henrybay

What's really weird is that Apple keeps promoting their new butterfly keyboards as '4 times more stable' than the older versions.

Yet, in all my years of using MacBooks - and working with other MacBook users - I have never once heard anyone complain about keyboard stability.

In fact, what is keyboard stability? Is there really such a thing? All I know is that the older MacBook keyboards are extremely easy and enjoyable to use - and very accurate.

I suspect that Apple just wanted to make their keyboards as thin as possible - and then retrofitted 'stability' as a rationale for doing so.   

MauiMac5341 said:

from henrybay:

I have tested the keyboards (but don't own one yet - still happy with my 4 yo MBP), and they seem fine, any new keyboard takes a bit to get used to, but that takes a few days, then you are over it.  and your wrong - the best keyboard is the apple magic keyboard!

Agreed, the Apple Magic Keyboard is very good - but that's because it has a sufficient amount of key travel. The new butterfly keyboards have barely any. They feel like typing on an iPad.

Regarding your point about Apple's consumer testing - Steve Jobs was famous for saying he didn't trust it because 'It's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them.' I suspect that Apple believes that consumers will eventually get used to its ultra shallow keyboards - in the same way that airlines hope that passengers will get used to less legroom. The passengers just don't realise they really want less legroom because they haven't appreciated the importance of feeling snug.

This whole keyboard problem could be avoided if Apple increased the key travel by just a few millimetres. it's not rocket science.

How can the new MacBook keyboard be better than the old one? Give me a break. There is virtually zero key travel! The old MacBook Air had one of the best keyboards ever - millions of users around the world didn’t just like it - they loved it.

The only reason Apple persists with this ridiculously shallow butterfly keyboard is because they have invested so much money into the project and are too proud to admit they made a mistake. 

Watch the numerous youtube video reviews of the new MacBook Air and notice how lukewarm the reviewers are towards its keyboard. None of them rave about it - they just tolerate it. Hardly a glowing endorsement. 

Apple designers your new butterfly keyboard is too S H A L L O W. It needs more key T R A V E L. No amount of silicon glue will fix this problem - it needs to be redesigned. 

M68000 said:

lewchenko said:

There could still be truth to it. 

$750 is still expensive. Flagship prices only 2 years ago for the mid range phone option if you consider the XS and XS Max the flagships now. 

Broadly speaking , Apple might be finding that less people than expected are willing to shell out top money when cheaper options are available (iPhone 8)

The XR’s biggest problem is its size. I know people who have said they no longer have an upgrade path from either a 6/6S/7 etc as they don’t want a bigger phone and the XS is too expensive. The 8 is the only option for them and it’s not much of an upgrade. My wife is one of them. She would (and is) buying nothing instead which is a lost sale for Apple as she really wanted to upgrade. 

Agree with most of what you say but to say that the 8 is not much of an upgrade I have to disagree.   The 8 has the same A11 chip used in the X phone which is faster than nearly everything on the market except the newest iPhones.   It has wireless charging which I love.   It has much better speakers than previous 6/6s/7 phones.   It also is smaller and lighter than the new "flagship" XS and XR phones.

Agreed. The iPhone 8 is an excellent phone. It also has Touch ID which many people, including myself, prefer over Face ID.

It seems that this new MacBook Air has the same shallow keyboard as the rest of the current MacBooks. That’s so sad! I noticed that nearly every reviewer on YouTube was either lukewarm or negative about this keyboard, saying things like ‘it won’t be to everyone’s taste’ or ‘it will take some getting used to’ and ‘it’s OK but not as satisfying to type on as the previous generation MacBook Air’. 

I know that many people like the new butterfly keyboards, but I suspect that few people really love them, like the older keyboards. It perplexes me that Apple stubbornly pursues this path of shallow keyboards when they detract from the user experience. Perhaps they are hoping that, over time, their customers will forget just how good the older keyboards were. Amnesia marketing.