cloudguy

Beats said:

SpamSandwich said:

Wait... “millions” of people still use Bing? Why?

Because it's safer than Google sadly.

Bing ... is not safer than Google. They have the same business model regarding search, data and ads that Google does. Lots of web companies do ... just about everyone in fact. Google wasn't even the first. It is just that thanks to Snowden and then the 2016 election, Google is everyone's scapegoat, along with Facebook. 

The reason why people use Bing ... tons of Microsoft loyalists DO exist you know. Those people are why Surface devices not only exist but generally meet their sales goals. So if you are totally invested in the Microsoft ecosystem then Edge is going to be your browser and you are not going to change the default search engine from Bing to Google (the Microsoft loyalists hate Google as much as the Apple ones do). 

So as far as search engines go, "safer than Google" is basically GoDuckGo. Everyone else collects data and sells it for targeted ads just like Google does. Because ... how else are these companies going to make money? Exactly. 

Note that unlike Stadia and GeForce Now - both of which I access on my Chromebooks from time to time - xCloud is not yet available on browser or PC. So this looks like a staged release to get a product in the wild in time for preorders for XBox X and XBox S (which launch tomorrow). So the mobile app was only stage 1, and in fact the Game Pass web site still declares the service to be in a beta state. 

Bringing the cloud service to existing Game Pass PC customers - who already have a Windows 10 app - will come in early 2021 and be stage 2. Meaning that the final stage will likely be browser support.

If Apple doesn't decide to just go ahead and treat a "Netflix or iTunes for games" service like a, well, Netflix or iTunes for games service, then browser support is how xCloud will get onto Apple devices. On macOS, obviously. As for iOS and iPadOS, it depends upon whether the mobile version of Safari can support video game streaming. Honestly, I seriously doubt it. However, that "may" be an area where Microsoft and Apple could collaborate on ... updating iOS Safari in a way that gives it game streaming capability. I could see Nvidia taking advantage of that with GeForce Now also, as well as the Amazon and PlayStation services when they launch. Stadia? If it is still in existence by then - because honestly having played all 3 services (Stadia and GeForce Now both have free tiers and the initial month of xCloud is only $1) and it is clearly the worst in UI/UX and game selection - it is 50/50 at best, as they have so much invested in leveraging Chrome.

I would be curious - since they are the only ones that are not an Apple competitor - does Nvidia have a plan for getting on iOS and iPadOS? That would be intriguing to know.

Beats said:

You really don't know your history. This "Android invented the iPhone" meme is regurgitated as a stretch to discredit Apple.

Sorry but Android was meant to be a knockoff of Blackberry. Everyone should know this by now so it doesn't excuse your beloved Google.

1. I addressed this above. Google at least owes some decency to Apple but they are scumbags who don't give a damn.

2. Your opinion is irrelevant. The rules are the rules and companies as big as Google/Epic/Microsoft pretend they don't know them even after following those same rules for over a decade.
Again, Google didn't help Apple with their inventions or services. Apple owes them nothing. Google obn the other hand...

3. This is just dumb. Your comparing a free feature being blocked to a service that doesn't comply with Apple's rules. No correlation just whining to defend Google.

Google owes Apple everything when it comes to mobile. Yes. Why the hell do you think Google begs for mercy by paying Apple billions a year? Heck they're lucky Steve Jobs died as he was gonna destroy the knockoff OS.

1. Never said that Android invented the iPhone. Have no idea what you are talking about.

2. Yes, Android was invented as a Blackberry knockoff. The first Android device - the HTC Dream - was in fact a Blackberry type device. Manufacturers were quickly able to release touchscreen Android phones - Samsung released the first Galaxy less than a year later - because the only change necessary was the UI. If what you stated was true it would have taken years to copy the iPhone.

3. No, it is not my opinion. It was established by Apple LOSING their lawsuit against Microsoft in the 1990s. NO ONE HAS EVER WON A COPYRIGHT LAWSUIT OVER A GENERAL UI. ONLY BY COPYING SPECIFIC UX/UI FEATURES LIKE SAMSUNG. AND EVEN THERE SAMSUNG ONLY LOST BECAUSE THERE WERE DOCUMENTS EXPLICITLY STATING "LET'S COPY THE IPHONE." AND BECAUSE THERE WERE TRADE DRESS ISSUES IN ADDITION TO THE UI. TAKE AWAY EITHER THE TRADE DRESS ISSUES OR THE DOCUMENTS AND APPLE LOSES. AND EVEN THEN THE JUDGMENT AGAINST SAMSUNG WAS VERY SMALL, LESS THAN HALF A BILLION DOLLARS. 

4. You think that Google is obligated to provide YouTube to Apple because it is free? Please provide the legal justification.

5. Yeah ... Google doesn't owe Apple anything. There was going to be a #2 mobile OS because until 2013 Apple refused to launch a device for less than $599. It was either going to be Nokia, Google or Microsoft. Google beat Nokia and Microsoft to make the #2 OS despite being a much smaller company with no manufacturing or distribution capability, no ability to launch global advertising campaigns and no name brands entirely by way of their own merit by offering a superior product that people liked by offering a very different product with a very different philosophy than Apple: an open source OS that could run on a wide variety of hardware platforms. There were even Android phones running on Intel processors for a time! Good ones! Meanwhile not even Windows Phone could run on Intel processors! Android phones integrated better with Windows PCs than Windows Phone devices did! So Apple had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Android beating Symbian and Windows Mobile, both of which had been in the mobile space for years prior ... Windows CE phones were actually on the market as early as 2002. That is what people like you will never admit.

6. Google pays Apple billions to make tens of billions off search. It is no different from Yahoo buying search results from Google back in the day. But if you think that Google needs that search deal, you are nuts. Google gets plenty of search data from the billion plus who install Chrome, Gmail, Google Docs, YouTube etc. on iOS. Google wants it - primarily for the purposes of keeping Microsoft Bing from getting more traction - but don't need it. Again, if you think that a company with a $1 trillion valuation needs to spend a few billion dollars a year on an exclusive search deal for iOS you are beyond help.

7. Steve Jobs' thermonuclear war against Android would have ended the same way that his thermonuclear war against Windows did ... with the other party having 85% market share. The truth is that both Apple and Microsoft attempted to use strongarm tactics to block Android's rise, including Apple forcing poor HTC to pay exhorbitant per device licensing fees and both Microsoft forcing both HTC and Samsung to (chuckle) manufacture Windows Phones. They still failed. Even Microsoft buying Nokia and hi-jacking their brand failed so badly that Nokia is selling Android phones now. So yeah, keep deluding yourself because that is all that you are doing.

Beats said:

cloudguy said:

KillBillOG said:

YouTube seems to just ignore or seek to defeat OS level functionality when it comes to vintent it streams, it f’s with captioning tools, windowing across screens and audio output choices. In TV OS the swipe down control is totally ignored and the long press to invoke audio or HomeKit etc is flaky only on the YouTube app. Hmmmm 

You are aware that Google isn't obligated to provide a YouTube app to iOS at all?
1. Apple certainly exercises this prerogative (where Apple Music and Move to iOS are literally the only two Apple apps in the Play Store).
2. Google also removed their YouTube app from Amazon devices for a time (because Amazon was refusing to sell Android TV, Chromecast and Nest devices).
3. Google never provided YouTube (or Gmail, Chrome or anything else) to Windows Phone during that platform's entire history.

Seriously, what is it that makes people believe that Google or anyone else is obligated to provide any particular app or service to Apple? People generally want to provide apps and services to Apple because they like making money off Apple consumers. But Google and everyone else has as much right to reserve their apps and services for their own platform - or even provide their apps and services to every platform but Apple's, as Apple is currently doing by providing Apple TV+ to every platform but Android, including even Fire TV which is also Android which lets you know that the limitation isn't technical in any way - as Apple or anyone else.

You suggesting Google pull out would be the scumbag move of all scumbags. No wonder you support Google.

Microsoft didn't help Google make mobile YouTube. Google didn't help Apple create TV+ or anything Apple invented so they don't deserve crap.

"You do know Apple co-developed Google apps and provided them as defaults for iPhone all while Google was ripping off Apple technology behind their back to create cheap knockoffs?"

No. That didn't happen. I repeat ... Google did not rip off Apple's technology. Android Inc. and Google developed everything about Android, from top to bottom, starting in 2003. Apple co-developing Google apps for iOS? Yeah, and? Since - again - Android and iOS are totally different (you should take app developer classes - as I have - to learn how much, which is why so few iOS ports to Android exist) then the co-developed Apple apps had nothing to do with the Google apps. 

Look, when someone actually did steal tech - self driving car technology - Google sued them and won. Had Google actually stolen anything from Apple, Apple would have done the same. The whole "Google stole from Apple!" is just whining from people who for some reason think that having an Apple monopoly of mobile devices would make the world a better place. It wouldn't for the many people who can't afford or simply don't want to buy Apple products. And it wouldn't even be better for Apple consumers since nearly every iOS feature since 2011 came from Android. iPhones would still be locked down appliances with 4' screens if it wasn't for Android. Proof of this: Apple TV.  Apple introduced the things way back in 2007 and didn't have the idea to put a full-fledged OS with an app store until Amazon and Google did it in 2014. 

Do you think that Google needed Microsoft's help to develop Windows Phone apps? You particularly don't seem to realize that Microsoft fired Ballmer and hired Nadella precisely because Nadella promised to emulate Google's web and mobile based software and services that were hammering Microsoft's ancient desktop and single-server based products. Google went from being the #3 search engine to a $1 trillion valuation in less than 15 years and you think that they were incapable of writing a Windows Phone app on their own? Do you seriously think that? If you do then well you are just beyond help. Apple can't even handle their own cloud services. They need to buy cloud services from AWS and Google to host iCloud and the rest. Apple can't - or won't - even support the modern PWA standards that Google and Microsoft are promoting. Siri has fallen way behind Google Assistant and Alexa despite inventing the digital assistant field to begin with. And it is Google who can't make apps without help? That is rich.

I am going to state it again. Apple is not entitled to any of Google's apps. Google only provides those apps to make money. Period. 

Beats said:

cloudguy said:

This is absolutely absurd.

0. Apple does not make iMessage available to Android.
1. Apple does not make iTunes available to Android even though it is available for Windows.
2. Apple releases AppleTV+ on every platform but Google Android including Fire TV (non-Google Android).
3. Apple blocks Stadia entirely, depriving it of any chance of gaining a subscriber base before superior xCloud launched (and before Amazon Prime Gaming Cloud launches in 2021).

And you folks are upset that Google isn't supporting a single brand new feature on iOS? 

Wow, talk about entitled. People who own both Android and Apple devices - yes there are a lot of us - don't even have iCloud apps. We have to use the website. Yet you expect top tier support for a feature that was enabled just Tuesday? From a competitor?

Let me put it another way. You are only now able to make Chrome and Gmail default apps on iOS. (Or at least you will when Google gets around to updating the apps.) Unlike PIP for Apple, Chrome and Gmail are vital services for Google's survival!

Even better: Apple won't even let apps named "Android" in the App Store! Google had to rename them "Google" and change their entire branding strategy! 

Look, Google isn't obligated to allow iOS access to YouTube at all. So long as it is available to Windows and macOS through the browser, it isn't a monopoly. (Google infamously refused to provide YouTube, Gmail, Chrome and Google Docs apps to Windows Phone, remember?) And even if it is a monopoly, so what? Google has just as much right to monopolize services for its own platform as Apple had the right to buy Dark Sky, delete it from the Google Play Store and cancel the service for its millions of Android subscribers, turn off its API that was used by dozens of Android apps and even shut down its website!

Wow, isn't someone - anyone - out there willing or able to provide a reality check here?

You do realize the entire Android OS is a complete ripoff of Apple's work? They owe Google NOTHING.

There are rules in place for apps. If developers don't follow them, Apple should kick them out for the safety of it's users.

"Let me put it another way. You are only now able to make Chrome and Gmail default apps on iOS."
And you still think Apple is being unfair? This move can damage Apple's ecosystem like it did Windows.

"Chrome and Gmail are vital services for Google's survival!"
No one who values privacy cares dude. Go cry to iKnockoff users.

2nd to last paragraph has so many contradictions I don't wanna spend another 10 minutes explaining it.

Google INTENTIONALLY blocked a free feature that complies with Apple's rules. How you managed to compare that to XCloud intentionally breaking rules is beyond me. A stretch to hate Apple I suppose.

0. You do realize that Android was created in 2003 and bought by Google in 2005? The only portion of Android that "is a ripoff of Apple's work" is the UI. Everything else - the custom Linux kernel, the C++ NDK, the custom JVM and runtime, the Java + Javascript + XML application layer etc. was created by Android and Google. Since the Supreme Court ruled in Apple versus Microsoft (over Windows) that it is perfectly legal to implement your own version of a user interface so long as the implementation details are different - and every major legal body, trade body and standards body on the planet has endorsed this decision since - Android is in no way a copy of iOS. That is why Apple never sued Google over Android. It is also why Microsoft never sued Red Hat or Canonical over Gnome and the other Linux desktops being blatant copies of Windows XP/Vista/7. They would lose. That is why people who claim that "Android is a ripoff of iOS" have no idea what they are talking about from a software, hardware, architecture or legal sense.

1. We agree that Apple doesn't owe Google anything. MY POINT WAS THAT GOOGLE DOESN'T OWE APPLE A YOUTUBE APP AT ALL. If Google was able to withhold ALL their apps from Windows Phone ENTIRELY what makes you think that iOS is ENTITLED to picture in picture.

2. I personally could care less that Apple blocked Stadia. I don't care about any platform blocking any product or any feature for any reason. It is iOS people whining about not getting gold star service from Google when Apple blocks Google apps, services, branding etc. all the time. That is why I called the iOS people complaining about this entitled. Can't you understand that it is absurd to complain about Google not providing a minor feature to iOS users when Apple A. only provides Apple Music to Android and B. blocks things from Google wholesale? 

3. "Google INTENTIONALLY blocked a free feature that complies with Apple's rules." Who cares and why? I repeat ... GOOGLE IS NOT OBLIGATED TO PROVIDE YOUTUBE AT ALL LET ALONE ANY PARTICULAR FEATURE THAT IT MAY OR MAY NOT CHOOSE TO PROVIDE FOR ANY REASON INCLUDING GOOGLE WANTING TO MAINTAIN THEIR OWN COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE. 

4. Huh? What on earth are you talking about? EVERY SINGLE VIDEO GAME STREAMING COMPANY HAS USED NETFLIX AS ITS MODEL. FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. There were other game streaming services before the current Stadia/GeForce Now/xCloud batch. There will be at least 3 major others to launch by 2022: Amazon, PlayStation and Steam. All of them will use the same general Netflix model that is used for movies, TV shows, songs and books. Or to to be honest you can call it THE ITUNES MODEL since they Apple and iTunes were the first to popularize the media catalog within an app going way back to 2001 which Netflix itself adopted. That's the hilarious thing: Apple is now claiming that their own innovation is now against their rules.

Also, you don't seem to understand ... xCloud doesn't need Apple to succeed anyway! Microsoft has 10 million GamePass subscribers and 90 million XBox Live subscribers. Add to that the many tens of millions more who own or have owned an XBox console. Those people will either A. buy an Android phone or tablet if they don't own one already - newsflash as there are 3 billion active Android devices on the planet most already do - or they will B. wait until xCloud is available on Windows in 2021. The same thing will happen when Amazon launches their video game streaming service in 2021. It will be available on Fire TV devices (the #2 set top box platform), Kindle Fire tablets, Android tablets and phones as well as PCs. When PlayStation and Steam add their streaming services - they will have to in order to compete with xCloud and Amazon (Stadia  and GeForce Now not so much) they will bring their existing customer base, most of them already have Android hardware or will have no principled objection to getting a $60 Android tablet to use it. (That's the beauty of web/cloud services ... you don't need an A14 chip for a good user experience!) Game streaming does not need iOS to succeed and Apple is only hurting itself - though admittedly by only a very tiny marginal bit - by blocking it.

Basically, you are fine with Apple locking out others completely and not putting its services on other platforms at all WHILE WHINING ABOUT A SINGLE FEATURE ON A FREE APP. Don't you realize how entitled that is?

Now I am going to restate. My problem isn't that I think that Apple owes Google anything. They don't. YOUR PROBLEM IS THINKING THAT GOOGLE FOR SOME REASON OWES APPLE EVERYTHING. THEY DO NOT.