tjwolf

StrangeDays said:

tjwolf said:

...

Guess what’s printed on every single paper check you write? Your bank account and routing number. You trust all the people you send checks to with this info already. The folks processing your paper checks could keep your numbers. So what’s different?

The paranoia is great. Don’t tell people using PayPal, or every single bank’s billpay system, or the IRS, or any of the major facets of life where people use bank account and routing numbers.

As always, if there’s an error the banks are happy to correct it.

A paper check is vulnerable only while in transit since it [usually] gets destroyed once cashed.  Even if the recipient is has nefarious intent, they can't do anything with the bank info, since you didn't agree to have them take stuff out of your account electronically.

Letting a payee you've authorized to withdraw money electronically from your account store that account information permanently, leads to a permanent vulnerability.  Sure, when my mortgage bank once accidentally took out my mortgage payment twice, they corrected their mistake.  But they didn't pay me back the penalty I had to pay my bank for unknowingly writing a rubber check.

Sure, I'm paranoid.  But I have reason to be.

MplsP said:

tjwolf said:

I've had the Apple Card for 2 weeks now.  Today I began to wonder how I'd pay it come September 30th and found out something that wasn't made very clear during sign-up and which you might find useful to know: you pretty much have to either give out your bank routing #/account # or pay with a debit card or with Apple Cash!  I didn't want to do that, so I contacted Apple Card support (right from within the Wallet - nice!) and eventually spoke to a Goldman Sachs supervisor.  I asked him where my account info will be kept - on my device or on Goldman servers.  Answer: on Goldman Sachs servers (encrypted of course).  I told him that I had prior bad experiences in which a company withdrew (accidentally) more money from my account than it was supposed to, leading me to write a check that bounced - and pay a penalty.  And, besides, I didn't think it was very secure - especially for a card that's supposed to be ultra secure - to keep such information on a server where it could potentially be hacked.  I insisted, therefore, on a mailing address.  Which he gave me - but which is not given anywhere in the Wallet app AFAIK.  In case someone wants to pay their CC using online bill pay like me, here it is:

Goldman Sachs Bank USA
Salt Lake City Branch Lockbox 6112
PO Box 7247
Philadelphia, PA  19170-6112

That address seems awfully weird, but that's what I was given.  Anyway, I thought about it some more and I think what I'll actually do is simply open another account with my bank and when I want to pay my Apple Card, I'll just put enough money in it to cover my card payment.  I'll enter that bank account # into Apple Card for payment.

Automated transfers are, in general more secure than mailing a check (as well as cheaper and quicker to process.) I'm not surprised that this is the expected way to pay. You may be able to set up bill pay through your bank, though.

To setup bill pay you need a mailing address.  Bill pay generally does a paper check first and, if there's an electronic relationship between the bank and the payee, that gets used subsequently. I got the mailing address from the support person precisely because I wanted to setup bill pay.  While automated transfers are more secure and faster, if you give the payee control over your bank account info, you invite the type of accidents I described.   I really don't understand why Apple couldn't store my bank info in its on-device "Secure Enclave" and only pass it to Goldman when a payment needs to be made.  There's really no reason why Goldman should need to store it on their servers permanently.  Not only does that allow the sort of accidents I mentioned, it also can lead to hacking exposures.  For a card that's supposed to be so secure, this is a weakness I didn't expect.

I've had the Apple Card for 2 weeks now.  Today I began to wonder how I'd pay it come September 30th and found out something that wasn't made very clear during sign-up and which you might find useful to know: you pretty much have to either give out your bank routing #/account # or pay with a debit card or with Apple Cash!  I didn't want to do that, so I contacted Apple Card support (right from within the Wallet - nice!) and eventually spoke to a Goldman Sachs supervisor.  I asked him where my account info will be kept - on my device or on Goldman servers.  Answer: on Goldman Sachs servers (encrypted of course).  I told him that I had prior bad experiences in which a company withdrew (accidentally) more money from my account than it was supposed to, leading me to write a check that bounced - and pay a penalty.  And, besides, I didn't think it was very secure - especially for a card that's supposed to be ultra secure - to keep such information on a server where it could potentially be hacked.  I insisted, therefore, on a mailing address.  Which he gave me - but which is not given anywhere in the Wallet app AFAIK.  In case someone wants to pay their CC using online bill pay like me, here it is:

Folio said:

Not yet signed up, though 99 percent sure I will. My one concern is TMI. I don't want my balance info etc in my face everyday. I'm hoping that's not the case. That it can be as unobtrusive as the existing cards in my Apple wallet, if I wish. And balance notification pops up on due date; rest of time only pull, not push.

When you open the wallet, the Apple Card shows like any other CC.  No balance info "staring you in the face".  But if you tap on it, you will see that dreaded balance and all sorts of other useful details about your spending.

bradchatellier said:

Mine is scheduled to arrive in today's mail.

One thing I'm curious about.  Is it possible to use this card for autopay, like paying my light bill each month?  I know it can generate a one time, one transaction credit card number, but will this number work again in the future, or will I always have to enter it manually?

I have the card.  It has a real credit card number that you can access from within the wallet app.  I've already used it extensively for Amazon purchases (since Amazon doesn't accept ApplePay).  I don't know anything about the one-time cc# you're speaking of, but if the one in the wallet does get compromised, you can request a new one from within the wallet app and from that point on, the old one will no longer work.