GG1

GeorgeBMac said:

GG1 said:

GeorgeBMac said:

GG1 said:

dk49 said:

CloudTalkin said:

dk49 said:

If Hyundai decides to Ditch Apple, and Apple doesn't find another car manufacturer ready to assemble their cars, it will become really tough for Apple. They will have to build their own factories which will further delay the project. Though I wonder why Magna didn't say yes to it. They are basically the Foxconn for car manufacturers. And I am sure Apple must have approached them earlier.

Like you, I think Apple contacted Magna early in the process.  Probably one of the first companies Apple contacted.  I think 2 things made Magna an unacceptable partner. 
1. Location - I really think Apple desires a US assembly location.  The infrastructure for manufacturing and assembling their general tech (phones, computers, tablets, etc) is concentrated in Asia.  That's not the case for cars, and assembly in the US could even be cheaper.   Magna has no N. American plants.  It's rumored (again) they're looking to open a N. American plant, but that rumor has surfaced many times over the past couple of decades.
2. Capacity - I've no doubt Magna could handle Apple's initial assembly and volume.  Apple's thinking long term.  Scale and capacity would be Magna's issue.  Magna doesn't have an advantage in ether of those factors that could compete with Hyundai's capacity.  Hyundai/Kia has the ability scale their production to meet any capacity Apple may need.  Magna doesn't have that ability.  They already contract manufacture Jaguar's I-Pace and E-Pace, Toyota's Supra, BMW's 5-Series and Z4, and MB's G-Class.  

When this story initially broke, I said Apple was looking for an OEM/contract manufacturer, not a brand partner.  Some people are still incorrectly looking at this from a brand partner perspective.  Not really sure why.  Questions like, "why Hyundai and not BMW, MB, Porsche, or [insert luxury brand here]" still abound.  None of those brands would ever consider being an OEM manufacturer.  They would have the same concerns that Hyundai is expressing about brand erosion, 'cept their concerns would be magnified because their brands are waaaaaaay more valuable and influential than Hyundai's.  That's not a knock on Hyundai.  That's just reality.

I agree with you on the aspect of finding a manufacturing partner. I had mentioned the same thing when people were like "Hyundai sucks. Why not BMW?". If Apple has to build its own factories, it's going to make this project much more complex and time consuming, and delay it by a few more years. 
Though Apple might indirectly partner with Magna in a way they did with Sharp for manufacturing LCD displays. They can pump in half of the money (or more) in Magna required to make a N. American plant. A financial push from Apple, combined with the long term benefits might be enough for Magna to start building a plant in N. America.

I agree that a US location is key,....

Why?

The world's largest auto market is no longer the U.S.

Tesla, Ford and GM are all introducing their most modern, technologically advanced products in a country that shall remain nameless because right wing heads tend to explode at the mere mention of the name. 

Perhaps Apple is afraid it cannot compete there?

Building a car is much more complicated than a phone, and Apple have no experience building a car. By building in the US, Apple can learn and keep tabs of the process. Plus, there are no travel restrictions within the US (or at least much less than international travel).

Hyundai's quality for US-built Sonata, Elantra, Santa Fe (all built in Alabama) are good, so US workers can put out decent quality.

Do you think iPhones are built in China because they are simple to build?

GeorgeBMac said:

GG1 said:

dk49 said:

CloudTalkin said:

dk49 said:

If Hyundai decides to Ditch Apple, and Apple doesn't find another car manufacturer ready to assemble their cars, it will become really tough for Apple. They will have to build their own factories which will further delay the project. Though I wonder why Magna didn't say yes to it. They are basically the Foxconn for car manufacturers. And I am sure Apple must have approached them earlier.

Like you, I think Apple contacted Magna early in the process.  Probably one of the first companies Apple contacted.  I think 2 things made Magna an unacceptable partner. 
1. Location - I really think Apple desires a US assembly location.  The infrastructure for manufacturing and assembling their general tech (phones, computers, tablets, etc) is concentrated in Asia.  That's not the case for cars, and assembly in the US could even be cheaper.   Magna has no N. American plants.  It's rumored (again) they're looking to open a N. American plant, but that rumor has surfaced many times over the past couple of decades.
2. Capacity - I've no doubt Magna could handle Apple's initial assembly and volume.  Apple's thinking long term.  Scale and capacity would be Magna's issue.  Magna doesn't have an advantage in ether of those factors that could compete with Hyundai's capacity.  Hyundai/Kia has the ability scale their production to meet any capacity Apple may need.  Magna doesn't have that ability.  They already contract manufacture Jaguar's I-Pace and E-Pace, Toyota's Supra, BMW's 5-Series and Z4, and MB's G-Class.  

When this story initially broke, I said Apple was looking for an OEM/contract manufacturer, not a brand partner.  Some people are still incorrectly looking at this from a brand partner perspective.  Not really sure why.  Questions like, "why Hyundai and not BMW, MB, Porsche, or [insert luxury brand here]" still abound.  None of those brands would ever consider being an OEM manufacturer.  They would have the same concerns that Hyundai is expressing about brand erosion, 'cept their concerns would be magnified because their brands are waaaaaaay more valuable and influential than Hyundai's.  That's not a knock on Hyundai.  That's just reality.

I agree with you on the aspect of finding a manufacturing partner. I had mentioned the same thing when people were like "Hyundai sucks. Why not BMW?". If Apple has to build its own factories, it's going to make this project much more complex and time consuming, and delay it by a few more years. 
Though Apple might indirectly partner with Magna in a way they did with Sharp for manufacturing LCD displays. They can pump in half of the money (or more) in Magna required to make a N. American plant. A financial push from Apple, combined with the long term benefits might be enough for Magna to start building a plant in N. America.

I agree that a US location is key,....

Why?

The world's largest auto market is no longer the U.S.

Tesla, Ford and GM are all introducing their most modern, technologically advanced products in a country that shall remain nameless because right wing heads tend to explode at the mere mention of the name. 

Perhaps Apple is afraid it cannot compete there?

13485 said:

GG1 said:

I agree that a US location is key, and maybe Magna could be persuaded to build in the US. And Hyundai/Kia seem to have their hands full with the popularity of their cars now (new Sonata, Palisade, etc.), so they may not have the capacity. And the quote from the Hyundai exec tells me it won't happen. Both want total control. Hyundai are not a contract manufacturer.

So I wonder if Apple may buy or partner with an EV company such as Lucid or Rivian. IMO both companies have taken the time to develop their vehicles and have not made splashy marketing/tweet claims. In other words, a similar behavior to how Apple operate (and total opposite to Nikola and Musk's tweets). And both are located in the US.

Rivian isn't likely, as it has substantial investments from Ford and...Amazon. Lucid on the other hand just completed a US factory in Arizona for electric cars only, and they have had money issues in the past. Their car designs, although somewhat vaporware, are very innovative, but their tentative pricing is even more than "Apple-like" bordering on Maybach-Rolls Royce-like, in the range of $160,000.

dk49 said:

CloudTalkin said:

dk49 said:

If Hyundai decides to Ditch Apple, and Apple doesn't find another car manufacturer ready to assemble their cars, it will become really tough for Apple. They will have to build their own factories which will further delay the project. Though I wonder why Magna didn't say yes to it. They are basically the Foxconn for car manufacturers. And I am sure Apple must have approached them earlier.

Like you, I think Apple contacted Magna early in the process.  Probably one of the first companies Apple contacted.  I think 2 things made Magna an unacceptable partner. 
1. Location - I really think Apple desires a US assembly location.  The infrastructure for manufacturing and assembling their general tech (phones, computers, tablets, etc) is concentrated in Asia.  That's not the case for cars, and assembly in the US could even be cheaper.   Magna has no N. American plants.  It's rumored (again) they're looking to open a N. American plant, but that rumor has surfaced many times over the past couple of decades.
2. Capacity - I've no doubt Magna could handle Apple's initial assembly and volume.  Apple's thinking long term.  Scale and capacity would be Magna's issue.  Magna doesn't have an advantage in ether of those factors that could compete with Hyundai's capacity.  Hyundai/Kia has the ability scale their production to meet any capacity Apple may need.  Magna doesn't have that ability.  They already contract manufacture Jaguar's I-Pace and E-Pace, Toyota's Supra, BMW's 5-Series and Z4, and MB's G-Class.  

When this story initially broke, I said Apple was looking for an OEM/contract manufacturer, not a brand partner.  Some people are still incorrectly looking at this from a brand partner perspective.  Not really sure why.  Questions like, "why Hyundai and not BMW, MB, Porsche, or [insert luxury brand here]" still abound.  None of those brands would ever consider being an OEM manufacturer.  They would have the same concerns that Hyundai is expressing about brand erosion, 'cept their concerns would be magnified because their brands are waaaaaaay more valuable and influential than Hyundai's.  That's not a knock on Hyundai.  That's just reality.

I agree with you on the aspect of finding a manufacturing partner. I had mentioned the same thing when people were like "Hyundai sucks. Why not BMW?". If Apple has to build its own factories, it's going to make this project much more complex and time consuming, and delay it by a few more years. 
Though Apple might indirectly partner with Magna in a way they did with Sharp for manufacturing LCD displays. They can pump in half of the money (or more) in Magna required to make a N. American plant. A financial push from Apple, combined with the long term benefits might be enough for Magna to start building a plant in N. America.

indieshack said:

I don’t understand what the rationale for a case like this would be - I thought the Apple changes are explicitly made opt-in or opt-out?