one-off
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The TextBlade keyboard is superb, but you'll have to be patient
dabigkahuna said:1. A minor point, but while they did start with monthly estimates and later switched to seasonal, I will point out that a lot of critics complained about the monthly ones and said they should be quarterly.3. No, we have not just said it works fine. One of the common, repeated errors I see are people who say things like that. Somehow they miss the issues that have also been brought up which are often included with the praise. In any case, even if it does work fine, even to WT's standard, see item 2. Nor are we fake posters or shills. Which is another common thing many critics do - demonize anyone who says things they don't like instead of listening and discussion things with them. After all, while it may make you angry, they do have actual experience with it.6. What is dishonest about not taking customers who will help with testing based on the date they ordered? They said from the start they would only be taking people who had orders in for at least 6 months. They never said - and shouldn't do it anyway - that they would take them by order date. They only something in the hundreds - they sold many thousands in the first two days! While they want some randomness in the testers, they are also looking for some specific things. Not just 100% random!1. Since we are focusing on minor points: Actually, it started with one, two, and 3 week bumps in estimated ship dates. Then they switched to monthly, then quarterly, then, arbitrarily, seasonal. Quite a strange pattern when you consider that engineering estimates should get more accurate as a project nears completion.3. What you say is true. Problems were reported by testers, though, apparently not serious enough sour their opinion of the product. I'm not sure why Waytools didn't allow for any serious problems when they estimated shipping, but there were plenty of problems. A far more interesting question is what problems remain today. Since this is a review and you are a tester, please describe any serious functional problems which remain in the current firmware version.6. I do believe there is something disingenuous in constructing an order page which clearly states that units would be shipped in the order they are placed and then, after creating a new class of customers to perform testing, claiming on blog posts and the order status page that "TextBlades Have Shipped!". And, they did not say anything about selecting customers for a test program in the first year or so of orders. It would be easy to overlook this inconsistency of messaging if the test period was limited to a few weeks as they initially stated. But poorly written firmware and a pursuit of perfection has resulted in this new class of customers being able to enjoy their keyboards for years while customers who ordered earlier feel quite cheated. Having good reasons to break a promise does not make the promise any less broken.Speaking of disingenuous. It is true that some frustrated customers have become angry enough to resort to inflammatory posts and sometimes even personal attacks. When this is repeated, blocking the worst offenders to maintain a civil discussion is reasonable. But, many people who tend to more reasoned questions and quite justified complaints have also been banned from the forums. To make matters worse, Waytools refuses to answer public and private questions about what guidelines were broken or even acknowledge that they silently kick critical voices out of the forum. In my case they calmly responded in public without even suggesting my questions were unreasonable and at the same time, secretly banned me from further discussion. I don't believe this is the best way to treat paying customers. It seems unfair to hold angry customers responsible for they way they express their feelings without holding Waytools responsible for the disingenuous behavior which caused some of the anger.
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The TextBlade keyboard is superb, but you'll have to be patient
I'm not suggesting they fix customer problems in the old firmware. I'm suggesting that they freeze the old firmware and ship it while continuing to work only on the new firmware. I know this will delay fixing any new issues, but based on the glowing reviews you and the other TREG folks have posted of the old firmware, any early customers affected by bugs remaining in the old firmware would almost certainly prefer to live with the bugs while the new firmware is perfected than to live without this wonderful product. Further, I'm suggesting WT ease into this strategy by closing down new orders and keep their original promise by shipping the earliest orders first and see how it goes before they open up the order page again.dabigkahuna said:
Just wanted to address a few items. Shipping and handling problems customers report with the present firmware means they are applying fixes to an already full memory system, requiring multiple changes just to make room. And, of course, also solving any issues with the new firmware.one-off said:If the support burden becomes too much, slow down deliveries until the new firmware is ready or the support load is managed. By all accounts, the existing firmware exceeds all reasonable expectations we had for the original product.I believe the damage Waytools is doing to their reputation by continuing to take customer money for new orders and continuing to miss delivery estimates, for customers who have been waiting for 4 years is far greater than any damage they would incur by beginning to ship the existing product now to the oldest customers....I agree that no one outside WT knows the complete picture on existing bug. But TREG testers clearly do know more than enough to judge if the current product meets the expectations you had when you ordered. And I don't believe any of you have recently (ever?) reported anything to the contrary. Would you or any tester prefer to give up your test unit and wait with the rest of us for the new firmware? If not, why should the rest of us have to wait?
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The TextBlade keyboard is superb, but you'll have to be patient
gmadden said:
I wonder if it had something to do with you insinuating WayTools’ insanity, calling their delay reasoning frivolous and questioning the integrity of sales statements?... I don't believe anything I posted there has ever gone beyond honest and reasonable questions ...Perhaps. If so, I'd like to hear that from them!I didn't mean to sound insulting and they didn't react as if they were insulted when they responded to my post. They clearly don't have a problem publicly admitting when they feel attacked as they have done very forcefully here and on the WT forum in discussing other posts and posters.BTW, the reply to my post actually implied that the number I (and apparently, you) interpreted as sales claims may actually have partially been anticipated sales. And my point about the sales numbers wasn't to question their integrity, but to point out the shocking magnitude of the total amount of customers cash they are holding or using in a situation which wasn't supposed to be a 4 year long kick-start project. Recall that it was marketed as a completed product with future firmware improvements. This, in spite of the fact that we learned a few months later that the firmware update mechanism still wasn't completed.Over 3 years later, I did and do intend to question their delay reasoning. As a payed customer, I believe i have a right to voice my opinion on this. I believe that the nearly unanimous satisfaction and accolades expressed by all the customers on the forum lucky enough to receive a test unit justify my views. And now, a second review by the press coming in as incredibly positive are incontrovertible evidence that the product is ready to ship by any reasonable measure.If they believe, as they implied in their response to my post 10 months ago, that they might have difficulty handling the customer support demands of all the new sales they anticipate, then they have several options short of polishing the thing until it is perfection.For example, since WT believe that all hardware issues have been resolved, they could stop taking new orders and ship the existing well-tested firmware to existing customers in the order in which they were payed, as they promised to do at launch. If the support burden becomes too much, slow down deliveries until the new firmware is ready or the support load is managed. By all accounts, the existing firmware exceeds all reasonable expectations we had for the original product. This didn't include flawless jumps (advertised to be implemented by a firmware update *after* launch) or tunable touch regions (never even planned as far as i can tell). Nor had they allowed time for any customer testing or mentioned two classes of customers. Waytools promised to ship earlier customer orders first as volume manufacturing ramped up, but now, as they pick and choose who will get a test unit while sitting on a huge pile of final hardware, it seems this incentive to order early has been largely voided. They could still keep this promise in a meaningful way and earn back some of the faith they have lost.I believe the damage Waytools is doing to their reputation by continuing to take customer money for new orders and continuing to miss delivery estimates, for customers who have been waiting for 4 years is far greater than any damage they would incur by beginning to ship the existing product now to the oldest customers. Imagine converting the most unhappy customers like me into happy, cheer-leading customers like you and just about every other TREG customer. It is not a coincidence that there seem to be no unhappy TREG customers. The product is that good, and has been for years. Even the few customers who experience any remaining problems and have to wait for a major firmware update would probably be happier with slow support than they are now. Early adopters expect rough edges. People who pre-pay for a product to ship in a month tend to be early adopters and at this point. I suspect only the most dedicated of early adopters like you and I remain as customers. OnePlus demonstrated that the scarcity of a slow roll-out of a potentially disruptive product can be hugely successful marketing. As long as it it done fairly.One final thought; What was the point of a promise to ship a possible improved model to early adopters in the first year if they then spend more than 4 years to perfect it before shipping to a single non-test customer. It seems to me the point of such a promise was that perfection was not initially the goal for this first product! Now, the hardware seems to have been perfected while struggling to get the firmware right and they have already tested enough of the new firmware design to be confident they won't need a hardware bump, so it is unlikely that shipping now will raise the risk of having incur this expense.In spite of the fact that perfection was not what I signed up for when I ordered and that I feel frustrated and abused as a customer, I am still excited about the product. I don't want a refund. I want my keyboard. Even if it's not quite perfect. I'm sure a great many other customers who were not chosen as testers agree that it is quite unfair and inconsistent with the initial commitment Waytools made to us as early adopters to delay shipment of early orders any further. Even if shipping now makes support costs a little higher. And please don't tell us that because you are a TREG customer you know it will be worth the wait. That just makes the rest of us feel more cheated. -
The TextBlade keyboard is superb, but you'll have to be patient
WayTools_Support,I didn't intend to post here again, but since you have chosen to engage here and have declined to answer or even respond to this question when I asked it in private on your forum twice over the last 10 months, can you answer it here please?Why did you remove my ability to post on your forum? I don't believe anything I posted there has ever gone beyond honest and reasonable questions and comments any of my fellow frustrated paying customers have asked or wanted to ask.--brad0 -
The TextBlade keyboard is superb, but you'll have to be patient
colinng said:
3. I’ve never seen them silencing an account. I’ve been on the forum at least 2 years, maybe 3. If you sound like the $99 is causing you more stress than it should, they will refund you immediately, and give you a week to exercise the option to reinstate your order without losing your place in line. If someone is distressed about the money and doesn’t reinstate their order, then I’d say WayTools did the right thing in refunding them!Unsurprisingly, Waytools seems to choose only vocal fans to be testers. I do believe the product is great so It is not surprising that you are still a fan now that you are one of the chosen. Arguing with true fans accomplishes little so I won't bother with most of my initial reaction to your post.But I do want to correct your error on #3. Waytools does indeed silence accounts, even those who are moderate and respectful in their criticism. They put my account "temporarily on hold as a precautionary measure until your post can be reviewed" almost a year ago after years of forum participation This was back when Bluetooth was the excuse not to ship. They have refused to even respond to my multiple queries asking why they disabled my account. Only Waytools would know how many people have been banned, because they don't announce it, you just don't see them post anymore. I didn't bother to create a new account so I could participate again, but I have created an account here just so I can set the record straight.Here is what I posted that got me banned, I can only assume my questions struck a nerve. Perhaps the natural implication was too close to the truth:Really? I don't know of any other company who would deny customers eager to purchase a product just because it doesn't inter-operate perfectly with some portion of devices which have their own unique bugs. Reporting bugs to the outside responsible parties and even working in the background to help them to fix it or to implement work-arounds makes sense. But delaying release for this is just insane. Even if the product in question is made by Apple, the company you always compare yourself too. And these delays are completely unfair to the customers who want to use your product with the rest of the devices.Is it easier to deny your customers access to your product for such frivolous reasons when you already have their money?
Speaking of money, do you really already have hundreds of thousands of orders and 10s of millions of dollars? Or were you just being optimistic about fast order ramp-up when you mentioned 1000x more users?
I haven't asked for a refund because I want my keyboard, not my money back. And I was lucky not to have a refund forced on me as they have done to so many others when they expressed such frustration.The practice of charging up front for pre-orders of a product, which was claimed to be just waiting for volume production, and then delaying shipment for 4 years, constantly claiming it isn't quite good enough yet (in spite of upgradeable firmware and nothing but praise from testers) justifies asking some uncomfortable questions. But asking the questions doesn't justify banning the asker.I'm a developer of firmware and embedded software with over 40 years of keyboard use. I frequently use portable keyboards. I volunteered to test this product 3 years ago and followed up with email. I would be probably be a better tester than most, but since I'm not active on the forums defending the company's unapologetic delays in pursuit of absolute perfection at the expense of customer respect, I'm sure I'll never be sent a test unit.
