And just because ONE division is full of non-creative stealing ass+++s, does not immediately mean the entire conglomerate is full of them.
"N*gger" (your description for yourself) comes to mind. You certainly like tacky and nasty generalizations don't you? Your "wierdos" comment on the new Apple Store thread pegs you as a narrow-minded fool, and you yourself keep proving the point.
What's up with the N word? Hope it's a southpark joke.
So Apple should just have to license it with a fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory manner.
I haven't seen anything suggesting this was never offered, and have you seen some of the people Apple has sued over their own patents? I'm trying to remember the name of that one in Spain that won against Apple and is now suing them over the previous injunction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM
These sound like FRAND patents, since they are essential to the GPRS standard. I'm a bit surprised the court didn't just order monetary damages, but German courts seem to have one weapon only (product bans). Apple isn't being hit in pre-market trading, so I'm guessing that the two sides will just settle this.
I get the feeling that some of the recent lawsuits are more these companies trying to go on the offensive early rather than wait for Apple to sue them over one thing or another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknopp
To those of you wondering about the FRAND issue, you really need to read the link to the FOSS blog. It does a pretty good job of covering that issue. What I am unclear on is whether Apple did or did not actually pay Motorola FRAND licenses. At one point is says that Motorola contacted Apple about paying in 2007. Then at another point it states that Apple made an offer to pay for them. Then at one point is mentions that Motorola's legal counsel argued that the FRAND doesn't apply because Apple retained the rights to try and prove the patent in question invalid, which makes it sound like they paid for the FRAND but are trying to invalidate the patent in question.
Thanks, I'm going to read that now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak
So, Motorola refuses to license a FRAND patent.. and they get an injunction? Un.. fucking... believable
Let's see what happens when Apple products are actually banned in Germany/Europe. The public uproar is going to be deafening
I look forward to Motorola and their 20K employees to be integrated into Google. It will be fun to see that anchor take down the ship
The idiotic forum rage is completely unnecessary. You're going off too few details here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe
Apple thinks that it is cheaper to ask a judge for forgiveness than to ask an IP owner for permission.
Most of this garbage could probably be settled with cross licensing terms without tying up court systems in several countries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM
Apple approached Motorola years ago about licensing the patents on FRAND terms. Motorola Mobility decided to play hardball.
Apple is more than happy to settle out of court. Nokia is a good example. Nokia has far more patents than Motorola Mobility and has done more to develop mobile communications standards than anyone else. They had a brief war of words, but then later came to an amicable settlement.
This is just completely biased. Wasn't it more than two years of crap followed by a one time settlement?
Nope. That is the identity ascribed to me by certain posters. It is not, however, my description for myself or for anybody else.
I don't often respond to these misattributions. But the funny thing here is that the misatrtribution is in a bizarre context. Another poster said it is OK to make such statements because of the category of person that I belong to.
these days ai is mostly full of ranting sadfucks like apple][ dependent on istuff to self-validate their existence
whilst i do not agree with everything you post, i do generally enjoy it, and consider you one of the humans
What is right and wrong with the world ALL revolves around money, and nobody can dispute that... and no, just because I typed billions in caps does not make me a fan of the 1%-ers raining havoc with our pursuit of happiness, which many would say is futile anyway.
I'm looking at this particular problem, as two equally sized business heavyweights, rumbling it out in the courts around the world where-ever they see a potential advantage. Manila anyone?
And correct me if I'm wrong here, but Apple has been the traditional... and in my mind still is... the underdog in everything related to tech for the last 30+ years. As someone above has mentioned, I also don't want to envision a world without Apple and it's thorough and complete dominance over the innovation side of tech.
No Apple II or Mac = no Windows GUI
No iPhone = no Android with touch
No iPad = not even ONE manufacturer would have even tried a tablet. All indicators pointed to "fail".
However... we would be awash with trashy computers and devices with styli, little buttons, netbook-style, command-line-CRAP! With probably not a mouse in sight I might add.
Apple finally got sick and tired of being ripped off, mugged, technically raped and left for dead... took too long IMHO.
"Zen" thinking however DID have a nice pay-out... so yes, in the case of Apple BILLIONS (in caps) is something I, as a 25+ year user and shareholder.... am quite proud of, and have no regrets or argument with their business decisions.
True Fanboy I am
The modern computer GUI and mouse came from Xerox.
let's not even talk about where touch screen or tablets come from.
The modern computer GUI and mouse came from Xerox.
let's not even talk about where touch screen or tablets come from.
The mouse really came from SRI. The GUI also traces back there, but it's very fair to say Xerox PARC computer scientists invented elements such as windows, menus, etc.
Joking aside, the more of these details that come out, the more it seems that Apple didn't really play ball when it came to the patents for the iPhone. They just built it, released it and then worried about what they had infringed.
It could end up being a very costly decision. This, the Nokia patents, anything Samsung can make stick...etc.
To be fair, they were coming into the game as newbies, but there's still a right and wrong way of doing things.
Thats catagoricaly not true. Apple did offer to pay frand fees in 2007 but also wanted to keep the right to contest those fees if motorola asked for more than frand rates. There lawyers were able to convince the court in manheim that that was a breach of the frand contract. You need to read Foss Patents FLORIAN MUELLER's blog on this case to really understand what is going on here
When there is no 3G connection, it goes down to 2.5G: EDGE.
I have never seen 2G, but I live an modern country.
GPRS is a fast 2G data transfer protocol. 128Kb. This is something that is completely uninteresting for an iPhone user. Apple should therefore simply paths iOS to remove GPRS. When people are in 2G only settings they would be able to call, use EDGE but not use GPRS.
Modern country? If your country is so modern, why doesn't it have 3G coverage to the extreme of their 2.5G coverage?
There were a number of operators around the world that went straight from GPRS to 3G, EDGE didn't give enough of an advantage
Thats catagoricaly not true. Apple did offer to pay frand fees in 2007 but also wanted to keep the right to contest those fees if motorola asked for more than frand rates. There lawyers were able to convince the court in manheim that that was a breach of the frand contract. You need to read Foss Patents FLORIAN MUELLER's blog on this case to really understand what is going on here
Incorrect. Apple attempted to add a clause to the FRAND licensing contract allowing them to challenge the validity of Motorola's patent according to several articles. It had nothing to do with Moto uping the ante on Apple alone, or treating them unfairly. That was their courtroom claim.
Motorola reportedly offered Apple the same terms as everyone else. Apple created the problem themselves by trying to change the contract, then refusing to sign when Moto said no to the changes.
Incorrect. Apple attempted to add a clause to the FRAND licensing contract allowing them to challenge the validity of Motorola's patent according to several articles. It had nothing to do with Moto uping the ante on Apple alone, or treating them unfairly. That was their courtroom claim.
Motorola reportedly offered Apple the same terms as everyone else. Apple created the problem themselves by trying to change the contract, then refusing to sign when Moto said no to the changes.
To be more specific, FRAND. The ND stands for Non-Discriminatory. Moto offered this to Apple in 2007. Apple did not accept, they wanted special terms, ala discriminatory. this gave Moto the right to decline and sue. Apple did steal this tech. Moto also tried to license this again to Apple again in 2010, no dice.
Let us hope that the judge finally teaches Apple that they cannot afford any longer to steal from other people.
Let us hope that the judge imposes penalties so astronomically hight that Apple never steals anything ever again. That would be called "justice".
Don't get all excite yet. As a troll I am sure you are thrilled with this development but the battle isn't over until money and how much of it changes hands and that hasn't happened yet and won't be for quite some time.
Regardless of whether Apple followed the rules of a FRAND defense or decided to gamble and go for broke (invalidate the patent), isn't GPRS technology included on the chips Apple purchases from companies like Qualcomm? Apple doesn't make chips; they have this technology assembled.
Qualcomm no doubt engages in FRAND licensing of a patent seemed "essential" to a standard technology. This means Moto is already receiving a royalty from Apple, albeit indirectly.
Does the EU have the same concept of patent exhaustion?
Looks to me like Apple started game they couldn't finish. If only they'd just used a bit of common sense by avoiding upsetting the hornet's nest.
Oh well. What comes around goes around. I couldn't definitively say whether karma truly exists, but I must say it's hard to disprove its existence after all these events.
Apple should stick to doing what it does best: Taking existing concepts and ideas and refining upon them to create something cool. I like(d) that Apple better than the current one.
Interesting statement. Have you lived in Germany? I have and tech is certainly not one of the German's strong points. Obviously there are plenty of geeks. Go beyond that group and you have a technically naive group that hardly embraces tech. As far as "can afford it"; German household net worth is far from the top of the ladder in Europe. Italy (substantially higher), Spain and Ireland (all labeled as financially troubled countries) are all higher than the German household net worth.
German's still believe in the Fatherland. That's where the money is. The population, on-the-other-hand, takes it in the rear and is proud of it.
Comments
How is this "payback"? Motorola was protecting its intellectual property rights, no? What are they, children on a playground?
I'm sure he means karma as there is certainly nothing warranting "payback" between Motorola and Apple.....yet.
And just because ONE division is full of non-creative stealing ass+++s, does not immediately mean the entire conglomerate is full of them.
"N*gger" (your description for yourself) comes to mind. You certainly like tacky and nasty generalizations don't you? Your "wierdos" comment on the new Apple Store thread pegs you as a narrow-minded fool, and you yourself keep proving the point.
What's up with the N word? Hope it's a southpark joke.
So Apple should just have to license it with a fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory manner.
I haven't seen anything suggesting this was never offered, and have you seen some of the people Apple has sued over their own patents? I'm trying to remember the name of that one in Spain that won against Apple and is now suing them over the previous injunction.
These sound like FRAND patents, since they are essential to the GPRS standard. I'm a bit surprised the court didn't just order monetary damages, but German courts seem to have one weapon only (product bans). Apple isn't being hit in pre-market trading, so I'm guessing that the two sides will just settle this.
I get the feeling that some of the recent lawsuits are more these companies trying to go on the offensive early rather than wait for Apple to sue them over one thing or another.
To those of you wondering about the FRAND issue, you really need to read the link to the FOSS blog. It does a pretty good job of covering that issue. What I am unclear on is whether Apple did or did not actually pay Motorola FRAND licenses. At one point is says that Motorola contacted Apple about paying in 2007. Then at another point it states that Apple made an offer to pay for them. Then at one point is mentions that Motorola's legal counsel argued that the FRAND doesn't apply because Apple retained the rights to try and prove the patent in question invalid, which makes it sound like they paid for the FRAND but are trying to invalidate the patent in question.
Thanks, I'm going to read that now.
So, Motorola refuses to license a FRAND patent.. and they get an injunction? Un.. fucking... believable
Let's see what happens when Apple products are actually banned in Germany/Europe. The public uproar is going to be deafening
I look forward to Motorola and their 20K employees to be integrated into Google. It will be fun to see that anchor take down the ship
The idiotic forum rage is completely unnecessary. You're going off too few details here.
Apple thinks that it is cheaper to ask a judge for forgiveness than to ask an IP owner for permission.
Most of this garbage could probably be settled with cross licensing terms without tying up court systems in several countries.
Apple approached Motorola years ago about licensing the patents on FRAND terms. Motorola Mobility decided to play hardball.
Apple is more than happy to settle out of court. Nokia is a good example. Nokia has far more patents than Motorola Mobility and has done more to develop mobile communications standards than anyone else. They had a brief war of words, but then later came to an amicable settlement.
This is just completely biased. Wasn't it more than two years of crap followed by a one time settlement?
A picture is worth a thousand words. Emoticons help everybody.
Agreed.
So, allow me to point out that, for many of your troll-y posts, this is the apt emoticon:
Oh,
Agreed.
So, allow me to point out that, for many of your troll-y posts, this is the apt emoticon:
Oh,
Nope. That is the identity ascribed to me by certain posters. It is not, however, my description for myself or for anybody else.
I don't often respond to these misattributions. But the funny thing here is that the misatrtribution is in a bizarre context. Another poster said it is OK to make such statements because of the category of person that I belong to.
these days ai is mostly full of ranting sadfucks like apple][ dependent on istuff to self-validate their existence
whilst i do not agree with everything you post, i do generally enjoy it, and consider you one of the humans
so, chapeau! keep up the good work
You're stretching too far.
What is right and wrong with the world ALL revolves around money, and nobody can dispute that... and no, just because I typed billions in caps does not make me a fan of the 1%-ers raining havoc with our pursuit of happiness, which many would say is futile anyway.
I'm looking at this particular problem, as two equally sized business heavyweights, rumbling it out in the courts around the world where-ever they see a potential advantage. Manila anyone?
And correct me if I'm wrong here, but Apple has been the traditional... and in my mind still is... the underdog in everything related to tech for the last 30+ years. As someone above has mentioned, I also don't want to envision a world without Apple and it's thorough and complete dominance over the innovation side of tech.
No Apple II or Mac = no Windows GUI
No iPhone = no Android with touch
No iPad = not even ONE manufacturer would have even tried a tablet. All indicators pointed to "fail".
However... we would be awash with trashy computers and devices with styli, little buttons, netbook-style, command-line-CRAP! With probably not a mouse in sight I might add.
Apple finally got sick and tired of being ripped off, mugged, technically raped and left for dead... took too long IMHO.
"Zen" thinking however DID have a nice pay-out... so yes, in the case of Apple BILLIONS (in caps) is something I, as a 25+ year user and shareholder.... am quite proud of, and have no regrets or argument with their business decisions.
True Fanboy I am
The modern computer GUI and mouse came from Xerox.
let's not even talk about where touch screen or tablets come from.
The modern computer GUI and mouse came from Xerox.
let's not even talk about where touch screen or tablets come from.
The mouse really came from SRI. The GUI also traces back there, but it's very fair to say Xerox PARC computer scientists invented elements such as windows, menus, etc.
Apple has been hoisted by their own petard!
If you're going to use famous quotes, at least get them right.
Joking aside, the more of these details that come out, the more it seems that Apple didn't really play ball when it came to the patents for the iPhone. They just built it, released it and then worried about what they had infringed.
It could end up being a very costly decision. This, the Nokia patents, anything Samsung can make stick...etc.
To be fair, they were coming into the game as newbies, but there's still a right and wrong way of doing things.
Thats catagoricaly not true. Apple did offer to pay frand fees in 2007 but also wanted to keep the right to contest those fees if motorola asked for more than frand rates. There lawyers were able to convince the court in manheim that that was a breach of the frand contract. You need to read Foss Patents FLORIAN MUELLER's blog on this case to really understand what is going on here
When there is no 3G connection, it goes down to 2.5G: EDGE.
I have never seen 2G, but I live an modern country.
GPRS is a fast 2G data transfer protocol. 128Kb. This is something that is completely uninteresting for an iPhone user. Apple should therefore simply paths iOS to remove GPRS. When people are in 2G only settings they would be able to call, use EDGE but not use GPRS.
Modern country? If your country is so modern, why doesn't it have 3G coverage to the extreme of their 2.5G coverage?
There were a number of operators around the world that went straight from GPRS to 3G, EDGE didn't give enough of an advantage
Thats catagoricaly not true. Apple did offer to pay frand fees in 2007 but also wanted to keep the right to contest those fees if motorola asked for more than frand rates. There lawyers were able to convince the court in manheim that that was a breach of the frand contract. You need to read Foss Patents FLORIAN MUELLER's blog on this case to really understand what is going on here
Incorrect. Apple attempted to add a clause to the FRAND licensing contract allowing them to challenge the validity of Motorola's patent according to several articles. It had nothing to do with Moto uping the ante on Apple alone, or treating them unfairly. That was their courtroom claim.
Motorola reportedly offered Apple the same terms as everyone else. Apple created the problem themselves by trying to change the contract, then refusing to sign when Moto said no to the changes.
Incorrect. Apple attempted to add a clause to the FRAND licensing contract allowing them to challenge the validity of Motorola's patent according to several articles. It had nothing to do with Moto uping the ante on Apple alone, or treating them unfairly. That was their courtroom claim.
Motorola reportedly offered Apple the same terms as everyone else. Apple created the problem themselves by trying to change the contract, then refusing to sign when Moto said no to the changes.
To be more specific, FRAND. The ND stands for Non-Discriminatory. Moto offered this to Apple in 2007. Apple did not accept, they wanted special terms, ala discriminatory. this gave Moto the right to decline and sue. Apple did steal this tech. Moto also tried to license this again to Apple again in 2010, no dice.
Let us hope that the judge finally teaches Apple that they cannot afford any longer to steal from other people.
Let us hope that the judge imposes penalties so astronomically hight that Apple never steals anything ever again. That would be called "justice".
Don't get all excite yet. As a troll I am sure you are thrilled with this development but the battle isn't over until money and how much of it changes hands and that hasn't happened yet and won't be for quite some time.
Qualcomm no doubt engages in FRAND licensing of a patent seemed "essential" to a standard technology. This means Moto is already receiving a royalty from Apple, albeit indirectly.
Does the EU have the same concept of patent exhaustion?
Oh well. What comes around goes around. I couldn't definitively say whether karma truly exists, but I must say it's hard to disprove its existence after all these events.
Apple should stick to doing what it does best: Taking existing concepts and ideas and refining upon them to create something cool. I like(d) that Apple better than the current one.
Germans like their tech and can afford it
Interesting statement. Have you lived in Germany? I have and tech is certainly not one of the German's strong points. Obviously there are plenty of geeks. Go beyond that group and you have a technically naive group that hardly embraces tech. As far as "can afford it"; German household net worth is far from the top of the ladder in Europe. Italy (substantially higher), Spain and Ireland (all labeled as financially troubled countries) are all higher than the German household net worth.
German's still believe in the Fatherland. That's where the money is. The population, on-the-other-hand, takes it in the rear and is proud of it.