avon b7

red oak said:

avon b7 said:

red oak said:

krawall said:

I think it's time for the gloves to come off. honestly... this is a disgrace. How long are you guys across the pond (westwards, to be clear) watching this disaster unfolding?

Yes the US are very important for the whole world's economy, but there's limits to everything. We should stop this appeasing and just call out things what they are. The US government decided that diplomacy is no longer "in", so the rest of the world should not be trying to uphold principles towards the US that are not reciprocated. 

“Time for the gloves to come off”.    LoL.  The EU has no technology.    Zero. Nothing.   That is why it spends all its time with bureaucracy  and trying to fine everyone 

Go ahead and “take your gloves off”  LoL 

Technology isn't everything.

There is an EU document out there from the pandemic period analysing strategic dependencies between the EU and other countries/trading blocs.

The US was dependent on the EU for over 260 products. 

The EU was dependent on the US for 15.

Areas where the EU was ahead included Advanced manufacturing, IoT, security, advanced materials, photonics and active ingredients for the pharmaceutical industry. 

Most of that happens to involve 'technology'. 

“An EU document out there”.   LoL 

The EU is a leader in NONE of those examples you give.   NONE.    You really think the EU leads the US in advanced materials?    What are you smoking.   I’m surprised you did not list Spotify as your leading tech company 

Well, I'm not going to go out of my way to locate it. I have better things to do. I read it during the pandemic. I've posted some of the things I remember from the document, which was an official EU document.

And I didn't even mention 'leader'. The document was on strategic dependencies. 

As for 'believing', forgive me for siding with the EU when it comes to official documents.

I just did a very quick Google on photonics where it appears the EU is second only to China.

This explains why the EU sees photonics as a cornerstone technology;

https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/policy/communities-and-networks/s3-community-of-practice/partnership_industrial_mod_photonic_en#:~:text=These sectors are critical for,leader in research and innovation.

anonymouse said:

avon b7 said:

Technology isn't everything.

[...]

Most of that happens to involve 'technology'. 

Well, make up your mind, which is it?

My mind is clear. Very clear. Let me repeat:

Technology isn't everything.

However, of the examples I mentioned, many just 'happened' to involve technology.

That's why I used the verb 'happen'.

In response to the claim that the EU had 'Zero. Nothing.' in technology.

It clearly does, even though 'technology' isn't everything. 

red oak said:

krawall said:

I think it's time for the gloves to come off. honestly... this is a disgrace. How long are you guys across the pond (westwards, to be clear) watching this disaster unfolding?

Yes the US are very important for the whole world's economy, but there's limits to everything. We should stop this appeasing and just call out things what they are. The US government decided that diplomacy is no longer "in", so the rest of the world should not be trying to uphold principles towards the US that are not reciprocated. 

“Time for the gloves to come off”.    LoL.  The EU has no technology.    Zero. Nothing.   That is why it spends all its time with bureaucracy  and trying to fine everyone 

Go ahead and “take your gloves off”  LoL 

Technology isn't everything.

There is an EU document out there from the pandemic period analysing strategic dependencies between the EU and other countries/trading blocs.

The US was dependent on the EU for over 260 products. 

The EU was dependent on the US for 15.

Areas where the EU was ahead included Advanced manufacturing, IoT, security, advanced materials, photonics and active ingredients for the pharmaceutical industry. 

Most of that happens to involve 'technology'. 

shrave10 said:

tiredskills said:

shrave10 said:

Appeal to what?  A kangaroo court that always fines US companies guilty and EU companies innocent?  

Do you really believe that the US news bubble that you live in would report on the EU Commission fining EU companies?  Newsflash, they have done so many times, you are just ignorant of it.

US does not have any organization that can fine companies 10% of global turnover before any court appeals are done.  If the EU is not a definition of a kangaroo court, I don't know what is

Who needs fines when you have tariffs? 

No need for investigations, findings or rulings! Just an executive order and a giant size sharpie pen! 

shrave10 said:

avon b7 said:

Apple has choice. Comply or leave are two simple options. If it wants to drag its feet on compliance (in spite of extensive direct communication with the EU) it will simply run into higher fines along the way for 'malicious' compliance. 

Apple has another choice: stay in EU, pay their random b.s. fines then recover the fines when the Whitehouse raises tariffs on EU to cover it.

As you have seen, if the White House applies tariffs to the EU, the EU will apply reciprocal tariffs to the US. 

The more Apple 'plays' the EU, the higher the fines will be and, as Tesla has seen, there is the likelihood of users rejecting Apple products. 

There is also the risk of widespread rejection of US Big Tech.

As I write, there are numerous pan EU projects underway to reduce the influence of US Big Tech in the EU. 

The French and the Germans are moving to create Docs which could be an alternative to collaborative online document creation (Google Docs). There are also initiatives for Google Maps alternatives, cloud storage, the EU processor initiative etc. 

The American Way (if imposed the way Trump is trying to do things) will backfire. 

Just like it backfired against China in 2019. It simply pushed China to de-Americanise and accelerate their existing plans. Fast forward to 2025 and, as we are seeing, the same 2019 tactics have failed abysmally.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/huawei-replaces-13000-parts-redesigns-4000-circuit-boards-to-beat-us-sanctions

Most of those 13,000 items were coming from US companies and generating billions in revenue for them. Now those revenues are going elsewhere.

Other Chinese companies are doing the same. 

EUV was a sticking point and here Trump's victim was ASML but now, just a few short years after (and billions lost for ASML) rumours are pointing to this:

https://www.lightreading.com/5g/huawei-might-finally-have-a-chinese-fix-for-high-end-chips

Nvidia says it could be hit with $5B in lost revenues in China due to Trump's restrictions. China will seek (and find) home-grown substitutes to Nvidia products. 

It's not looking great, is it?