters, I do not even participate in the vast majority of threads here. Your argument virtually dies right there but on top of that, there is a lot of pure misinformation that appears in the forums that I just let go.

However, there needs to be some balance in things so readers don't get mislead.

Hence this post that was only necessary because you put 'dumping' into the soup. 

I support competition. Apple biting into Samsung, Huawei biting into Apple and Xiaomi biting into Huawei etc.

I don't care if sales, revenues or profits take a hit. I care about what reaches the consumer and having choice. There is a lot of quality out there. Far more than ever before. There is crap too, I don't deny it but has that ever not been the case?

tmay said:

elijahg said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

Apple's larger spread seems to be finding takers at every entry point. 25% went to SE, iPhone 6 and iPhone 6s. That's a lot of demand for cheaper options as well as the higher options. The larger spread may be paying off.

Huawei up over 30% and without including P20 series phones or next week's Honor 10 launch. They look good for the current quarter.

More worrying are the sharp drops in three of Apple's major European markets.

Yet the iPhone X was "the best-shipping smartphone in the region". Your concern troll is showing. Going to have another day of pushing FUD to make Huawei look good?

Oh no, he wasn't 100% overpraising Apple, he must be a troll. Trolling goes both ways, incessant and blind praise of Apple as equal a troll as constant bashing. By that metric, you're a troll. 

I think iPhones are still too expensive. Everyone I've spoken to about the X says it's way too expensive, and people already think the non-flagships are pretty steep. I have plenty Apple-toting friends, and I am a self-confessed fanboy. But even I can see Apple gear really is getting very expensive. Cook's Apple seems to be all about raising prices, I don't know any product that's gone down in price in Cook's reign. The increasing service revenue should be offsetting the phone prices, not adding to them. Unfortunately this is reminiscent of the early 90's Apple; ballooning SKU numbers, not giving people what they want, software and hardware bugs creeping in whilst prices edge up. Apple's obviously in a much better position now, but even so. I don't want history to repeat itself.

Everybody that you talk to says that the X is way too expensive, but the data keeps demonstrating how popular the iPhone X is.

Hence, while Apple showed a 5% decrease in units, I'm guessing that their ASP actually increases. You do know that generating revenue is what companies do? Seems like a proper strategy for Apple.

You really should read the report summary.

The iPhone X has only been available for two full quarters. I think it's completely logical that it sold less in its second pop and even less in its third pop. Don't you see it that way or do you think it will somehow buck the trend in Q3? It definitely puts your 'popular' opinion into context.

That's not to take anything away from it. It's being realistic.

On the other hand, the two year old phones are still pulling in 25% of sales (in Europe, not underdeveloped areas).

That 25% will pull down on your ASP line though and probably overall industry profits if these numbers are representative.

It's basically what the report is saying.