techconc

davidw said:

Can you imagine all the crybaby Spotify CEO like game developers, that will be crying that Apple is unfairly competing on their own platform, by promoting their own games?

No.  That's just the point.  The Mac platform does not have healthy competition for games right now.  The reason for Apple getting more involved should be very clear.  In fact, the areas where Apple does get involved with software are exactly because they want their platform to be a strong contender for that specific use case.  

... Games should only be another way to attract consumers to buy Apple hardware and Apple can do that more efficiently by making their platform attractive to as many game developers as possible.

Agreed. That's precisely why Apple needs to step in and address this poor gaming on Mac platform situation.

...Only about 12% of gamers play on a mobile platform. Over 75% (and the most serious of them) are playing on a game console. About 50% of Epic Fortnite revenue are from a Playstation and 30% from the Xbox. Apple iOS only accounted for 7% of Epic Fortnite revenue and about 80% of iOS players had access to Fornite on another platform.

Interesting statistics, but irrelevant.  Apple doesn't need to do this for more money.  They need to do this for overall platform viability.  Despite what you may think, PC gaming is a major industry it's a major reason why PCs are popular with teens and quite frankly anyone who's into gaming.  Apple is losing this market simply because they don't understand this dynamic.  I'm sure they honestly think Apple Arcade is a great solution to this problem.  It's not. 

...The only way Apple should get seriously into gaming is if they have their own dedicated game console. Like Sony and Microsoft. Not with an Apple TV. And it's probably already too late for Apple to come out with their own game console. Apple have already been cursed with being classified as a "gatekeeper". Which means that they are not allow to compete in any market because the competition and anti-big tech politicians will always perceived them as having an "unfair" advantage and whatever way Apple uses to promote their own game console, would be seem as "anti-competitive". Even if a dedicated Apple game console in the game console platform market might be a good thing for consumers.        

The only market they really need to address is the Mac gaming market.  The iOS / iPad OS are served sufficiently through 3rd parties.  The Mac is not.  The AppleTV has great potential to be a great gaming console.  Not in its current incarnation, but with an M1 or higher chip, they have the basis for making a great console.  I've always looked at that product as a missed opportunity.  Again, because Apple doesn't understand or have interest in the gaming market.  As for being a gatekeeper, Microsoft and Sony are much more so with their console platforms.  That's why Epic's rant about Apple rang so hollow.  Epic gladly accepts such terms from Microsoft and Sony, but they reject doing so for Apple which effectively has the same gate keeper control of their platform. 

fastasleep said:
Nonsense. All the platforms have first party exclusive games at no detriment to third party developers.

Exactly!

AppleZulu said:

To your point, the Mac platform was never great for gamers, but it was at least tenable for many that were interested in games as a secondary function for their machine.  Apple has a gaming problem on the Mac platform that needs to be addressed. 

Or - now hear me out - they don’t. 

There are a lot of people out there who buy and use computers but yet have zero to very marginal interest in playing video games. For those folks, Apple’s Arcade platform is more than ample to meet their needs. 

As always, Apple does just fine as a business that does not try to be all things to all people. The numbers reported atop this forum thread are example enough of that. 

I get your point that Apple can't be all things to all people.  However, as a platform owner, it is in Apple's best interests to address shortcomings of their platforms.  Apple has never understood the gaming market and likely never will.  In the past, they had 3rd parties that were able to fill the gap.  That doesn't seem to exist anymore.  Further, when Apple is pulling in $30+ billion profit in a quarter, its pretty hard to give them a pass for not setting up a first party game studio at this point.  It's not like the dark days where Apple was on life support and really had to choose how to invest in order to save the company.  Expectations are a bit different now. 

michelb76 said:

22july2013 said:

I've been 100% all-in with Apple for 20+ years, but I must admit I'm getting tempted to consider Microsoft's Game Pass. And that might mean I'll have to buy either an Xbox or a Windows OS. So if someone like me is thinking of moving away from Apple, that can't be a good sign for Apple's future.

Laughable quote if you were on a Mac for gaming in the first place.

Nobody every bought a Mac for gaming, but the state of gaming was generally good enough for most.  Those that were heavily into gaming might have bought a custom PC gaming rig just for fun.  Previously, we also had the option to boot Intel Macs into Windows and run native Windows games.  Most didn't do that, but it was at least an option. 

Move forward to today.  Apple is doing a great job with Apple Silicon based devices.  Sales of Macs are at an all time high.  Macs along brought in over $10 Billion this quarter. I can remember when Apple (the entire company) had half that revenue for the entire year.  Yet, the state of gaming on the Mac now is at an all time low.  We used to have companies like Macsoft and Aspyr, etc. that were dedicated to porting A-list games to the Mac.  We don't have that anymore.  Worse, Apple actually thinks it's addressing the gaming market with Apple Arcade which is mostly garbage indie titles for very casual gamers.  

To your point, the Mac platform was never great for gamers, but it was at least tenable for many that were interested in games as a secondary function for their machine.  Apple has a gaming problem on the Mac platform that needs to be addressed. 

viclauyyc said:

Even Apple buy half of AAA list games on the market, I don’t expect to see people will rush to buy a Mac just to play these games. Hardcore gamer has a long history of dislike/hate Mac/Apple. They might just not to play these games anymore if it is a Mac only.

They may not rush out to buy a Mac just to play games, but many people won't buy a Mac specifically because it's a lousy gaming platform. Some skip Apple platforms entirely.  Some buy a low end Mac and augment with a gaming console.  Either way, Apple is not servicing an entire segment of the market.  Moreover, their overall platform is less attractive for not offering competitive gaming solutions.

elijahg said:

Apple already has its own console, and it's in at least a few people's homes already - the AppleTV. For casual games it's fine, they could have a "pro" with a beefed up GPU which would be more on the level of a PS5/Xbox.

I fear they've entirely missed the boat on this as a concept though. They watched the mobile (phone) gaming market get invented under their feet but have ignored it until recently with AA, and even then just dipped their little toe in. Apple needs to get back to it's old nimble self, to "skate where the puck is going", rather than this lethargic behemoth Cook has created. When it jumps in with both feet, it redefines a market - but they'd need to buy up a big studio to do that now they've left it so late.

Exactly!

danox said:

Apple has never had a interest in computer games of any type over the years….

Agreed.  I'm not suggesting otherwise.  This is clearly a blindspot for Apple.  The difference is, in the past, we had various gaming porting companies like Aspyr, Macsoft, etc, etc.  They picked up the slack and brought many, many titles to the Mac platform.  Where are they now?  Apple is selling way more Macs than ever and the game porting business is basically gone.  danox said:

Dumb American thinks everyone is for sale certain companies in Germany, Japan, China, and Korea will never be up for sale to Americans for any price…..

Everyone has a price.  Anyone who thinks otherwise is dumb. 

foregoneconclusion said:

Ask yourself this question: if AAA style games are such a good fit for Apple's devices, why haven't 3rd parties been porting AAA games like crazy to iOS/iPadOS?

The obvious answer is that not every console/gamepad game translates well to a touch based device, especially with a small screen like a phone. 

canukstorm said:

Smart move.  Right now, everything software, services, & entertainment related is under Eddy Cue.  If Apple is serious about all areas of entertainment, be it music, movies tv, gaming, it might be a good idea to branch out entertainment into its own division and have one person laser focused on that.  Call that division Apple Entertainment or Apple Studios.

Exactly!

mcdave said:

techconc said:

This is the type of acquisition that Apple really needs to make.  Apple just doesn't get the gaming market or simply has no interest in it.  Small indie games in Apple Arcade are fine, but Apple's platforms need A list games.  Apple has great hardware with the M1 Max but a poor gaming selection.  Ironically, Mac sales are at record levels now, but gaming on the Mac is worse than any time in history.  Sad.  

Apple needs a broader strategy than this and while such a move could showcase the M1 Max, it will never be a mass gaming device and they risk alienating other developers.

Apple doesn't need to conquer the world and take over gaming for all platforms.  What Apple does need to do is to make a compelling gaming experience for their existing platforms.  Further, when has Apple ever worried about "alienating developers"?  Does Microsoft worry about alienating developers with all of their products for Xbox?  No, of course not.  That's a ridiculous argument.

Gaming & 3D are critical to current & future (AR)  Apple platforms but they need to invest in power-efficient 3D graphics beyond TBDR & brute force compute. iPhones, iPads, Macs & ATVs need a new generation of graphics cores & graphics-heavy SoCs which in turn will drive developer interest (ARM should already be on their roadmaps).
A first step would be providing easy multi-platform application targeting for Apple’s own  platforms followed by transition kits for x86/DirectX bound software (like the SSE/AVX to ASi libraries on GitHub).

AR / VR will always be a very niche platform.  Yes, it makes for great demos and can even be a nice gaming experience, but it's unlikely that will ever be the mainstream for gaming.  At least not for many, many years.  Japhey said:

foregoneconclusion said:

Fair point. But the problem with that model is that Arcade has to be playable on iPhones dating back to the 6s. That severely limits the ability of developers to create AAA level games for it. 

Yup.  They need to have the casual games available on all devices.  Nothing wrong with that.  However, they also need to set the bar higher for first party A list games.  Something like an M1 Max at the minimum.  They also need to offer an M1 Max based Apple TV or similar console for a device that doesn't cost thousands of dollars.  Nothing Apple does is cheap, but they do need a higher end target hardware platform for their more serious games. 

Beats said:

Microsoft gets it. Apple doesn’t.

Sad, but true.

elijahg said:

If Apple was taking Apple Arcade as seriously as they are AppleTV+, they'd have bought Activision Blizzard. Blizzard have been brilliant to the Mac platform going back 25+ years. They are one of (possibly the only) game studios that always keeps updates concurrent with their PC counterparts, always releases games on Mac and Windows concurrently, uses and supports the latest Apple tech, and even kept updating Starcraft 1 (from 1998!) so that it works on the latest macOS. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the end of such great Mac support, which would be a huge loss to the Mac platform (unfortunately and yet another thing that makes Mac users second-class citizens). 

Gaming is massive, streaming was worth $245bn in 2018, gaming was roughly $150bn. Gaming is 70% of the revenue of the App Store. Apple needs to get some young blood in the upper management that understands this, as none of the ageing VPs gets it at all - and they're missing out big time.

Exactly!