polymnia

The Z6 is certainly my next big camera. I have been using Nikon DSLRs since the D70. 

I got a chance to use one of the new Canon mirrorless bodies at a client site the other day and was super impressed at how well the EVF kept up with my movements. 

I love USB-C with in-body charging. Very travel-friendly. And even wallet-friendly in the studio since it doesn’t require a proprietary mains power adapter for day-long tethered shooting. I do still life studio photography fairly often and I’ve always wished the wiring & logistics could be simplified. It’s s nice change of pace to see Nikon keeping up with tech industry standards. 

lorin schultz said:

polymnia said:

I’ll go a little further, at the risk of antagonizing you

So now you're saying I'm oversensitive?!

LOL! Just kidding around. Maybe I was being too thin-skinned earlier. We should be good now, though -- I put on my big boy pants.

polymnia said:

I’ve come around to the idea that in certain use cases simple (wireless) is a better design.

You're probably right. I have an ethernet cable sitting only a few feet away from where I use my laptop most, but if the transfer is less than double-digit GB I don't bother with it. Since that behaviour is actually counter-productive it might be a really sad manifestation of human laziness reaching absurd levels, but whatever the reason, the simplicity does seem to appeal to users.

I also have wireless cans that I use on the train. They'e fine for that and most people would be perfectly satisfied. The thing is, wireless listening is much more expensive, adds another device to the charging regime, and limits my choices (I can no longer grab the same cans I use for location work or at the computer and just plug them into my phone, and switching the pairing from one device to another takes way longer and is much more hassle than just pulling a wired plug, even with my W1-equipped headphones). None of that is the end of the world, but I question why most people would bother? What's the payoff? In what applications are that few feet of wire an obstacle? Maybe at the gym, but other than that...

When I asked "Why not just leave the headphone jack?" you asked me to consider the opposite: Why should you be stuck with an unused hole in your phone? To me, one reason is because it still has benefit for enough other people to warrant its existence while its presence has no adverse affect on your experience, or at least very little.

There are good arguments to be made both for and against. I suspect that as wireless becomes less exotic and is something Apple can include in the box with iPhones, we will get less pushback of the headphone port omission. Bluetooth will evolve. The original AirPods are almost as reliable as the wired earbuds they replace (that's my experience, anyway), give them until 2nd or 3rd Gen to get dialed in so tight that all but audiophiles and broadcasters/videographers will be completely satisfied with AirPods.

A longer timeframe is probably on order if/when the Lightning/USB-C port is removed from the iPhone. Charging is the killer application that everyone uses the Lighting port for now. Until the vast majority of customers are completely comfortable with wireless charging, they have to keep the port. After that transition, who knows? I'd buy a phone with no data/charging port. I'd also love there to be an iPhone Pro option for those who really need wired capability for specific applications. I'm sympathetic to those needs even if they aren't my own needs.

Regarding the human laziness idea regarding you neglecting your ethernet cable...I'd suggest you give yourself more credit. Humans suck at context switching. Getting into a flow state and staying there is important in many tasks. It's sometimes worth a sacrifice in speed to keep your mind in the zone, unless the delay is drastic enough to push you out of your flow state. I work in the creative field where raw performance is important, but keeping focused on the creative objective is paramount. Dispensing with distracting technical procedures, even though it might make my workflow less than optimal, is a choice that sometimes makes the most sense. An example that comes to mind is Lightroom on the iPad Pro. Definitely slower than the desktop version (though faster than many here would probably suspect) but the big benefit to me is I can work on an image around other people involved in the project, show them my progress and get feedback, even hand the iPad to them if they want to have a go at something. And I rarely connect my MacBook Pro via Ethernet, though my iMac is hardwired and likely always will be. As our technology outstrips our need for the incremental speedups it offers our existing workflows, real innovation will come from using new technology to change the workflow itself. The old faster horses versus inventing the automobile metaphor.

lorin schultz said:

Hey @polymnia, I've been thinking some more about your remarks in the few minutes since my last reply, and I think there might be more to the issue of waterproofing than I originally thought.

I said since ports are sealed from behind they're not really a major concern, and that may be true. However I also said that you can't make it waterproof anyway, because of the speaker and mic holes. Now that I think about, at least the speakers could be fine (and maybe already are, I don't know).

A speaker is just a piston driven by an electric motor. If the speaker driver is made of waterproof material (which it probably already is) and it's sealed along the edge where it opens out to the world so that water can't get behind it into the motor and other electronics (which it may already be), then it wouldn't matter if water got in -- it would just puddle in a waterproof basin (the speaker cone) until it evaporated. It would sound like crap while wet, but would recover just fine once dry.

I don't know about microphones though. They use diaphragms that are not nearly as robust as a speaker cone, and likely use a charged element because of the high sensitivity requirements. I have no idea how manufacturers address that when designing for water resistance.

Didn’t intend to my tone to be mocking, though I used some terms weren’t so well considered. Things get a little salty around here. That said, I don’t want to be part of the problem. I didn’t skip over your points to negate them, but having seen those points discussed extensively already, I chose to lay out my argument. 

And you wont get any argument from me that keeping ports increases potential functionality. All the technical points you’ve made are likely accurate, though some of the discussion for a bit deeper than I could follow.

im glad you’ve given some thought to the idea that there may be some real benefit to cutting fewer holes into the iPhone. It runs against to the argument you make about keeping ports because of the unique characteristics each port brings, and many people dismiss arguments that run counter to their thoughts. 

I’m a pro user of all kinds of Apple gear, and I am generally an advocate for more functionality built-in. However, I’m sold on the idea that certain devices are designed intentionally with less technical capability in the interest of simplicity. For my uses, I’m happy to sacrifice ports on the iPhone.

I’ll go a little further, at the risk of antagonizing you, and suggest many average users don’t think so much about the ideal port for particular purposes and just use devices the way they are until they break. An iPhone with fewer ports will likely be more durable. And even though I love my Ethernet plugs, TB3, Martin Logan loudspeakers, big arrays of hard drives, and many other wired tech devices, I’ve come around to the idea that in certain use cases simple (wireless) is a better design.

lorin schultz said:

polymnia said:

lorin schultz said:

ascii said:

I think we should focus on getting rid of analog ports (the headphone jack being the only remaining one) and going all digital.

I'm curious why you want the headphone jack removed? What advantage do you perceive from that?

Headphones are analog. They have transducers in them. At some point before the speaker, the signal MUST be converted to analog and amplified.

The phone or tablet already has a digital-to-analog converter and an amplifier. Removing the headphone jack doesn't mean they can be removed too, because they're required for the speaker(s) on the device itself. By removing the headphone jack, those parts of the chain have to be duplicated in the form of a dongle hanging inelegantly on the outside of the device, instead of just using the parts that already exist, tucked neatly inside the device.

On devices with only one "digital" port like a phone or tablet, removing the headphone jack means that any wired audio connection ties up the port so it can't be used for anything else. That complicates some really common uses cases, like using the device in the car. With only a Lightning port on the phone I can either charge or listen to it, not both, unless I add a dongle that does nothing more than duplicate parts that are already inside the phone!

None of this is insurmountable. Adapters and wireless alternatives exist. I just don't see how they offer any ADVANTAGE. They add cost, require charging additional devices, and are less convenient. How is this BETTER than just leaving the headphone jack where it is/was?

Duplication is what bugs you? What about duplicate holes in my iPhone? One (lightning) that does pretty much everything and the other (headphone jack) that does only one thing.

In your explanation of the supposed requirement for dongles to replace the functionality of the missing headphone jack you conveniently omit the fact that many of us have made the jump to airPods or other Bluetooth headphones. I have. Why should I have to have an extra hole cut into the bottom of my phone because you are stuck in the past with a dwindling band of other complainers? I say, bring on the future. I’m fact, let’s also lose the Lightning jack as soon as it’s feasible. I’d love the iPhone to be stripped down to the simplest, most waterproof & structurally uncompromised form possible. 

Leave the extra ports for ipads & macs!

I have answers to some of your questions, but it seems you're not really interested in having a respectful discussion so much as wanting to demonstrate your advanced state of tech evolution by hurling shade.

Since the only one who gets anything out of that is you, I'm going to politely excuse myself. You carry on. Just remember to put the Kleenex box back where you found it when you're done.

Hurling shade? The shadiest thing I did was point out an alternative resolution to your own for the problem you’ve identified. If I’ve done something else hurtful, could you be more specific about how I’ve disrespected you?

Anyway, I’m sorry, please accept my apology. 

I am interested in the answered you elude to, though I cMt guarantee you will change my mind. 

lorin schultz said:

ascii said:

I think we should focus on getting rid of analog ports (the headphone jack being the only remaining one) and going all digital.

I'm curious why you want the headphone jack removed? What advantage do you perceive from that?

Headphones are analog. They have transducers in them. At some point before the speaker, the signal MUST be converted to analog and amplified.

The phone or tablet already has a digital-to-analog converter and an amplifier. Removing the headphone jack doesn't mean they can be removed too, because they're required for the speaker(s) on the device itself. By removing the headphone jack, those parts of the chain have to be duplicated in the form of a dongle hanging inelegantly on the outside of the device, instead of just using the parts that already exist, tucked neatly inside the device.

On devices with only one "digital" port like a phone or tablet, removing the headphone jack means that any wired audio connection ties up the port so it can't be used for anything else. That complicates some really common uses cases, like using the device in the car. With only a Lightning port on the phone I can either charge or listen to it, not both, unless I add a dongle that does nothing more than duplicate parts that are already inside the phone!

None of this is insurmountable. Adapters and wireless alternatives exist. I just don't see how they offer any ADVANTAGE. They add cost, require charging additional devices, and are less convenient. How is this BETTER than just leaving the headphone jack where it is/was?

Duplication is what bugs you? What about duplicate holes in my iPhone? One (lightning) that does pretty much everything and the other (headphone jack) that does only one thing.

In your explanation of the supposed requirement for dongles to replace the functionality of the missing headphone jack you conveniently omit the fact that many of us have made the jump to airPods or other Bluetooth headphones. I have. Why should I have to have an extra hole cut into the bottom of my phone because you are stuck in the past with a dwindling band of other complainers? I say, bring on the future. I’m fact, let’s also lose the Lightning jack as soon as it’s feasible. I’d love the iPhone to be stripped down to the simplest, most waterproof & structurally uncompromised form possible. 

Leave the extra ports for ipads & macs!