hpe

foregoneconclusion said:

hpe said: Currently, you are discriminating men to reach a political goal. That is at best fighting the symptom and not the disease. At worst it is highly discriminatory towards male engineers.

LOL...the male/female population is roughly equal, which means the discrimination part already occurred in favor of males with your group of 180. You don't need to "figure out" what caused fewer females to be CS majors. It's gender bias in society.

Yes, that is a problem. But trying to solve it by later discriminating others is not a solution, not even a bad one.
what should be done is figuring out what discriminatory mechanisms are behind the fact that women are so underrepresented in tech already at university.

ilarynx said:

methetechman said:

The women (and men) did an outstanding job at Apple’s event. This seems obvious. 

Countering the male biased argument in America (not talking about Apple here). It is currently in fashion to ask for one gender, race and event sexual orientation in the name of equity. Equity currently being defined as equal outcome along these 3 demissions. I disagree that historical male biased is the sole cause for female representation in the top1% of jobs.

- Men are 10 times more likely to die on the job than females.
- Men represent 93% of those in prison
- Men are 50 times less likely to have primary custody of their children then females
- women, on average in Silicon Valley, make 6% more than men. 

This falls in the "127% of people believe any statistic presented to them" category. 

In addition to the stats presented here having no relevance to the subject at hand, they cite no source. Anyone can pull a number out of their... hat (e.g. "98.5% of people suffering from male fragility are also involuntarily celibate.") A number/statistic citing no source should be considered BS until proven otherwise.

Apple is making progress on the gender equity front, but it, along with the entire tech industry, has a long way to go.  

Are they making progress. I am an engineer with a CS major. I started studying in 1998 so I am now of an age where some of my peers have reached top positions. There was 180 of us… only 12 were female… how can you expect to have a more even outcome in upper management 25 years later? That is saying that the women that do study this and related fields are on average that much better than their male peers… and this is not a random statistic. Wherever you look, you can be sure the female students of CS or electronics are a very small minority. Currently, you are discriminating men to reach a political goal. That is at best fighting the symptom and not the disease. At worst it is highly discriminatory towards male engineers.
You should not correct a wrong with implementing another wrong.
What should be done is figuring out why there are so few female students of CS. Encouraging future female engineers to take those classes.
Requiring tech companies to hire from a small subset of the talent pool and expect them to be competitive is naive.

bsimpsen said:

1) I care. During my 35 year engineering career, I worked with hundreds of white male engineers, perhaps a dozen males of color (mostly Asian, two Indian) and two white females. I encountered zero females in top management. Only four of my engineering school graduating class of 150 were women, The few women I had the pleasure of working with where bright, motivated, thoughtful, and frustrated by the lack of opportunity, even in places where management seemed progressive. I want better for women because they’re more than half our future, they’re undervalued and I want their different perspective involved in my decision making.

2) If you don’t care whether Apple’s workforce has the diversity of its public face, why do you care whether Appleinsider does?

Similar to my experience. Of 180 CS majors only 12 were female. But if the graduation classes look like that, how do you expect the representation in upper managers to be much different? Unless you think the female engineers are better on average, any deviation from what you see at university would mean discriminating the male engineers. 🤷‍♂️

rezwits said:

The problem is the EU, and it's "subsidiaries" i.e. countries have found an avenue to just $FINE American Companies willy nilly and nit pick.  Until Apple or whatever American company just says ok no more.

I honestly say we should just abandon the EU and let them live with just Android and Windows.  Like a FULL 100% pull out.

While that is true. The US has done similar things by arbitrarily fine European banks who had no other option than to comply and just pay or the US would take away said banks access to the US dollar… which would mean bankruptcy for almost any bank…🤷‍♂️