sagan_student
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Toyota president tells Apple to prepare for the long-haul with 'Apple Car'
Because it hasn’t happened yet, does NOT imply that it can never happen. Some markets are just not ripe until some technology or innovation or change in culture has come and opened those doors. This is not to say this service would be for everyone, but if the timing is right and all the necessary requirements all intersect, then who is to say if it will or will not be profitable. I personally do not know. But I do know that Apple is all about user experience and a customized driverless transportation vehicle could be a very wonderful user experience.13485 said:
Absolutely will never happen--a taxi / rent-by-the-hour service? If anyone outside of San Francisco ever thought since 1920 that was a viable (read profitable) business model, it would already be everywhere. The rental car business is not exactly the most profitable in case you haven't noticed. In the US, with about 227 million licensed drivers, how long do you think it will take to get a vehicle to your house? Forgot to pick something up--or worse, someone? Good luck with that. A personal car is available instantaneously even in the middle of the night for any trip to anywhere with all your family accoutrements intact.mark fearing said:I still think Apple will go the route of Car as a service. I really would be surprised to see them sell to individuals. That’s so 1920. Honestly. Transportation as a subscription service. You call it, it shows up. You choose the size and distance you need ETC. Cars are the single largest depreciated asset in most peoples lives. You lose half the value driving off the lot, and it sits in a garage or parking lot more than it is driven. I’d be really surprised to see Apple chase a 100 year old business model. You pay a monthly fee, maybe 3 tiers, and that gets you so many miles or so many trips and a choice of what type of vehicle you want. There is more money in that than there is in selling cars via a dealership model. They will start in the large cities and move out. It’s not going to be a car for every town.
If you have paid attention to the patents Apple is pursuing for this project, you would see that they go way beyond a rental vehicle basic transportation model. And I'm not sure how you think it's more profitable to build the cars on Apple's own dollar and sit on a parking ramp full of vehicles that they have to clean, service and repair, for an hourly or trip-based fee. Or you could sell the cars to the public (rapid (ROI) and have them pay you a regular fee for servicing for the life of the vehicle (programmed income stream).
While you don't lose "half the value" when you leave the dealer, yes, it does sit a fair amount. Of course the car also sits, for instance, while you're wasting a third of your life sleeping.
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Toyota president tells Apple to prepare for the long-haul with 'Apple Car'
I don’t think this is an issue as my guess is they will not be selling cars, they will be selling a service. All maintenance and decisions to take older versions off the road to be recycled are completely within Apple’s capabilities.rotateleftbyte said:prismatics said:robin huber said:Yes, because Apple knows nothing about long term service and support.
In terms of cars, they actually don't.Very true. They won't be able to get out of stopping support and spares production after 5 years. Then there is the right to repair. There is no way that Apple would ever be charging me through the nose to change the brake pads. These are commodity items and any half-decent mechanic including myself can change them. The same goes for tyres and wiper blades.Apple will be on a huge learning curve. What has worked for their business so far won't work when you get into the Automotive business.
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Apple could be Tesla's biggest threat, analyst says
Regarding your comment on the usage estimations, I would be inclined to think of it more based on hours in use. I am not suggesting that other companies would not be able to do the same, but it would be short sighted to not think there is some sort of average time used that could be calculated. Replacement would then happen at that time, regardless if you could get 10 000 more kilometers out of it or not. It was scheduled to be changed and we’re changing it. This cost would have been already calculated into the overall cost of maintenance and passed onto us the consumer.rbnetengr said:There are many cars that have been on the market for years that will turn on a reminder to get a service (Oil, Brakes, etc). But many of these have no basis in reality. After all, why would anyone who cares about maintaining his/her $70k (or much more) BMW, Mercedes Benz, etc. have the oil changed once per year because “the car told me”? Manufacturers who provide ‘free’ maintenance under warranty, like BMW, are clearly wanting to do the minimum amount of maintenance under warranty. That’s why so many BMWs on the used market have engine issues, because they had three oil changes in 50k miles, rather than ten! And there’s no way that anyone, even Apple, could determine that the tires, brakes, wheel bearings, etc are worn and need service. They are all just time/ usage estimations, and why would Apple be any better at doing that than manufacturers who have built cars for decades?
Also, who is going to service these Apple vehicles if Apple doesn’t have a dealer network? Pep Boys? Firestone? Midas? Eddie’s Auto Shop?Regarding your statement about fleets of vehicles...that’s exactly the opposite of Apple, who builds products that cater to individuals. The last thing that Apple would want with an Apple Car would be a plain autonomous drone that blends into the automotive background.It makes no sense (to me) for Apple to venture so far outside their market space, and produce vehicles. I’m a huge Apple fanboy (currently have two MacBook Pros, two iPhones, two AppleTVs, an iPad, an Apple Watch, and an old iMac that needs to go away), but I do not see any motivation for me to own an Apple Car. I don’t want an autonomous pod to chauffeur me around as I snap selfies and update my social media. I am a driver, and enjoy the experience of driving.Apple doesn’t need a dealer network, they are not selling cars. They would simply need hubs where cars would come and charge and where Apple staff would do service checks on the vehicles. Not so different from the service that apple stores currently provide people with product issues. The only difference is that the cars would be driving themselves to these locations to be serviced. And with the slow roll out into major cities, they would not need a ton of these locations. They would build out as needed.I am not sure I understand your comment that fleets of apple vehicles being opposite of Apple. Why would one assume drones that they are building would blend into the background. I would suspect that these cars would definitely stand out from what is on the road today. It would be obvious to anyone looking at traffic that you would be in an apple car.It doesn’t sound like you would be a person that would be using this hypothetical service that I’ve described and that is fine. I enjoy driving too. I also enjoy driving newer vehicles so that I don’t have to worry about repairs or about potential break downs and then being out a car. But I am also aware that it is costly for my wife and I to continually be leasing vehicles. We could buy and then sell but that’s another hassle. However, I could see us at some point in the future leasing one vehicle and then using this service for when we need two vehicles. I mean why would I be spending 700+ a month on a lease/insurance/fuel when I could pay for an apple car service. Sure I could just use a taxi service BUT it would not provide me with the individual personalizations that would make the journey that much more enjoyable.
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Apple could be Tesla's biggest threat, analyst says
My best guess for how Apple is going to blow up the market and offer something that differentiates it from other car companies is to approach it to through services. Apple would supply a car service like no other. And with the integration with iOS, the ease and personalization you would experience upon entering the service would far exceed what any other service could offer.JWSC said:So, here we are almost 7 years since the original project Titan was first mentioned. Since that time Tesla’s technology has advanced considerably. Other EV auto makers have entered the field. And the traditional auto industry has made significant moves into the EV market.
I must ask, what gap in the market can Apple fill with their own potential offerings? What is every other potential competitor missing? Admittedly, this could be due to a lack of imagination on my part, even though I have given this considerable thought.
It’s possible that Apple could pull an “iPhone” and announce an automobile that is well beyond the imagination of the enthusiasts on this forum and EV enthusiasts in general. But with Tesla so far ahead of everyone else in motor, battery, and autonomous technology, that’s going to be a tall order for Apple. Tesla likely has hundreds of millions of actual road miles to feed into their AI learning algorithms. Apple’s road miles wouldn’t even occupy one pixel on a chart if you put them side-by-side to scale.
Look at SpaceX - reusable rockets as standard operating procedure. A few small start-ups dipping their toes in reusability. And the rest of the big players got nothin’.
So I am asking, what can, what must, Apple do to differentiate their automotive offerings from everyone else’s? Because if Apple can’t do that they will get creamed.
Then you consider some of Apple’s possible costs... the maintenance on electric vehicles versus combustion vehicles, electric wins hands down. For the replacement parts (tires/brakes), these can be easily monitored and replaced on a schedule (something that Apple is exceptionally good at). The avoidance of having to build dealerships (as you are not selling cars).When I ask the question how much mark up can one make on the sale of a car? My guess is on the low side of things. I don’t see how Apple makes its usual percentage on selling vehicles. But if they create fleets of vehicles and slowly dispatch them in major cities they are not competing with vehicle makers directly; rather, they are coming at them from a position that fits Apple’s playbook and next thing you know the game has changed and Apple is in a dominant position in very quick fashion... say 10 years?? -
Apple rumored to invest $3.6B in Kia to produce 100,000 'Apple Cars' per year
My guess is that these vehicles will not be for sale. I think that they will slowly put out fleets of these to major cities as a taxi service. The car will automatically adjust to your presets and, with the use of handoff, you will seamlessly continue whatever it was you were doing prior to getting into the vehicle. I would further guess that the cities these are first released into will be those that first had street view. Perhaps this was part of the reason they had a change of opinion towards providing street view in maps? Regardless, I am skeptical that these will be for purchase.ramanpfaff said:I'm ready to buy if it's less than $65k.
