tenthousandthings

netrox said:

I am pretty sure that the new M2 MacBook Pros will be based on 4nm process, not 5nm process. Apple said that A16 is created on 4nm process and it's likely that it will use the same process. 

Yes, that’s correct. And it’s thought to be the N4P process. It’s useful to know that it is still 5nm, “4nm” is just a name, indicating further refinements. TSMC has four generations of 5nm: N5, N5P, N4, and N4P.

fastasleep said:

tenthousandthings said:

designr said:

tenthousandthings said:

I think these confusing reports are trending toward two things:

[1] After its introduction soon for the new iPhone Pro and Apple Watch, Apple will also adopt a subscription model as an option for select Studio and Pro macOS and iPadOS devices with Apple Silicon.

[2] To do that, Apple needs to be able to produce new silicon at a regular pace, like they do for the iPhone. It doesn’t necessarily need to be annual, but it does need to be regular. I think, at any given moment, there will always be two generations available, with the subscriptions on the cutting edge. 

There are various ways this could roll out. It’s folly to try to guess, but feel free. 

Interesting theory. I suspect you're right. Apple wants to try and develop a continuous "IV drip" revenue stream across all products (and services).

Any reason you think this might be limited to "select Studio and Pro macOS and iPadOS devices"? Or do you think just to start?

I think consumers have become accustomed to buying things on payment (cars and houses for decades now). Phones more recently. Music, videos, games, and software-as-a-service even more recently. Why not your devices too?

No, sorry, the idea that it would only be for Studio/Pro devices is not based on anything. There are decent clues that hardware subscriptions are going to happen -- unfortunately I don't remember the details or where I read about it, but they've been laying the groundwork for it. I'll try to find that reference.

I suppose it could extend to an entry-level flagship like the MBA or iMac, but I don't see that. My assumption is the margins are tighter on those lower-end, higher-volume devices, and dealing with the turnover for each generation would be more trouble than it's worth. But what do I know?!

I think some of the same advantages apply to hardware subscriptions that apply to software subscriptions. The pressure to produce significant leaps between generations (to entice people to upgrade) is gone, and the developer can focus on introducing new features and updates more organically, instead of holding everything for the next upgrade. Apple Silicon will be more agile. It's not inconceivable we're already seeing this, if this rumor is right and M2 Pro+ are all on the enhanced N5P process instead of the delayed N3, then that could be evidence of that agility. Instead of being stuck waiting for the next big thing, Apple just moves on, with the enhancements that can be delivered on time. The subsequent N3 leap won't be as dramatic as it would have been without the intermediary step, but it doesn't matter to subscribers.

How you're getting anything regarding Mac hardware subscriptions from this article is bizarre. All of the details here are even more bizarre. 

Well, it just started from a general comment about subscriptions and what effect that might have. Then designr asked a question so I answered it. I don’t deny it’s a leap, but whatever. I don’t think Apple Silicon is business as usual, and the ramifications of the shift are still coming into focus. 

I tracked down where I first heard about subscriptions, the root source is Gurman, back in March: https://www.macworld.com/article/626219/apple-hardware-subscription-service-rumors.html

designr said:

tenthousandthings said:

I think these confusing reports are trending toward two things:

[1] After its introduction soon for the new iPhone Pro and Apple Watch, Apple will also adopt a subscription model as an option for select Studio and Pro macOS and iPadOS devices with Apple Silicon.

[2] To do that, Apple needs to be able to produce new silicon at a regular pace, like they do for the iPhone. It doesn’t necessarily need to be annual, but it does need to be regular. I think, at any given moment, there will always be two generations available, with the subscriptions on the cutting edge. 

There are various ways this could roll out. It’s folly to try to guess, but feel free. 

Interesting theory. I suspect you're right. Apple wants to try and develop a continuous "IV drip" revenue stream across all products (and services).

Any reason you think this might be limited to "select Studio and Pro macOS and iPadOS devices"? Or do you think just to start?

I think consumers have become accustomed to buying things on payment (cars and houses for decades now). Phones more recently. Music, videos, games, and software-as-a-service even more recently. Why not your devices too?

No, sorry, the idea that it would only be for Studio/Pro devices is not based on anything. There are decent clues that hardware subscriptions are going to happen -- unfortunately I don't remember the details or where I read about it, but they've been laying the groundwork for it. I'll try to find that reference.

I suppose it could extend to an entry-level flagship like the MBA or iMac, but I don't see that. My assumption is the margins are tighter on those lower-end, higher-volume devices, and dealing with the turnover for each generation would be more trouble than it's worth. But what do I know?!

I think some of the same advantages apply to hardware subscriptions that apply to software subscriptions. The pressure to produce significant leaps between generations (to entice people to upgrade) is gone, and the developer can focus on introducing new features and updates more organically, instead of holding everything for the next upgrade. Apple Silicon will be more agile. It's not inconceivable we're already seeing this, if this rumor is right and M2 Pro+ are all on the enhanced N5P process instead of the delayed N3, then that could be evidence of that agility. Instead of being stuck waiting for the next big thing, Apple just moves on, with the enhancements that can be delivered on time. The subsequent N3 leap won't be as dramatic as it would have been without the intermediary step, but it doesn't matter to subscribers.

I think these confusing reports are trending toward two things:

[1] After its introduction soon for the new iPhone Pro and Apple Watch, Apple will also adopt a subscription model as an option for select Studio and Pro macOS and iPadOS devices with Apple Silicon.

[2] To do that, Apple needs to be able to produce new silicon at a regular pace, like they do for the iPhone. It doesn’t necessarily need to be annual, but it does need to be regular. I think, at any given moment, there will always be two generations available, with the subscriptions on the cutting edge. 

9secondkox2 said:

https://www.imore.com/2020-imac-review

https://www.macworld.com/article/668021/imac-27in-2020-review.html

The big iMac is the quintessential Mac. The all in one that put the category on the map. It’s the ultimate representation of desktop computing as an integrated system. 

The 2020 iMac is one of the best apple computers ever, one of the best performing, and a fantastic deal. 

A Mac Studio is nice for the Mac mini buyers who need more than the mini and for the Mac Pro buyers who have no Mac Pro to buy. But it is nowhere near a replacement for the iMac. 

The only caveat is that Apple needs to leave the crazy Mac studio pricing with the Mac studio. And there is zero reason not to expect fair pricing when apple was shelling out to Intel and Nvidia with the 2020 iMac - and increased the webcam to 1080p. The only thing stopping decent pricing is corporate greed. 

As the iMac Pro stood in for the Mac Pro while the modern Mac Pro was being designed, the iMac is anything but an entry level family device. It’s s workhorse and a professional dream machine. Sure if you want a stock m1 small iMac, that may work well for your kitchen. But the larger iMac is s professional tool that rips through jobs on an elite level. An apple silicon version would be the ultimate Mac. 

[AMD, not “Nvidia,” of course.] What you say is largely true, but you are looking back, not ahead. Plus, your sense of it being a bargain relative to the Mac Studio + Studio Display (and your claim of “gouging”) ignores a few things. Yes, the 5K iMac was a bargain if you were happy with the base configurations, but for anyone else the BTO pricing was similar to the Mac Studio. I think I paid about $4500, all told (including 32 GB of high-quality third-party RAM), an i7 with best graphics and 2 TB storage.