alexkhan2000

Detnator said:

Jlong said:

The problem with the AirPods max is that they are trying to bridge multiple spaces at the same time. Audiophiles, tech heads, and the average consumers. These are very different spaces, Audiophiles want great audio above all, everything else either helps or hinders that goal, $550 isn't that big of a deal considering there are headphones costing up to 4k. And from what I seen in reviews, these aren't competitive with audiophile headphones in the $500-800 range Tech heads want things that are filled with technology and here the headphones shines but is the value inline with the cost? Some reviewers think they are, some do not, and some believe it's up to the buyer to determine that. And now in the "average consumer" space, price is king, Not saying that the average consumer won't spend big $$$ but they do it only if they feel the entire package is worth it in value to them. Even taking into account of the Apple tax, most consumers will compare these with the nearest competitors which are the Bose and Sony's. And while max may sound better is that better worth the additional $150? This is the question that a lot of consumers are going to need to answer especially with the way things are right now.  

Umm... No.

Anyone who only wants sound quality is not Apple’s target for the APMs and the APMs are a waste of that person’s money. That person buying these is paying extra for a bunch of other features he/she doesn’t want. That’s just stupid.  

Neither of tech heads or “average” consumers are (nor have ever been) Apple’s target market for any of their products. Yes Apple targets consumers, but not “average” ones — except maybe with the lowest tiers of Apple’s consumer products (which these APMs are certainly not). And “audiophiles”...? This is a very relative and misunderstood term so targeting (or not targeting) them could mean anything. 

The APMs are NOT trying to bridge all those spaces. The APMs are simply trying to bring another level of audio quality and another form factor to Apple’s eco system — to the APPLE users who are primarily (though not exclusively) connecting these to other APPLE products. That’s it.

And for that purpose alone (even at that price), they excel.

I agree with your assessment. I guess I'm an "audiophile" since I have super expensive headphones from the likes of Audeze, Hifiman and JH Audio connected to the latest DAC/up-sampler from Chord Electronics and still desire another set of ridiculously expensive headphones from Abyss.

But I'm also a "mild tech head" like any above-average tech enthusiast with the latest Apple products and something a little more than an "average" consumer although definitely not wealthy or anything like that. I like good quality stuff but I'm not at all into nor do I own what would be considered "luxury" items except for the audiophile gear I mention. 

I'm just looking to upgrade from the Sony XM3 which I've had for a few years and comparing the APM against the likes of the XM4, Bose 700 and even the B&O, MontBlanc, and Master & Dynamic headphones - none of which I would consider as "audiophile" and which I have only recently become aware of.

Yes, I'm just looking for the best ANC wireless headphone for my Apple ecosystem. I'm now convinced that the APM is definitely for a guy like me.  

jcs2305 said:

MacQuadra840av said:

Only Apple would make headphones without a headphone jack, without a power switch, with cloth that will get dirty, worn out, and hard to clean, and cripple the control of your music when you use their $35 wired cable for better audio.

Didn't AI recently have an article on how to disable the automatic device switching because it is annoying when the AirPods switch to another device without your control?  Like when they automatically switch to your Mac when you wanted to keep listening on your iPhone?

I have the Sony MX3s and they are amazing.  Excellent sound quality, excellent ANC, fold into a compact hard case, wired connection included, USB-C, excellent controls by swiping on the right ear (or covering the right ear to turn off ANC temporarily), customizable software in the Sony app, and zero issues with Bluetooth connection or wired (preferred for better audio), and all for over $200 less.

You nailed it with this review.  Mediocre sound quality (typical of all Apple sound products) and not good enough to justify the $549 price.  Apple could have had something if they were $349 or less to compete with Bose and Sony, but no audiophile will buy these headphones if that was the market they were hoping for.  Audiophiles or recording artists do not listen to Bluetooth audio.

Correct.. Audiphiles and recording artists use more expensive wired headphones. This headphone is not remotely geared toward an Audiophile or professional sound engineer. I don't care what the sticker shock is over the 549 price tag, they simply aren't made for those critical or professional listening use cases. They also couldn't price them at $299.00-$349.00 as that directly competes with Beats. So I can understand the price bump in that regard.

Apple is trying to compete with MontBlanc MB-01's or Master and Dynamic MW65's at this price point.. Not Sony or Bose.. Unfortunately they don't sound good enough for the comparison they are going for with the price. 

Here is a great review .. Audiophile honest analysis and breakdown. 

I was really looking forward to these.. I was open to the price if the sound quality justified it. I love how my Airpods pro sound and work with my devices ( auto switching, call quality and spatial audio ) and I wanted the option going with over ears when I wanted to give my ear canals a break.. or wanted bigger better sound. With reviews like these it makes it harder and harder to justify spending this amount of money for these. 

Well, this audiophile reviewer's perspective is to be expected. Watching this on YT led me to other audiophile reviews of the APM by the likes of Joshua Valour and a few others as well as some "mainstream" reviews (i.e. millions of views) by the likes of Marques Brownlee. The audiophiles aren't impressed at all while Marques describes the sound quality as "awesome". These are two totally different worlds - virtually night and day. I'm an audiophile with a collection of boutique headphones that add up to the price of a nice midrange car but I don't think I'm an elitist audiophile snob. I like different headphones and earbuds for usage different environments and occasions.

I really like the Sony XM3 for what it does: excellent ANC with sound quality that's fine for what it is at that price point. I'm also quite happy with the Sennheiser Momentum TW first-generation ear buds for working out at the gym. Currently, with the pandemic situation still being what it is, I don't see the need to upgrade from these but I'm always interested in what may be better in their respective classes and that's why I'm looking into the AirPods Max.

While watching some of these reviews, I also ended up looking into the MontBlanc MB-01 and the Master & Dynamic MW65s that you mention but I didn't find them intriguing enough to spend that kind of money. I'm thinking about business travel usage (which I can't do right now) and occasional home usage in the hot tub. I'm trying to compare apples to apples but so many reviews are comparing an apple to a cantaloupe or something else totally different. Or they are comparing different kinds of apples and I'm only getting their personal opinions on what they like more.

After spending a little too much time on these reviews, I've decided that I'll wait until things return to somewhat normal and I can make my periodic business trips to Asia for 2~3 weeks at a time. The way things are looking, that may not happen until late-2021 or 2022. I was also hoping that the APM would "blow away" or be significantly better than the Sony XM3/4 or the Bose 700 sound quality wise but that doesn't seem to be the consensus at all. The APM does seem to be at least a little better but not by much. The Apple ecosystem features and the spatial audio are nice but, for me, these are fluffy things that aren't useful to me even though I have the latest MBP and iOS devices. For me, it'd be about the ANC for the long trans-Pacific flights and the overall sound quality first.

Like you, I was also really looking forward to these. I was hoping that these were the truly great ANC-Bluetooth headphones but they seem to be maybe a little better while being priced almost twice as much as the likes of the Sony XM4 and the Bose 700. I may yet end up getting the APM when I know I can fly over the Pacific again but I certainly don't see the need to shell out $600 now (including the CA sales tax) for the occasional hot tub usage. It's intriguing for sure but, as the review states, it's hard to justify the price. As an audiophile, I'd rather use that money to save up towards getting another ridiculously expensive but worthy (like the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC) headphone.

thrang said:

I don't have mine yet (presumably Christmas morning!)

Curiously, the review description of the sound quality (being neutral, clean, clear, with no emphasis on high or low end, and great soundstage) is EXACTLY what an audiophile would want. This sounds like one is describing a quality of faithful and uncolored reproduction. This is how I would describe my Sennheiser HD800's.

Yet the opening sentence says "underwhelmed"

I guess I'll see in a few days...

I was thinking the same. I would describe myself as an audiophile (own the HD800S, Audeze LCD-4, Hifiman Susvara, JH Audio Layla custom IEM, Chord DACs, etc.) and those terms are exactly what I'd want in this headphone but I guess it's only a certain percentage of those descriptions or something. For business travel, I have the Sony XM3 which is great for trans-Pacific flights and commuting in subways or taxis in Asia so I'm interested in replacing it with the APM and I read all these mixed or confusing reviews about the sound quality.

Some say it's "fantastic" and other superlatives and some say it's "meh" for the price, etc. or not any better than the Sony XM4 or the Bose 700. When they say "fantastic" or "great", what are they comparing it to? It's really hard to know what their own benchmarks or standards are. I certainly do not expect the APM to sound as good as "dumb" wired headphones like Sennheiser, AKG or Grado headphones in the $500~600 range. Comparing to those types of headphones doesn't make any sense and is not at all helpful.

As I have the XM3 which I had been happy with for business travel, I'm only interested in how it compares to the newer XM4 and the Bose 700 and if I should spend a few extra hundred on it. I'll figure in the materials, build quality, the Apple "ecosystem" features and that "Apple tax" (i.e. their healthy margin for R&D and marketing, etc.) so a certain portion of the higher cost over these other established wireless ANC headphones has to be in superior sound quality.

I've read terms like "wider soundstage" and that's a good start but how do the specific frequency ranges compare between these headphones? I must have read or watched almost a dozen reviews now and no one can seem to articulate these audio-specific terms clearly. Whatever they describe just sound like personal subjective opinions and we all know how people hear things differently. If these reviewers have only used $50~300 headphones, their expectations of a $550 headphone are probably unrealistic in terms of sound quality.

I purchased the Audeze LCD-4 and in no way did I expect it to sound more than twice as good as the Sennheiser HD800S but, even if that overall perceived "improvement" is only 10% (which is actually impossible to quantify), the difference could be huge to the beholder and believe that it's worth every penny. I'm at the point of not even bothering with these reviews anymore because I just don't know what their reference points are.

Well, since you own the HD800S (which is modern classic), I'm sure you know what I'm getting at and I'm looking forward to your thoughts. The APM is not an audiophile headphone by proper definition of the term and it's also silly to see people (and even Apple) describing it as such. The way I see it, "audiophile" headphones start at around $1K and they are all wired not Bluetooth. Anyway, looking forward to your thoughts!

I got the preorder in. I feel that this keyboard and the new iPP 12.9 with the revamped iPadOS can finally make me leave the MBP at home for most excursions except when I go on long overseas trips, which obviously won't happen for a long time anyway. Based on the demos I've seen, it's exactly what I've been waiting for after being disappointed by the 1st gen iPP 12.9 - too big as an iPad and too limited for laptop-type usage. Now it's the right size for regular iPad usage as well as being a good laptop alternative if not an outright replacement. The built-in trackpad is that overused term: "game changer". Going from the keyboard to the screen to complete various tasks is tiring and counterproductive. Carrying around a separate trackpad or mouse makes no sense at all. From what I've seen, it'll be worth every penny. The value of a product is in what one can do with it.