maestro64

techconc said:

maestro64 said:

As I said before on this topic, comparing a Hash from a known image to an Hash of another image only works if both images are exactly the same. If the image that is being compared is modified in the least bit the Hash is no longer the same. 

Nope.  The algorithms used are designed to recognize the same picture, regardless if it has been resized, rotated, even slightly cropped, etc.

Everything I read said they are comparing the Hash, the Hash is specific to the all the bits which make up the image. Running the picture through a photoshop filter and stripping the meta data will alter the picture enough so the Hash it not close enough to compare. They said it compared image even if it encrypted and does not required direct access to the image since they are looking at the Hash. Without opening the image there is no way to know the image is the same as the one in the database. The only way to do what you are claiming is they would have to open the image and do a broad image recognition which Apple said they are not doing. Even Facebook uses people in India to look at suspect images that show nudity their algorithm flagged they can not solely rely on the algorithms.

Again, Apple is going to spy on everyone in hopes they catch someone who is stupid enough to store these images on their phones.

As I said before on this topic, comparing a Hash from a known image to an Hash of another image only works if both images are exactly the same. If the image that is being compared is modified in the least bit the Hash is no longer the same. Does anyone believe the people who are involved in this stuff are going to be that stupid to store these items on their phone exactly as they in the database. Especially now that this has been highlighted all over the place. If apple wanted to do this and catch these guys they should have never disclosed this information publicly.

The police are only catching the stupid idiots who down load this stuff to their home computer. The major trafficers of this stuff are not being caught, if they were it would have been plastered all over the news. 

The problem we have is we have bunch of people who think if they are doing something for very altruistic reason the means justify the ends. They do not care if your rights and privacy are violated in the end. You hear these people say all the time even if they get one of these bad people is justification for what they did. If people do not being stepping up on all of this invasion of privacy, you will have non in the near future. You have to stop saying you have nothing to hide or only those who are doing something wrong should worry. It does not stop there, you are already seeing people moving the goal post on what is acceptable and what is not.

I think everyone agrees CSAM is very bad any anyone involved in this are bad people and should be locked up in a deep dark place. I think everyone also agrees invading everyone privacy in the pursuit of bad people is also a very slipper slop open to abuse. Some people think reading a hash of a file is not an invasion especially if someone chooses to store those files on a third parties service. 

Simple analogy, think about safe deposit boxes in banks and elsewhere. Bank have clear rules about the use of those boxes but people all the time put things in those boxes the government would love to know about. No one is allow to peek in those boxes without probable cause and a warrant. Now, can banks begin to scan those boxes with some technologies which does not require them to be open but tell the government what's in them. Extend this to your home what if they can scan your home and know what you have inside. This is not hypothetical since most people 20 yrs ago did not believe you could write a program which reads a electronic photo and recognizes for what it is.

As much as some would like to believe what Apple is doing is very much altruistic and they are doing it for the betterment of society (i.e lots of very bad SCAM individuals locked up in a dark places). I could be wrong but hash could be manipulated. So NCMEC has a dataset of know hashes of images and files that are currently known to be circulating. I could be over simplifying this, but all you need to do is filter the image in question and the Hash is different and will not be caught with the algorithm. In the mean time everyone's privacy is being compromised in hopes they catch someone who may never get caught since they found a new way to avoid detection. 

Privacy is a far more complicated issue than can be solved with technology. And there are people who are willing to give up everyone privacy in pursuit of their Altruistic view of the world.

anantksundaram said:

This is the kind of thing that well-worn old-school corporations, who have something to hide, do.

Pretty sad. 

Not really, if I worked at Apple and they allowed anyone to know what I was being paid I would sue. It's no one's business to know what you negotiated as your salary or the raises you got for doing a better job than someone else.

Knowing what someone else gets paid is hourly pay mentality. People who get paid by the hour always want to know no one else is getting paid more for doing the same hourly work.

Your paid of yours and only your business and no one should ever share it. Next they will want to know other things about your which is none of their business.

First, I have to say what a great idea putting the filter in a piece of usable furniture verse adding another object in our already crowded homes.

I have to agree filters like this are not as affective as people would like to believe. Yes HEPA fitters do what they claim, but they work best when you can seal the space and create enough positive pressure to force air out of the space to keep impurities out.

For people with allergies the best solution is remove all carpeting and have hardwoods and tile floors and minimize the amount of textile  upholstered furniture. Then clean the hardwoods all the time. 

90% of my house is hardwood or tile floors, we generally dusty mop them weekly and we still get dust floating about. Recently we got a robot vacuum and it runs the floors 3 times a week and dust showing up on flat surfaces each week has gone way down. We have forced air VHAC so we have air moving about most of the time and it has high efficient HEPA filter on it. Just cleaning the floors does way more since your movement across the floor stirs it all up.