Sweden, UK may also investigate Apple's '4G' marketing for new iPad

245678

Comments

  • island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by herbapou View Post


    I dont know who is in charge on the international launch at Apple but what an idiot.



    Before I saw your comment I was thinking that somebody (or maybe more than 1 person) will no longer be working at Apple by this weekend.
  • byzantiumbyzantium Posts: 1member
    If their issue is with the 4G monicker should they not be investigating all wireless device makers for their use of the 4G monicker? As AppleInsider has pointed out in a previous article no wireless standard currently in use meets the minimum requirements set forth by the wireless standards commission to be a true 4G
  • eliangonzaleliangonzal Posts: 364member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Heatgate, chargegate, 4Ggate....



    What #gate are we up to now? How are we doing relative to past product intros?



    My bet would be on Weightgate. I am expecting a lawsuit stating that Apple didn't tell people outright the new iPad is heavier than the iPad 2, which is deceptive and causes physical harm when holding it in one hand *because* it looks like the former model.



    I think I'll send Consumer Reports a tip.
  • charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,068member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jonteponte View Post




    So. Apple really need to start working on their communication skills when it comes to stuff like this or the operators might go from being pushed around to feeling downright ignored.




    They made a clear statement in the keynote, on the site etc. if the folks at your carrier are too stupid to understand those statements and tell their reps the info that isn't Apple's fault



    Next up we'll have someone sue because the iPad claims to have wifi but no where on the iPad page does it say that wifi isn't everywhere and you have to pay for hone Internet, a router etc
  • island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    They made a clear statement in the keynote, on the site etc. if the folks at your carrier are too stupid to understand those statements and tell their reps the info that isn't Apple's fault



    We'll see.
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post


    It still has mobile Internet everywhere, just 3G. Dumb as hell to call it 4G, but also pretty stupid how much all the countries botched LTE frequency allocation.



    Will there be any "world phone" models that support LTE everywhere?



    1. According to the ITU (which sets the standards), HSPA+ is 4G. So Apple is well within its rights to call it a 4G device. One could possibly make an exception in countries where the local law uses a different definition (like Australia), but even that argument would be weak.



    2. The fact is that it IS a 4G LTE device. Let's say that I live in a cave where regular cell service is not accessible. I buy an iPhone 4S. I can not plausibly claim that it's not a 3G phone because I live in a cave and can't get service. It remains a 3G phone even if I can't get service where I am. It doesn't magically stop being a 3G phone when I carry it into a cave. Similarly, a LTE device does not stop being an LTE device if I take it a location where LTE isn't available.



    3. Apple's advertising is quite clear as to which countries can use the iPad via LTE. No deception.



    4. Now, it's entirely possible that one might be able to make a claim against the carrier who sold you an iPad if they tell you that it will use LTE in your country and it doesn't. But that's not Apple's fault.
  • herbapouherbapou Posts: 2,173member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    Before I saw your comment I was thinking that somebody (or maybe more than 1 person) will no longer be working at Apple by this weekend.



    They should had already take down the international apple websites and replace 4g by 3g by now... someone is sleeping on the job.



    Anyone know if the ipads will enventually be compatible with 4g in EU or australia? They could put 3g (4g soon) if its the case.
  • prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Therbo View Post


    If you goto http://www.apple.com/uk/ipad/ showing as 4G.



    I think people are seriously over-reacting here.



    This link leads to the UK iPad page, but it *doesn't* actually market the device as compatible with UK or European 4G networks. You have to go to the second page to even find a *mention* of 4G. When you do find it, it's halfway down the page, and has a disclaimer that when they say "4G LTE" they only mean North America.



    The only people buying this outside of North America who think it will work on their 4G networks are idiots who don't actually read the fine print.



    Personally, if I was in charge at Apple, I would have made it clearer and put it right up front, but the fact that it only works on North American 4G LTE is actually clearly stated (albeit in fine print) on everything. These kinds of "fine print" shenanigans are not very nice, but every other company does this and gets a pass, so why should Apple be any different?
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post


    If their issue is with the 4G monicker should they not be investigating all wireless device makers for their use of the 4G monicker?



    You seem to forget that Apple is always the one to get picked on. It is always unfair. Apple has the clearest advertising of anybody, and yet they get trashed. By standing with Apple, we can be on the side of truth and light, fighting the forces of lies and darkness.







    /s
  • gatorguygatorguy Posts: 14,376member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    1. According to the ITU (which sets the standards), HSPA+ is 4G. So Apple is well within its rights to call it a 4G device. One could possibly make an exception in countries where the local law uses a different definition (like Australia), but even that argument would be weak.



    2. The fact is that it IS a 4G LTE device. Let's say that I live in a cave where regular cell service is not accessible. I buy an iPhone 4S. I can not plausibly claim that it's not a 3G phone because I live in a cave and can't get service. It remains a 3G phone even if I can't get service where I am. It doesn't magically stop being a 3G phone when I carry it into a cave. Similarly, a LTE device does not stop being an LTE device if I take it a location where LTE isn't available.



    3. Apple's advertising is quite clear as to which countries can use the iPad via LTE. No deception.



    4. Now, it's entirely possible that one might be able to make a claim against the carrier who sold you an iPad if they tell you that it will use LTE in your country and it doesn't. But that's not Apple's fault.



    Couldn't Apple make all those points moot with a simple straightforward statement on the order page that 4G services aren't available to your country? They have country-specific pages making it any easy thing for them to do...

    unless thy have marketing reasons not to do so.



    This is probably the fairest comment I've seen yet on the issue:

    "I think, the best a company can do in such a situation, is to be very clear about the capabilities by using the terms for technical capabilities that are usually used in the respective country. And by "very clear" I do not necessarily mean a footnote in small print in light grey on white background. It's a matter of showing that you respect your (potential) customers."

    http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...4&postcount=68
  • island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    I think people are seriously over-reacting here.



    This link leads to the UK iPad page, but it *doesn't* actually market the device as compatible with UK or European 4G networks. You have to go to the second page to even find a *mention* of 4G. When you do find it, it's halfway down the page, and has a disclaimer that when they say "4G LTE" they only mean North America.



    The only people buying this outside of North America who think it will work on their 4G networks are idiots who don't actually read the fine print.



    Personally, if I was in charge at Apple, I would have made it clearer and put it right up front, but the fact that it only works on North American 4G LTE is actually clearly stated (albeit in fine print) on everything. These kinds of "fine print" shenanigans are not very nice, but every other company does this and gets a pass, so why should Apple be any different?



    Huh? From the same link, 1st page:



    Ultra-fast 4G. Full speed ahead.

    Designed with next-generation wireless technology, the new iPad with Wi-Fi + 4G connects to fast data networks around the world. So you can download content, stream video and browse the web at amazing speeds. Learn more



    Why should people have to read fine print every time they buy a product. A feature like this should have a description in plain sight.
  • tinman0tinman0 Posts: 168member
    Apple can't win really. If they sold it without the 4G moniker people would be complaining that "it doesn't support the future protocol", etc.



    Anyway, run it past me again: we were all buying HD Ready tvs and there was no HD signal?



    Apple are damned if they do, damned if they don't.
  • thataveragejoethataveragejoe Posts: 830member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    1. According to the ITU (which sets the standards), HSPA+ is 4G. So Apple is well within its rights to call it a 4G device. One could possibly make an exception in countries where the local law uses a different definition (like Australia), but even that argument would be weak.



    Wrong. ITU is just an agency of the UN issuing guidelines. It's not the ISO. It does NOT write laws and essentially has no teeth in the matter. Further in this case the ITU has yet to SPECIFICALLY say what is or is not a 4th generation wireless network. It has revised its previous guidelines so that something like HSPA+ MAY qualify but it is far from black and white.



    The ITU guidelines do NOT trump governmental law. This is the exactly the case in Australia where they have specifically defined 4G to mean LTE only. Period. Even HSPA+ Android devices and tablets are called and marketed as 3G. It's not a weak argument, it's rule of the roost Down Under and we'll probably learn other areas as well.



    Is Apple intentionally trying to be misleading? No. Can it be seen by consumers and argued that it's confusing or not very obvious? Yes.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by tinman0 View Post




    Anyway, run it past me again: we were all buying HD Ready tvs and there was no HD signal?






    Two reasons: Other inputs made use of the HD capability. And HD OTA was being added quickly, while HD CATV was being added quickly too.



    And maybe some TV compnies used misleading advertising too?
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    Why should people have to read fine print every time they buy a product.



    Because big multinational companies issue misleading advertising?
  • tnsftnsf Posts: 202member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Lawyers for Apple also informed the ACCC that it is willing to post disclaimers online and at retail locations informing customers that the new iPad is incompatible with Australia's 4G networks.



    I think they mean Australia's 4G networks are not compatible with the new iPad.



    Get your act together Australia.
  • granmastakgranmastak Posts: 298member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post


    Two reasons: Other inputs made use of the HD capability. And HD OTA was being added quickly, while HD CATV was being added quickly too.



    And maybe some TV compnies used misleading advertising too?



    Misleading advertising is so common though. You walk by a bank and they advertise mortgage rates "as low as" when if fact this rate likely does not apply to you. . But the rate is in huge font while the footnotes tell you the real story. Obviously this is bait to get people to call or stop by.



    Some counties have little tolerance for such practices, consumer protection is favored over clever marketing tactics. In the US its buyer beware, you have to be an educated consumer to be able to tell fact from fiction.



    The only non deceptive advertising I've seen is the drugomercials "may cause seizure, brain damage, even death". I think the drug companies were forced to do this though.
  • irnchrizirnchriz Posts: 1,397member
    The UK store has carried the following since befor the launch:



    The iPad with Wi-Fi + 4G model can roam worldwide on fast GSM/UMTS networks, including HSPA, HSPA+, and DC-HSDPA. When you travel internationally, you can use a micro-SIM card from a local carrier. You can also connect to the 4G LTE networks of AT&T in the U.S. and Bell, Rogers, and Telus in Canada.



    There is also a note on the Wi-Fi + 4G feature page which states:



    * 4G LTE is supported only on AT&T and Verizon networks in the US, and on Bell, Rogers and Telus networks in Canada. Data plans sold separately. See your carrier for details.





    I agree that the 4G moniker is of little relevance tot he UK market however it is a feature of the iPad whether it is available in the UK or not.



    It would probably have been wise to have labeled it Wi-Fi + 3G / 4G* then had the disclaimer notice.



    However the fact of the matter is that the notice is there, if you are dropping 400 quid on a gadget you should be reading the description on the web page.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by success View Post


    If you change your mind, I'm the first in line to the Apple Store

    Honey I'm still 3G Take a chance on me



    That took me a second but I got it.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Heatgate, chargegate, 4Ggate....



    What #gate are we up to now? How are we doing relative to past product intros?



    Maybe Apple creates these small, silly upsets on purpose to get free publicity. Oh shit, did I create gategate?!





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post


    Nothing is confusing there. IMHO this is a completely made up BS story just to milk Apple for some $$.



    It all seems above board to me.
    World ready. And very well connected.

    You use your iPad a lot, so you want it with you wherever you go. The new iPad offers the most comprehensive support for networks around the world. It?s designed with mobile antennas that access a larger frequency spectrum. That means you can get online almost anywhere you are. You can even pop in a local SIM card to get a connection when you?re travelling. Learn more about iPad with Wi-Fi + 4G



    Really really fast is your only option.

    The new iPad supports fast mobile networks the world over ? up to 4G LTE*. So you can browse the web, stream content or download a film at incredibly fast speeds. It also works on GSM/UMTS worldwide network technologies, including HSPA, HSPA+ and DC-HSDPA ? the fastest 3G networks out there. You?ll see downlink speeds up to 42 Mbps with DC-HSDPA and up to 21.1 Mbps with HSPA+**.
    It even shows a new icon.




    Built with the latest in wireless technology, the new iPad lets you connect to fast data networks around the world.*
    * 4G LTE is supported only on AT&T and Verizon networks in the US, and on Bell, Rogers and Telus networks in Canada. Data plans sold separately. See your carrier for details.



    ** Based on theoretical peak speeds. Actual speeds will be lower.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post


    If their issue is with the 4G monicker should they not be investigating all wireless device makers for their use of the 4G monicker? As AppleInsider has pointed out in a previous article no wireless standard currently in use meets the minimum requirements set forth by the wireless standards commission to be a true 4G



    What's funny is that at first people were complaining because it didn't have LTE that worked in their country... yet now those same people are saying Apple lied to them about LTE working in their country. So they started off understanding that is didn't and now are feeling duped? Doesn't make any sense unless they are trying to get something for free.
  • nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,134member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    Huh? From the same link, 1st page:



    Ultra-fast 4G. Full speed ahead.

    Designed with next-generation wireless technology, the new iPad with Wi-Fi + 4G connects to fast data networks around the world. So you can download content, stream video and browse the web at amazing speeds. Learn more



    Why should people have to read fine print every time they buy a product. A feature like this should have a description in plain sight.



    All I see is Ultra-fast Wireless. Are you sure you are at the UK page?



Sign In or Register to comment.