tzeshan

StrangeDays said:

tzeshan said:

anantksundaram said:

dewme said:

I really wish there was some objective, scientific, and non-politicized coverage of the actual issues the US has with Huawei. 

Your creating an equivalency, regarding the quality of information provided by a democratically elected, accountable government (Trump's and Obama's, both of whom have found issues with Huawei -- in fact, Trump is merely following up on many of the issues left over from the Obama administration) operating in a society with a free press to a draconian IP-thieving communist dictatorship that controls speech and movement, is beyond troubling.

It's actually shocking.

Huawei is a private company as it has insisted. In order to justify the statement that China is a draconian IP-thieving communist dictatorship, the China bashers insisted that Huawei is a Chinese government entity although they provided no evidence.

No, they aren't. Its leader is a CPC member, and the US Security Council has been debriefed by US intelligence agencies that they are effectively an arm of the CPC. As every Chinese company is, really, as by law they must do as the government orders them to do.

Are you in denial, or just paid or to spread misinformation? Or coerced? Are you OK?

tmay said:

tzeshan said:

tmay said:

tzeshan said:

anantksundaram said:

dewme said:

I really wish there was some objective, scientific, and non-politicized coverage of the actual issues the US has with Huawei. 

Your creating an equivalency, regarding the quality of information provided by a democratically elected, accountable government (Trump's and Obama's, both of whom have found issues with Huawei -- in fact, Trump is merely following up on many of the issues left over from the Obama administration) operating in a society with a free press to a draconian IP-thieving communist dictatorship that controls speech and movement, is beyond troubling.

It's actually shocking.

You are being fooled about the IP-thieving accusation. It is done by Chinese companies. Chinese government has repeatedly denied it and the denial are simply ignored. You are full of logic mistakes just like the US government. Huawei is a private company as it has insisted. In order to justify the statement that China is a draconian IP-thieving communist dictatorship, the China bashers insisted that Huawei is a Chinese government entity although they provided no evidence. The situation is like when Bush wants to attack Iraq he has to justify Saddam is making WMD. The war proved that it is big lie. But US did nothing in regard to the lie. So US is very accustomed to making lies about other nations. and taking no responsibility. All the leaders can do is announcing national interests and national emergency. And these are lies. US fabricated a lot of facts. Is the western world which triumphed with scientific revolution to lead the world are falling into? Fabricating facts just not Christian culture? Democracy can thrive only through lies? 

I previously provided a link to a scholarly article, by individuals with background in Chinese legal constructs,  that concluded that Huawei was in fact 1% owned by Ren, and 99% owned by a Chinese Workers Union, that is the Chinese Government. Huawei responded to that. but did not provide any transparency that disproved the conclusion of the authors. 

Easy fix. Huawei opens up its books to independent parties. But of course, that won't happen in China, will it.

Just for future reference, whataboutism isn't actually a good debating strategy, unless, as I suspect, you don't actually have any facts to debate.

You need to to learn logic. You provided no evidence that Chinese Workers Union is the Chinese Government. Then you make the implications. I can give you one lead. I read that one of Huawei director wrote an article to NYT yesterday. Can you find out if the director works for Chinese government? 

Logic tells me that an authoritarian government, ie, China, isn't going to give any Western liberal government, ie, the U.S., accurate information proving or disproving that Huawei is state owned. As I stated, without transparency, there can only be conclusions based on existing facts. Without financial records, there is no way to trace where investment comes from. If it walks like a duck, it probably is a duck.

Seems like this would be an easy fix for both the Chinese Government and Huawei.



I guessing that this will be blocked for you...by the Chinese Government.

sdw2001 said:

avon b7 said:

dewme said:

I really wish there was some objective, scientific, and non-politicized coverage of the actual issues the US has with Huawei. A lot of the concerns seem to be pure conjecture or hypotheticals and ignore the fact that all countries, US and EU ones included, have both the ability and incentives to place surveillance inside any hardware or software communication platforms and equipment, whether at the manufacturing point of origin or through interception anywhere in the supply, distribution, or service channels and pretty much regardless of where the equipment is deployed. It's not like Huawei is building a giant ship with a massive crane to mine manganese nodules from the bottom of the ocean off the east coast of the US, or anything like that...

There is absolutely nothing more than you point out.

The Trump administration simply didn't want to see the Chinese take a tech lead (5G for example) over the US.

Trump tried to get other countries to do the dirty work by banning Huawei. Most of those countries refused (after requesting evidence and not getting any) and as a US ban wasn't going to be enough, he simply declared a 'national emergency' to justify an executive order. This in spite of court cases (by both sides) already being underway.

Why wait for the legalities to be cleared up when you can skip that part altogether?

We are now in Wild West Politics and the sheriff is acting like one of those dodgy sheriffs in some crazy western.

Blatant protectionism and nothing else save for the conjecture and hypotheticals.

This is not the precedent the US should be setting on a world stage. 

This is incredibly naive.  It's not just an insecure platform or the specter of secret surveillance/tracking.  It's about:  

1.  The relationship between the Communist Party/Government and "private" business.  
2.  The requirements placed upon said business, including surveillance and cooperation with government "requests" (e.g. spying, targeting). 
3.  China's advanced cyber and and industrial espionage programs 
4.  The company's advanced presence in 5G technology, which will soon be deployed world-wide.  

In the end, this about China's wish to be globally dominant in all areas.  Technology/the Internet is a key goal for them.  Imagine an Internet run, in essence, by the Communist Chinese instead of the free market West.  Huawei is not just some company that might be risky to do business with.  They are an integral part of China's government, which seeks world domination.  This is is why we are banning them.  China has had it out for us since the late 1970's.  They have been executing a 75 year plan to take us on militarily, economically and geopolitically.  By 2050, their goal is to be the world's Super Power.   

But yeah, that Trump is nuts, huh?  

anantksundaram said:

dewme said:

I really wish there was some objective, scientific, and non-politicized coverage of the actual issues the US has with Huawei. 

Your creating an equivalency, regarding the quality of information provided by a democratically elected, accountable government (Trump's and Obama's, both of whom have found issues with Huawei -- in fact, Trump is merely following up on many of the issues left over from the Obama administration) operating in a society with a free press to a draconian IP-thieving communist dictatorship that controls speech and movement, is beyond troubling.

It's actually shocking.