dysamoria

OctoMonkey said:

wd4fsu said:

dysamoria said:

The anti-worker hostility shown here is callous, presumptuous, and generally appalling. None of you have any idea what any of these employees’ lives are like.

The reason Apple wants to force every worker into being on site for a certain percentage of time probably has a lot more to do with making sure their insanely expensive building/campus isn’t sitting empty, because that would be embarrassing for a company that cares a lot about their image.

It’s been noted that people don’t like working there. Open floor plans and glass walls/doors suck for actual humans and productivity. The main building is like the Powermac G4 cube and the trashcan Mac Pro: all form; poorly-considered function.

Then there’s the basic fact that the 40-hour workweek and officespace culture is just plain unhealthy.

Instead of being bitter about what you see as “entitled” employees who should get shit on just the same as you do, maybe think about trying to raise the bar for EVERYONE (which includes yourselves). Stop licking the corporate boot and acting like you’re living vicariously through the boot wearers.

Wow.  I certainly hope your opinion isn't widespread.  It would be cancerous. 

Also, I suppose you've been to Apple Park since you commented on it.... I found it a very welcoming environment in which to work.   There are many places where employees can run into each other, just like Jobs envisioned.  And the amenities are second to none... it's a great place to work.   I can't believe our opinions of the same place are so different.

Marxism IS like a disease, the more you are exposed to it the more likely you will succumb to it.  It is frightening to think people believe such stuff, but those people probably find it equally frightening when somebody doesn't.  It really is a sad statement as to the direction of this country.  It really does sadden me when I read tripe like what dysamoria wrote...  and calling wd4fsu bitter is like the pot calling the kettle black.

Read the text that’s in front of you and stop inventing things I never said. I never addressed wd4fsu directly (until my quote reply of his quote reply of me). I never said he was bitter. I was directing that “bitterness” comment at the anti-worker commentators, of which there are many examples in this thread.

Also: I’ve never read Marx. Marx himself has said that Marxism isn’t his creation. You sound like a Cold War propagandist. Contextually ridiculous reference to Marxism, & throwing FUD, as an ad hominem attack, rather than any substantive argument.

Cold War propaganda was bad for everyone, but it is also well out of date; yet people keep parroting it today. Some of the people parroting the propaganda weren’t even born until after the Cold War ended. It’s just mindless nationalism.

THAT is what’s truly frightening.

Take an honest look in the mirror, and then re-read everything with critical thinking skills switched on.

wd4fsu said:

dysamoria said:

The anti-worker hostility shown here is callous, presumptuous, and generally appalling. None of you have any idea what any of these employees’ lives are like.

The reason Apple wants to force every worker into being on site for a certain percentage of time probably has a lot more to do with making sure their insanely expensive building/campus isn’t sitting empty, because that would be embarrassing for a company that cares a lot about their image.

It’s been noted that people don’t like working there. Open floor plans and glass walls/doors suck for actual humans and productivity. The main building is like the Powermac G4 cube and the trashcan Mac Pro: all form; poorly-considered function.

Then there’s the basic fact that the 40-hour workweek and officespace culture is just plain unhealthy.

Instead of being bitter about what you see as “entitled” employees who should get shit on just the same as you do, maybe think about trying to raise the bar for EVERYONE (which includes yourselves). Stop licking the corporate boot and acting like you’re living vicariously through the boot wearers.

Wow.  I certainly hope your opinion isn't widespread.  It would be cancerous. 

Also, I suppose you've been to Apple Park since you commented on it.... I found it a very welcoming environment in which to work.   There are many places where employees can run into each other, just like Jobs envisioned.  And the amenities are second to none... it's a great place to work.   I can't believe our opinions of the same place are so different.

Thanks for your reply.

Cancerous? Which part?? Treating human beings as people in a society instead of as a means to an end? Huh. That’s ... disturbing. 11 other people liked my post, but I’m not sure that’s enough for it to be cancerous... Maybe I am missing your target with the “cancerous” comment.

I’ve never been to Apple’s main campus. I’d happily visit it, but I don’t think that’ll ever happen. I have commented based on the reports of employees who’ve been written about in articles on this site (and elsewhere) in the past. If you found it a lovely place, that’s great for you. Did you work there?

I personally wouldn’t work for Apple, even if I had some value to them (and clearly QA is of no  value to this current version of the company), because the corporate culture is absolutely wrong for me.

Frankly, it’s creepy just talking to their support people (for whom I actively feel bad when I try to put myself in their shoes). The scripting is more Uncanny Valley than most others; it stands out as being very Apple, in a bad way (I get that they’re going for a sympathetic but corporate-friendly tone, and it misses sympathy by a mile while sounding creepily under the control of authoritarianism).

Then there’s the weird combo of selective Puritanism mixed in with the public progressivism.

No. Very much NOPE.

But that’s how I feel about *most* corporations at this point, so, take my Apple commentary in the appropriate context: Maybe Apple are a better employer than many. Maybe even better than most. I’m not saying Apple is particularly horrific, or even particularly egregious. I don’t think they’re an evil company; not by a long shot (though terribly misguided in several ways, currently). That’s one of the reasons I stick with them for my computing needs: the alternatives are worse corporate cultures.

(and this part is for everyone)

The anti-worker commentators here keep trying to demonstrate fealty to Apple; acting as defenders of a trillion-dollar corporation that doesn’t need the defense. They’re yelling at me for saying Apple is anti-worker, which I never said. I was clearly directing the “anti-worker” comment at the *commentators*... 🤷🏽‍♂️ What can I say to correct a misunderstanding that comes from people’s unwillingness to understand...??

davgreg said:

Tell them this plainly:
There are more where you came from, conform to policy or look for work elsewhere and do not expect a positive reference.

I work in the Medical field and we have people fighting mandates to be vaccinated. We would rather work short handed than carry lug-heads like this.

That’s false equivalence.

jimh2 said:

When someone threatens to quit you tell them to resign or be fired for insubordination. If that will not work institute a substantial pay cut to force them out. 

There is s book about these types of employees who rock the boat and create malcontent. It is called “Who Moved My Chese”. Letting this type of attitude go will lead to more problems. 

You sound like the exact kind of employer or middle-management that every worker should avoid... or you sound like someone who would like to BE that type...

hexclock said:

dysamoria said:

The anti-worker hostility shown here is callous, presumptuous, and generally appalling. None of you have any idea what any of these employees’ lives are like.

The reason Apple wants to force every worker into being on site for a certain percentage of time probably has a lot more to do with making sure their insanely expensive building/campus isn’t sitting empty, because that would be embarrassing for a company that cares a lot about their image.

It’s been noted that people don’t like working there. Open floor plans and glass walls/doors suck for actual humans and productivity. The main building is like the Powermac G4 cube and the trashcan Mac Pro: all form; poorly-considered function.

Then there’s the basic fact that the 40-hour workweek and officespace culture is just plain unhealthy.

Instead of being bitter about what you see as “entitled” employees who should get shit on just the same as you do, maybe think about trying to raise the bar for EVERYONE (which includes yourselves). Stop licking the corporate boot and acting like you’re living vicariously through the boot wearers.

Nobody here is anti worker. We are actual workers who go to our actual jobs and do actual work beyond answering phones and making presentations. Most of us worked straight through the pandemic, not having the option to hide at home and work. So forgive us if we have little patience for someone who wants to work from home when most of us just don’t have that option. 

This is *exactly* what I’m talking about. It’s not about YOU. Read my last paragraph again. Take the chip off your shoulder. I hated how my employers treated me, too, but that doesn’t make me expect or demand *everyone else* also be treated just as poorly as I was. Raise the bar for everyone.

Your comments remind me of people who hate on the idea of college loan forgiveness because they paid off their loans already and hate that someone else might get some benefit they themselves didn’t get.