InspiredCode

bulk001 said:

tyler82 said:

Apple is on the wrong side of this battle. 

I agree with you but think Epic is the wrong company to fight it was it seems they charge devs a percentage of the sales themselves. There needs to be a way to install apps on the phone / pad without going through the AppStore if you don’t want to. Those who only want to use the AppStore are free to do so but those who want to get it from another source can too much like you can with your Mac. Apple could even put up a nice little warning about the dangers of 3rd party apps etc. 

mdriftmeyer said:

tmay said:

mdriftmeyer said:

leavingthebigg said:

What is stopping all the complaining companies from creating their own video game streaming devices and bypassing what they consider Apple’s restrictive App Store policies?

Say the companies do create their own video game streaming devices, what are the odds they will not allow other companies to create stores for games to be streamed to those devices?

It is easy to join the chant that Apple is being hostile to consumers when other companies are not willing to put their own money on the hardware line to do what Apple Has with iPhone and iPad. Facebook gave up on mobile phones because consumers did not want its spyware. Microsoft gave up on mobile phones because consumers did not its bloatware. 

The complaining companies have decided hardware is too hard for them to pursue even when they promote their “must have” video game streaming services. Yes, Microsoft has Xbox. Would Microsoft allow Epic, Facebook, Google, Nvidia, Riot and others to create gaming services for Xbox? Would Epic allow companies to create and sell mods for Fortnite outside Epic’s store?

The complaining companies want a free ride. Let’s be honest here. Microsoft sees Apple’s hardware success and wants a piece of it for free. The same goes for Epic, Facebook, Google, Nvidia, Riot, etc. And, The complaining companies think there is an opportunity to collect the data Apple has prevented them from collecting. Microsoft’s interest in TikTok is 100% about data collection. 

How long ago was AppleInsider reporting how Facebook and Google provided consumers with Enterprise Developer Licenses to bypass Apple’s security? I wonder if AppleInsider remembers the good old days when Microsoft promoted the PlayForSure DRM then created a better and exclusive DRM for itself? 

I wonder if AppleInsider remembers publishing articles about Facebook experimenting on its customers subliminally to make them sad or happy? And articles about Facebook monitoring everything about game players using Oculus headsets?

I wonder if AppleInsider remembers Google limiting the functionality of Google Maps on iOS unless Apple provided more user data? And how Google Maps for iOS miraculously improved when Apple created Apple Maps?

I wonder if AppleInsider remembers Publishing articles about Microsoft giving up on Mixer, Cortana and a chat bot, a social media app and more?

I wonder if AppleInsider wonders why Spotify has not created a music player or speaker for its music streaming service?

AppleInsider and others will never tell complaining companies to invest money and time no matter how hard to make their dreams come true because the chant is Apple is wrong for being successful and Apple should be willing to allow multi-billion dollar companies create their own stores to compete with the App Store on iPhones and iPads while ignoring the truth that these companies only want to mine and sell Apple’s customer data. 

Microsoft needs to find ways to remain relevant. There is no doubt in my mind Satya Nadella will illegally pay the US Treasury to be allowed to buy parts of TikTok. And Microsoft will do and say whatever it can to gain unrestricted access to iPhones and iPads. Facebook wants unfettered access to Apple’s customers to sell ads and promote disinformation from everybody willing to pay money to do so. 

Epic, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Nvidia, Riot, Spotify, etc could successfully work within Apple’s App Store guidelines but they do not want to do that. They know that by going to AppleInsider, Axios, Bloomberg, CNBC, Facebook, Forbes, Fortune, MacRumors, New York Times, Twitter, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, 9to5Mac, etc and the EU and US governments is time consuming but the effort is pretty much free compared to spending billions to truly compete with Apple. 

AppleInsider knows this to be true but it is easier for AppleInsider to tell people Apple is wrong while Epic, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Nvidia, Riot are absolutely right to protest Apple’s restrictive policies. 

I'll add EPIC just secure nearly $2 Billion in financing this week thus they plan to have an IPO. Let them build their streaming gaming service to compete and draw people to them, and if they financially see a value in Apple Gaming they can port some games to it. 

If Apple were going to create a game streaming system, they would be building an ASi based backend passing Metal instructions to the client device. MS is fine with brute force video streams so that developers don't actually have to do anything, but what a waste of bandwidth.

I agree. 

macplusplus said:

InspiredCode said:

macplusplus said:

danvm said:

macplusplus said:

danvm said:

macplusplus said:

danvm said:

macplusplus said:

Why would Apple leave that game streaming thing to Google or Microsoft while they can do it better than both? 

Because, as today, Google and MS are doing better than Apple in gaming.

Thanks to Apple Silicon Apple is already years ahead on that. Besides, they can offer that streaming to all game developers who sell in the AppStore without alienating them and maintaining the rich content already on sale.

I don't think that Apple Silicon is the magic cure to the issue Apple has with the gaming business.  

How so? MS couldn’t even maintain three Halo games on iOS !.. As they failed on mobile computing, they spectacularly failed on mobile gaming too. 

When I said MS and Google doing better,  was about their gaming cloud services.  The only thing that Apple have is Apple Arcade, and it looks like is not doing good.  
https://www.macrumors.com/2020/06/30/apple-arcade-game-strategy-shift/

The point is not the issue Apple you claim has with the gaming business, the point is Apple Silicon IS the cure to the game streaming issue on mobile by bringing in low bandwidth low latency high quality Metal rendering and high FPS.

Interesting how Nintendo had the worst performing console compare to the Xbox and PS4 (I think even even slower than Apple devices), and developed some of the best games in this generation.  This is an example on how hardware is not an excuse to perform well in the gaming market.

Apple Arcade is not a cloud service, it is a distribution model. Nothing runs on “Apple Arcade” everything runs on user’s device.

I know what Apple Arcade, and the issue is that is the only option Apple offers a part of the long list of IAP games in the App Store.  IMO, Apple don't have something better than xCloud or Stadia.  

No, they don't have as streaming but they DO have as native apps. Because they DO have better devices, much better than Celeron Chromebooks. What benefit would xCloud and Stadia bring to  iOS users other than making available all those old titles which already exhausted their commercial lifecycle as standalone products? How would a rendering made for Celeron Chromebook appeal to the owners of modern iPhones which shine with all their HDR, Dolby Vision, Metal 2 and alike? There are a lot of pirate streaming services on the web with their low quality crappy content, do you watch any of those or do you subscribe to a quality streaming service? If you want to play a game streamed for Chromebooks you don't need an iPhone, buy a cheap Android phone or tablet or a Chromebook, that's it...

danvm said:

Again, Nintendo didn't need Apple Silicon to bring some of the best games in the market.  Second, Apple perform well as a a platform in the mobile gaming market.  But they have not develop any games (a part from Chess in macOS).  And trying to push Apple TV haven't succeed.  These are some of the reason I think Apple is not doing good in gaming.  

That's another issue and a more broad one. Today Apple provides the best productivity computers and mobile devices that can make their owners decent game players too and also provides the best core support for gaming down to the Metal (of the GPU). Game studios develop, Apple publishes. Apple has performed that job fairly well.

Apple chips are great, but it isn’t trivial to port from an immediate mode renderer designed for GDDR6 memory to a bandwidth constrained—but fast—tile deferred renderer.  No doubt Apple GPUs are great, but the port is non-trivial.  Porting an older game like tomb raider (released 2013) would be easier.  The Xbox series x games that are streamed will be a decade before they could run on mobile.  By then the developer would have moved on. There are platform exclusives that can only be streamed. The file size is also a dealbreaker.  Even 7 year old tomb raider is large.  Streaming is the only way to go for this class of game.

Streaming is also a great way to access older games that will never be ported to modern hardware. 

AAA class games could be built from scratch for Metal, but there isn’t a large enough market for that right now.  Most development pipelines take years even if Apple were to subsidize starting a console class game store.  You would at least need something like streaming to bridge the gap.

Yes yes and yes... in theory... In practice, those things are handled by the game engine, and all mainstream game engines have been ported to Metal.

And they brought a lot of superior games to the AppStore...

tmay said:

What the fuck.

Facebook says this isn't fair because Facebook Gaming is not centered on playing games. The company showed Apple data from its Android app's usage that showed 95% of activity is from users watching video streams instead.

Hey Facebook, how about creating a media streaming app instead of a gaming app, leave out the gaming, call it a streaming media app, and resubmit to the app store. 

InspiredCode said:

I’m not a fan of FaceBook, but I think there are virtually zero users that expect individual game listings in the App Store. This is a rule that is pitched as “pro-consumer” isn’t actually desired by anyone. I guess if Apple were concerned enough, they could add a TV.app style listing service in the App Store to help find the contained game streaming service. This rule really only applies to streaming services, trivial games, and emulators since there is no other way to create an app collection.

Apple allows video streaming services to moderate their own content. They can do the same for video game streaming.

Apple has stated explicitly, that they do not allow game streaming services, so why the fuck would Apple need to provide a "TV.app style listing service in the App Store to help find the contained game streaming service"? That list would be a null set!