portowine

davidw said:

portowine said:

iloveapplegear said:

This is daft.

Its liking saying to UPS, here is a fedex package, deliver it.

No, it's more like the road to your house was built by company X, and the road to my house was built by company Y, therefore I can't visit you even if you gave me an invite. DMA rules are about big companies not abusing the network effect. 

You meet a new person, they tell you to WhatsApp them. I hate WhatsApp and FB, but I still need to install WhatsApp on my phone to communicate with them. Good luck trying to get that person to install any other messenger because a lot of people can barely tell the difference between different messengers. If instead WhatApp could send a message, even without e2ee to my messenger using internet, without SMS charges, then that will do. I don't necessarily need video calling and that as we could negotiate what platform we could use to communicate later. 

All the provider needs to say on their app is that messages sent to this user won't be e2ee. For people worrying about WhatsApp spam to iMessage, all they need to be given is an option to block all messages for WhatsApp or any external provider they don't like. Now I am not an Apple user and don't know how apple users typically communicate with outsiders, but can't see why a mechanism to do so without SMS charges is not in the interest of apple users.

And for the example of streaming services like Spotify, one could think of entertainment more like luxury although it's preferable that they provide their services on a standard browser and they do but basic text communication can be treated more like a utility these days.

Not quite.

There is already a road that goes to every house, that all delivery services can use. Let's call it the "Internet" or "Mobile Cellular Network"  However, the driveway leading from the road to your front door, is on your property and thus it is up to you whether to allow any delivery service to use your driveway. Every drive way is already built to allow deliveries by Service X (SMS). And every delivery service can use Service X path, providing they modify their delivery to Service X standards. But other delivery services must have your permission to build a special path on your driveway, just for them. Some delivery services will modify their delivery, so they can use Service X path. You still get most of the message but also might lose part of it. Others will not. In which case you get nothing delivered.

It's up to you choose what delivery services can use your driveway. It's your driveway. It's your right to choose. But you don't have the right to force any delivery service to modify their delivery, so to be able to use one of the paths you chose to have built on your driveway. It's not like you're going to pay them for the delivery. They get paid the same whether you accept any delivery from them or not. 

I am in some WhatsApp groups. If I choose to uninstall WhatsApp I can't participate in those groups. That means WhatsApp is literally the road. While you can say that the Internet is the road, that analogy is not relevant here. Moreover most users of WhatsApp think of it as the road thereby forcing more users to the network and reinforcing this perception collectively. In fact it's mainly because WhatsApp is thought of as a road that WhatsApp is popular.  Something cannot pretend to be a delivery service in one context and a road in another, that is like having your cake and eating it too. 

I am not talking about iMessage here though, as this may not apply to it from what I read over here, but I am not an Apple user to say for sure.

iloveapplegear said:

This is daft.

Its liking saying to UPS, here is a fedex package, deliver it.

No, it's more like the road to your house was built by company X, and the road to my house was built by company Y, therefore I can't visit you even if you gave me an invite. DMA rules are about big companies not abusing the network effect. 

You meet a new person, they tell you to WhatsApp them. I hate WhatsApp and FB, but I still need to install WhatsApp on my phone to communicate with them. Good luck trying to get that person to install any other messenger because a lot of people can barely tell the difference between different messengers. If instead WhatApp could send a message, even without e2ee to my messenger using internet, without SMS charges, then that will do. I don't necessarily need video calling and that as we could negotiate what platform we could use to communicate later. 

All the provider needs to say on their app is that messages sent to this user won't be e2ee. For people worrying about WhatsApp spam to iMessage, all they need to be given is an option to block all messages for WhatsApp or any external provider they don't like. Now I am not an Apple user and don't know how apple users typically communicate with outsiders, but can't see why a mechanism to do so without SMS charges is not in the interest of apple users.

And for the example of streaming services like Spotify, one could think of entertainment more like luxury although it's preferable that they provide their services on a standard browser and they do but basic text communication can be treated more like a utility these days.