gwydion

anantksundaram said:

The former EU Commissioner -- Neelie Kroes, who was no great friend of multinational corporations avoiding taxes -- is lambasting this EU decision and report. In The Guardian, no less. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/01/eu-state-aid-tax-avoidance-apple

Worth a read, especially if you live, or do business, in the EU.

bells said:

gwydion said:

adrayven said:

gwydion said:

The Commission declared that tax rates on European profits were illegally low at 0.005 percent in 2014, and 1 percent in 2013

No, this is not what the EC declared, what the EC declared illegal is the deal between the Irish Government and Apple for the way the amount of taxable profits in Ireland were calculated for Apple Sales International.

The rate applied was 12.5%,  The problem has never been with the tax rates in Ireland, or the tax rates in Belgium in the latest analog ruling

Incorrect.. The commission never proved their was a 'special' deal.. They only claimed it based on the 'low rates' in those years.. Their case is truly based on the low rates.. Which is why Ireland is largely fighting it, saying EU shouldn't be able to set their rates.

It's believed this move by the EU is a first political move to attempt to force it's will of equalized rates across all countries that are part of the EU.. I have a feeling that, while people are poo poo'ing Apple, that soon other countries will soon (Netherlands for example) be in the EU's sights and things will heat up even more.

The irony is; Tim Cook is completely disputing the low rates they claim. Example is Apple says they paid Ireland $400 million (5%) in taxes in 2014; which completely contradicts EU's contention that Apple only paid a $4-5 million (.005%) ... I'm VERY interested in seeing where the EU is getting their low numbers from..

The you should read the Press Release and the ruling.

And the EC has never said that Apple has paid an effective rate of 0.005%

Yes, because a press release is the way to get your facts. 

I have  little idea how much Apple has paid in taxes, but I know the taxes system of Ireland has been in place ever since Apple set up shop over 30 years ago. I read about it when Jobs first came back.

The rate was designed to attract foreign investment, desperately needed in Ireland. Many companies took advantage of the tax laws, and no special deal was set up just for Apple. 

It simply is unfair for the EU to 30 + years later claim Apple has been under paying when it has known for that long Ireland's tax rate and how much companies like Apple paid. This isn't a recent revelation. 

Further, if Ireland set an illegal rate, Ireland should eat the cost not a company following the law.

Moreover, the fight isn't really about the taxes, it is about who gets to collect them. Apple's view is the US is the proper taxing entity.

The instability this precedent sets will destabilize European investment and costs will be passed on to consumers.  

This will validate Britain's decision to leave the EU. 

I think companies like Apple should pay more taxes, but not retroactively. Governments should clarify the tax laws.

adrayven said:

gwydion said:

The Commission declared that tax rates on European profits were illegally low at 0.005 percent in 2014, and 1 percent in 2013

No, this is not what the EC declared, what the EC declared illegal is the deal between the Irish Government and Apple for the way the amount of taxable profits in Ireland were calculated for Apple Sales International.

The rate applied was 12.5%,  The problem has never been with the tax rates in Ireland, or the tax rates in Belgium in the latest analog ruling

Incorrect.. The commission never proved their was a 'special' deal.. They only claimed it based on the 'low rates' in those years.. Their case is truly based on the low rates.. Which is why Ireland is largely fighting it, saying EU shouldn't be able to set their rates.

It's believed this move by the EU is a first political move to attempt to force it's will of equalized rates across all countries that are part of the EU.. I have a feeling that, while people are poo poo'ing Apple, that soon other countries will soon (Netherlands for example) be in the EU's sights and things will heat up even more.

The irony is; Tim Cook is completely disputing the low rates they claim. Example is Apple says they paid Ireland $400 million (5%) in taxes in 2014; which completely contradicts EU's contention that Apple only paid a $4-5 million (.005%) ... I'm VERY interested in seeing where the EU is getting their low numbers from..

The Commission declared that tax rates on European profits were illegally low at 0.005 percent in 2014, and 1 percent in 2013

Soli said:

This is BS for any company. If the EU wants to change close the loophole that companies are exploiting then they have the right to do so, but to retroactively charge them for taxes they weren't legally required to pay only after finally getting their collective bureaucratic heads out of their asses, is ridiculous. They're going after the world's most valuable company first because they think they can guilt them into paying by painting Apple as being a shyster, which is easy to fool the plebs that assume that if you have accumulated wealth it means you must have committed heinous crimes, while also claiming it will help the people when the money will only go to make the rich richer.