mac_128

Christopher Pelham said:

A virtual trackpad or a small trackpad in the keyboard would make certain actions and navigations so much more efficient.

Apple does offer a virtual trackpad, but it needs some work. Here’s Apple’s actual marketing copy from their website about the keyboard:

It works like a computer. And in ways most computers can’t. iPad Pro works with a keyboard when you need one. The full‑size onscreen keyboard lets you respond to an email or write a paper, and it even acts as a trackpad. And if you want a full‑size physical keyboard, just attach the Smart Keyboard Folio for a great typing experience and front and back protection.

Notice they tout the importance of having a trackpad on the onscreen keyboard, yet don’t address it with the physical keyboard. Moreover, this bit of marketing speaks directly to the semantic debate being waged here about what constitutes a computer. This paragraph directly conflates the word computer, with the ability to type on a keyboard and use a trackpad.

lorin schultz said:

macplusplus said:

lorin schultz said:

lowededwookie said:
[...] I can edit video on an iPhone just as easily as using iMovie on the Mac

"Easily," yes. Accurately, no. Fine adjustments are difficult using a finger on a small screen.

There is Pencil for that.

He said he can edit video on an IPHONE. Did you just overlook that or does the iPhone actually support the Pencil now?

macplusplus said:
If you'd watched the Keynote you'd know or you already know that the reason to attach a 4K monitor to iPad Pro is to follow iMovie edits in real time 4K, since the iPad's own display is not 4K.

I did watch the Keynote and I didn't get that impression. To me it looked like just using one possible application among many as an example. Assuming I misunderstood and that really is Apple's sole intent, it seems like a whole lotta tech, effort, and expense for not much payoff.

Your recollection is correct — @macplusplus is wrong as usual. This is from the keynote, an Apple marketing still which inadvertently demonstrates exactly what’s wrong with not having a pointing device. Notice where her eyes are looking. Her only choice is to keep shifting her eyes from the larger display where her attention should be, to the iPad to confirm her fingers are positioned correctly for what she wants to select, then back to the display to view it. That’s not a productive solution. Yet, Apple clearly intends this as a use case with an external display.

macplusplus said:

GeorgeBMac said:

macplusplus said:

mac_128 said:

macplusplus said:

mac_128 said:

crosslad said:

Here’s how to solve your problems:

1 External Drive support - use a WiFi Drive
2 Lack if mouse - use the Apple Pencil
3 Headphone jack - use a dongle or a device with a usb c jack. 3.5 headphone jacks have gone from mobile devices
4 Overpowered - come on, rendering a video in less than half the time is a problem. It will also future proof the iPad. 
5 Storage - see 1

1. I agree. Or the cloud.
2. Pencil is the worst possible mouse substitute I can imagine, as not only must one move their hands from the keyboard to touch the screen, but then they have to pick up and put down a pencil, with no support to stabilize it in mid-air.

But the mouse causes Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. I haven’t heard of anyone getting carpal tunnel syndrome caused by the pencil usage.

Pencil is the worst possible mouse substitute when playing Call of Duty. But on that, the mouse is not the best input device neither, there are game controllers for that. Yet I don't see people discussing "mouse or game controller" in gaming forums, why are we into such a pointless discussion here?

Pencil can do everything that a mouse can do and even more. The mouse is a mechanical pointing device of the 1960s. Pencil is a 21st century technology and there is state of the art engineering in it, encompassing both the display and the device. Pencil is not a stylus, a stylus is a stick compared to Pencil. What the mouse interface provided and the touch interface couldn't provide was the precision data selection. With Pencil, precision data selection is possible even better than the best mouse or trackpad can provide.

You’re taking my response out of context of the article to which we’ve all been replying. The Pencil is great for fine tuned selection and editing directly on an iPad laying flat on a table. It’s terrible for an iPad propped up on a keyboard stand. It’s terrible when using an external monitor. Heck, even if the iPad is laying flat and the user is merely typing on it, having to take their hands of the keyboard to pick up and put down a Pencil is still worse than using a mouse. And forget about using it while sitting on a couch as one might with a MacBook. That’s where a trackpad rules the day. Apple has added a virtual trackpad, but that’s far from ideal, even on native Apple apps, but still better than the Pencil which you’d have to pull off its magnetic docking perch, holding the iPad with one hand, and then reattaching it, before continuing with the typing. So in general I’d say a mouse or trackpad would still be better for most everything in daily computer use, aside from drawing, editing, and taking notes.

macplusplus said:

lorin schultz said:

lowededwookie said:
[...] I can edit video on an iPhone just as easily as using iMovie on the Mac

"Easily," yes. Accurately, no. Fine adjustments are difficult using a finger on a small screen.

There is Pencil for that.

lorin schultz said:

Besides, even putting all that aside, the iPad Pro's marketing includes using the keyboard stand and an external monitor. Both make touch a less effective control method than using a mouse.

If you'd watched the Keynote you'd know or you already know that the reason to attach a 4K monitor to iPad Pro is to follow iMovie edits in real time 4K, since the iPad's own display is not 4K. The actual iPad page on Apple's site mentions only "USB-C for ... external display" and says nothing about that external display. There is no point to present it as the main "computer display" of iPad.

So the user has to continually shift his eyes back and forth from the iPad to the screen, as well as take their hands off the keyboard, to lift a Pencil to the vertical screen, and hover it unsupported in midair to make detailed selections, then put the pencil down to continue using the keyboard; all the while shifting their eyes from the iPad to the 4K monitor and back as they make the fine adjustments and make sure the Pencil is where they think it’s supposed to be on the iPad? Doesn’t really sound more efficient than a mouse ... in fact it sounds a lot worse, even if Apple only intended the external monitor to be used solely as a 4K reference display and not a workspace.

All your long anecdotal narration is irrelevant. The iPad is not for desktop usage. If you don't want to leave your comfy desk get a laptop. Neither the folding keyboard nor the 4K display are main components of iPad Pro. The monitor is there only to watch 4K iMovie edits. Besides that there is absolutely no point in buying a 4K monitor for the iPad Pro.

OK if your point is to get a trackpad on that foldable keyboard, then this is not possible: 1) How will you power it? 2) What if people with disabilities or long fingernails want to attach a mouse to that keyboard? How will you power both? 3) There is no pointer in iOS. Your request requires the whole UI to be re-written for the mouse interface. That won't happen, buy a Surface it has both touch and mouse. I am off that mouse discussion.

1) It's not anecdotal.   Its reality.  But it is true that the iPad is obviously not capable of desktop usage -- thus this discussion triggered by Apple's contention that it is a laptop/desktop replacement.  Most agree that it COULD be, but isn't.

2) Your second paragraph is just throwing out objections that have no basis in reality.

- How will you power it?   The same way bluetooth keyboards and mice are powered now.  Or, via the smart connector.   That problem was solved years ago.

- What about people with long fingernails?   -- They will do the same as they do today

- The entire UI needs to be rewritten:   That just isn't true.  Not by a long shot.  iOS already has a multiple pointers -- the finger is one, the two finger touch on the iPad works as another.

Do not hold your breath. Apple won't make a Surface clone, do not try to sell a Surface to the Mac community. TC is very resolute about that: no toaster-fridges.

With all the battery enclosed in that mouse-trackpad-keyboard with F keys combo, and the power supply required to recharge it, and the headphone/micro jack (you cannot omit that) and the associated DA converter, keyboard lights (otherwise how will you know Wi Fi is on or off?) palm rest (your wrists must get support from somewhere, you cannot hold them raised too long) you get half a netbook. Continue with your creative mind exercises but I am done with that.

With any luck then Apple will stop marketing the iPad as a Surface, or at least a laptop/desktop replacement.

By the way, you do realize the iPad has a DA converter in it to power those four speakers, even without the headphone jack, right? But thanks for the amusing, nonsensical rants.

Worse yet, my iPad doesn’t have the notch, yet they’ve moved the status bar info around. The time is now all the way on the left corner. Meanwhile my SE, which also does not have the notch, the time appears top center where it always did. No consistency.

macplusplus said:

mac_128 said:

crosslad said:

Here’s how to solve your problems:

1 External Drive support - use a WiFi Drive
2 Lack if mouse - use the Apple Pencil
3 Headphone jack - use a dongle or a device with a usb c jack. 3.5 headphone jacks have gone from mobile devices
4 Overpowered - come on, rendering a video in less than half the time is a problem. It will also future proof the iPad. 
5 Storage - see 1

1. I agree. Or the cloud.
2. Pencil is the worst possible mouse substitute I can imagine, as not only must one move their hands from the keyboard to touch the screen, but then they have to pick up and put down a pencil, with no support to stabilize it in mid-air.

But the mouse causes Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. I haven’t heard of anyone getting carpal tunnel syndrome caused by the pencil usage.

Pencil is the worst possible mouse substitute when playing Call of Duty. But on that, the mouse is not the best input device neither, there are game controllers for that. Yet I don't see people discussing "mouse or game controller" in gaming forums, why are we into such a pointless discussion here?

Pencil can do everything that a mouse can do and even more. The mouse is a mechanical pointing device of the 1960s. Pencil is a 21st century technology and there is state of the art engineering in it, encompassing both the display and the device. Pencil is not a stylus, a stylus is a stick compared to Pencil. What the mouse interface provided and the touch interface couldn't provide was the precision data selection. With Pencil, precision data selection is possible even better than the best mouse or trackpad can provide.

You’re taking my response out of context of the article to which we’ve all been replying. The Pencil is great for fine tuned selection and editing directly on an iPad laying flat on a table. It’s terrible for an iPad propped up on a keyboard stand. It’s terrible when using an external monitor. Heck, even if the iPad is laying flat and the user is merely typing on it, having to take their hands of the keyboard to pick up and put down a Pencil is still worse than using a mouse. And forget about using it while sitting on a couch as one might with a MacBook. That’s where a trackpad rules the day. Apple has added a virtual trackpad, but that’s far from ideal, even on native Apple apps, but still better than the Pencil which you’d have to pull off its magnetic docking perch, holding the iPad with one hand, and then reattaching it, before continuing with the typing. So in general I’d say a mouse or trackpad would still be better for most everything in daily computer use, aside from drawing, editing, and taking notes.

macplusplus said:

lorin schultz said:

lowededwookie said:
[...] I can edit video on an iPhone just as easily as using iMovie on the Mac

"Easily," yes. Accurately, no. Fine adjustments are difficult using a finger on a small screen.

There is Pencil for that.

lorin schultz said:

Besides, even putting all that aside, the iPad Pro's marketing includes using the keyboard stand and an external monitor. Both make touch a less effective control method than using a mouse.

If you'd watched the Keynote you'd know or you already know that the reason to attach a 4K monitor to iPad Pro is to follow iMovie edits in real time 4K, since the iPad's own display is not 4K. The actual iPad page on Apple's site mentions only "USB-C for ... external display" and says nothing about that external display. There is no point to present it as the main "computer display" of iPad.

So the user has to continually shift his eyes back and forth from the iPad to the screen, as well as take their hands off the keyboard, to lift a Pencil to the vertical screen, and hover it unsupported in midair to make detailed selections, then put the pencil down to continue using the keyboard; all the while shifting their eyes from the iPad to the 4K monitor and back as they make the fine adjustments and make sure the Pencil is where they think it’s supposed to be on the iPad? Doesn’t really sound more efficient than a mouse ... in fact it sounds a lot worse, even if Apple only intended the external monitor to be used solely as a 4K reference display and not a workspace.