Clueless!!!! This is such bullshit! It is the carriers that are misleading consumers! There are no true 4G LTE networks AMYWHERE on the world! They all fall way short of true LTE speeds of 100 Mbps! And in fact, as you point out, with the wireless technology included with the new iPad (HSPA+) it EXCEEDS the lower technical spec range claimed by so called 4G LTE networks. People are being duped by the carriers themselves!!!
I think you need to be more specific, people are likely to be confused about what you're talking about
90Mbps if you count the upload and download speeds together.
But just to illustrate the point of why the Aussies and the Europeans are being a bit silly about this, is that:
1) The ipad with the cellular radio does have a LTE radio.
2) The ITU defines 4G as 100Mbps downstream
3) Australia defines 4G by their government as LTE
So Apple is correct, the iPad is a 4G device, by Australia's definition. Apple even puts warnings on their websites and the devices that say that it does not connect to Australian 4G networks. That's Australia's problem for picking incompatible frequencies, and their carriers problem for deploying LTE on bands that the only chip Qualcomm makes doesn't support. Just like T-mobile's problem for deploying HSPA+ and not LTE on AWS frequencies in the US, and other carriers for using CDMA2000 (like Sprint)
The governments are responsible for this mess. Not Apple.
They should put that quote at the of the page in enormous bold letters. That way nobody outside the US/Canada would waste their money buying the WiFi+4G version.
That's a ridiculous statement. The WiFi/4G iPad will still work just fine in other countries - just not with LTE. So if you want to use the iPad away from WiFi hotspots, you need the 4G model.
And since 3G is faster in many countries than in the US, you won't even be giving up much in the way of speed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
Why doesn't Apple simply do what HTC, Samsung, etc... do and put country specific radios in each device? It does suck to know that you're buying a device that doesn't work to it's full potential in your country...
I suspect that they will eventually do so at some point. That doesn't change the facts of the case, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK
If it doesn't support 4G in a country then they shouldn't effing well advertise it as 4G in that country. HOW HARD IS THAT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND.
It still has an LTE radio whether you can use it or not. That's like not allowing Subaru to advertise their cars as having AWD simply because you only want 2WD. It's there if your carrier can take advantage of it. Whether you can use it in your country is between you and your carrier.
Furthermore, Apple's advertising says "UP TO 4G LTE". What part of "up to" don't you understand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe
I dropped it for redundancy of the point, but ok fine, Wifi + 3G + US LTE.
...ooookkkk but the device ONLY works on US LTE so calling it as such seems simple and appropriate for international purposes.
That's silly - it has an LTE radio in it and there's nothing wrong with advertising it as such. Furthermore, even in countries without LTE, it can still operate at 4G speeds if they have HSPA+.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando
Maybe Apple should have said the new iPad was "4G Ready"
:-)
The whiners would still be complaining. "It says 4G ready, but it will never work in my country".
But just to illustrate the point of why the Aussies and the Europeans are being a bit silly about this, is that:
1) The ipad with the cellular radio does have a LTE radio.
2) The ITU defines 4G as 100Mbps downstream
3) Australia defines 4G by their government as LTE
Point 1: Correct
Point 2: Incorrect
Point 3: Don't know
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misa
That's Australia's problem for picking incompatible frequencies, and their carriers problem for deploying LTE on bands that the only chip Qualcomm makes doesn't support.
The governments are responsible for this mess. Not Apple
Picking incompatible frequencies is LTE's whole problem, but it is the US, where the frequencies allocated to operators are differing from most of the world (1.7/2.1, 0.7. 1.9 GHz in the US).
Overall the spread is wider than it was in WCDMA which is bad for the consumers as it will take time to get true worldwide working devices. You'll need something like octa-band devices, when the greates at the moment is penta-band
That's a ridiculous statement. The WiFi/4G iPad will still work just fine in other countries - just not with LTE. So if you want to use the iPad away from WiFi hotspots, you need the 4G model.
And since 3G is faster in many countries than in the US, you won't even be giving up much in the way of speed.
I suspect that they will eventually do so at some point. That doesn't change the facts of the case, though.
It still has an LTE radio whether you can use it or not. That's like not allowing Subaru to advertise their cars as having AWD simply because you only want 2WD. It's there if your carrier can take advantage of it. Whether you can use it in your country is between you and your carrier.
Furthermore, Apple's advertising says "UP TO 4G LTE". What part of "up to" don't you understand?
That's silly - it has an LTE radio in it and there's nothing wrong with advertising it as such. Furthermore, even in countries without LTE, it can still operate at 4G speeds if they have HSPA+.
The whiners would still be complaining. "It says 4G ready, but it will never work in my country".
You just don't get it do you.
HSPA+ is NOT considered to be or advertised as 4G in the UK.
Why? Because the government are planning to auction the 4G spectrum next year so it would be MISLEADING.
Even when we do get 4G the iPad STILL WON?T WORK on 4G coz Apple in their wisdom chose not support any of the 4G bands outside the US and Canada.
It's very clear to anyone who doesn't have their head stuck up Apple's backside that Apple have made a mistake and should have stuck with "WiFi + 3G" for their advertising everywhere outside the US/Canada were the bloody thing actually works.
My prediction: The ASA will make Apple change their wording in the UK within the next few days/weeks.
My prediction: The ASA will make Apple change their wording in the UK within the next few days/weeks.
1) It's your prediction. It may or may not come to pass. We'll see.
2) Even if it comes to pass, it's not such a big deal for Apple to tweak its message. It does seem to be based on the governments' premise that the consumer is a bit stupid, and that's condescending. However, as its user base expands to Windows-like numbers, this is an issue that Apple will have to get used to and learn to live with.
3) Despite the fact that a company is philosophically right (which Apple is, in this instance), sometimes, it has to bend to the unfortunate exigencies of media and public policy FUD. Witness, for instance, the untruths about Foxconn, or the lame attempts by the US government to go after Apple over its privacy policies, book pricing and so forth. That's the nature of the beast.
1) It's your prediction. It may or may not come to pass. We'll see.
2) Even if it comes to pass, it's not such a big deal for Apple to tweak its message. It does seem to be based on the governments' premise that the consumer is a bit stupid, and that's condescending. However, as its user base expands to Windows-like numbers, this is an issue that Apple will have to get used to and learn to live with.
3) Despite the fact that a company is philosophically right (which Apple is, in this instance), sometimes, it has to bend to the unfortunate exigencies of media and public policy FUD. Witness, for instance, the untruths about Foxconn, or the lame attempts by the DoJ to go after Apple over its privacy policies, book pricing and so forth. That's the nature of the beast.
90Mbps if you count the upload and download speeds together.
Impressive speeds!
Quote:
But just to illustrate the point of why the Aussies and the Europeans are being a bit silly about this, is that:
1) The ipad with the cellular radio does have a LTE radio.
2) The ITU defines 4G as 100Mbps downstream
3) Australia defines 4G by their government as LTE
So Apple is correct, the iPad is a 4G device, by Australia's definition. Apple even puts warnings on their websites and the devices that say that it does not connect to Australian 4G networks. That's Australia's problem for picking incompatible frequencies, and their carriers problem for deploying LTE on bands that the only chip Qualcomm makes doesn't support. Just like T-mobile's problem for deploying HSPA+ and not LTE on AWS frequencies in the US, and other carriers for using CDMA2000 (like Sprint)
The governments are responsible for this mess. Not Apple.
I don't think anyone is disputing that Apple is technically correct but for a company that definitely knows what it is doing in terms of communicating with its customer base and marketing in general, and is also a company that is all about making the technology part of its products as invisible and user friendly as possible, hiding behind technical specs or 'the fine print', is weak. I am pretty certain that everybody at Apple knows damn well that people by and large are confused about 4g. So if you if you claim your product is '4g', it better be '4g' (whatever that is, wherever), period. Its not complicated.
But I like your conclusion and full hardly concur - Its the Government!
I agree if it was sold as '4G', however in this specific case Apple sells it as '4G LTE'. Which is too specific to be misinterpreted.
Oh sure... but ask Mr./Ms. Anybody and the vast majority will not know the difference... all they see is the 4G... which leads to misinterpretation.
Most of this shit is a foreign language to most people, so when they see, "the new iPad with Wi-Fi + 4G connects to fast data networks around the world."... most of them will take that at face value (re: 4G connects to fast data networks around the world.)
Who should be educating them at that point is up for debate but Apple could help in the matter by making the disclaimer more obvious, imho.
Blame it on the carriers as they were the ones who started this whole mess called "4G" when the ITU doesn't has already mentioned what can be declared "4G".
Steve Job gone and now Apple is run by a bunch of idiots. First stupid iPad name ( how they gonna call next iPad? New new iPad? Double new iPad?) and then worldwide 4G advertising campaign for a device with 4G support only in North America
So, when do the class action suits start in all of these countries for claiming that LTE is 4G when only LTE Advanced (which has not been implemented anywhere) meets the proposed 4G standard from the ITU-R? I figure you could sue all the carriers, equipment manufacturers, and maybe even the Telco governing bodies in every one of these countries.
Interesting thing is that the reason that LTE in N.A. is in the 700 band is because the Digital TV conversion has been completed and those frequencies were auctioned off. Other countries have NOT adopted this spectrum because they are still supporting analog TV broadcasts.
3. Apple's advertising is quite clear as to which countries can use the iPad via LTE. No deception.
Consumer protection laws in some countries don't allow the use of overly small print to restrict the consumers rights/expectations below the overall message shown in the big print.
The problem is they haven't been totally clear. Did you miss the comments from the Swedish poster on this page? Comments from a couple of Australian buyers? One from a German poster?
Are you now saying buyers shouldn't trust the big type on Apple's country-specific sales sites and instead look to see what Apple is hiding in the footnotes? Seems a bit sneaky to me and very un-Apple.
Yep, because that stuff is there to help a buyer make an informed choice,
Is the human race really degenerating into a pack of illiterate idiots who have to be spoon fed everything at the behest of nanny-state governments?
Consumer protection laws in some countries don't allow the use of overly small print to restrict the consumers rights/expectations below the overall message shown in the big print.
Oh please lord, everybody read this.
It is not condescending to the consumer to protect them as suggested elsewhere. Putting protections in place does not imply that the average consumer is an idiot. If we spent all day reading the fine print no one would be buying anything.
I know there are some people on here who have done so, but what sane person has the time to read or understand the apple eula, for instance.
It is not condescending to the consumer to protect them as suggested elsewhere. Putting protections in place does not imply that the average consumer is an idiot. If we spent all day reading the fine print no one would be buying anything.
I know there are some people on here who have done so, but what sane person has the time to read or understand the apple eula, for instance.
Perhaps if government put ANY disclaimers of any size on their election posters, they would work on governing the country and dealing with real issues as opposed to looking for publicity by chasing things like this.
I understand the concept of consumer protection, but Apple has agreed to refund any dissatisfied customers their complete purchase price. It sounds to me that consumers in these countries want to have their iPads AND get paid for owning them because they can't be bothered to do any research before dropping a large bundle of cash on an expensive luxury item.
I understand the concept of consumer protection, but Apple has agreed to refund any dissatisfied customers their complete purchase price. It sounds to me that consumers in these countries want to have their iPads AND get paid for owning them because they can't be bothered to do any research before dropping a large bundle of cash on an expensive luxury item.
Depends. In Australia it might be the tail wagging the dog, the ACCC has become quite aggressive in light of new laws. A recent barrage was regarding limited warranties of only 1 year, and they've definitely been firing various warning shots in the past few months on a range of things. FWIW the Australian media generally did not talk about "4G ripoff" until the ACCC brought it up, and even then the story is about the consumer watchdog, and not about consumers complaining. Also FWIW part of this is because telco salespeople are not as scummy as the UK or Asia, from my experience. Part of it could also be because only Telstra has started large scale 4G LTE rollouts, not Optus nor the even-further-behind Vodafone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Yep, because that stuff is there to help a buyer make an informed choice,
Is the human race really degenerating into a pack of illiterate idiots who have to be spoon fed everything at the behest of nanny-state governments?
If so the 'Information age' is a lie.
Spoonfed Facebook and brain-cell-reducing Interwebz. Remember when we were kids and watching TV would rot our brain? Now I can go and yell at kids on the Internet whose IQs decrease with every hour spent online. In other words, every generation is either getting smarter or dumber. It's a glass half-empty/full kinda thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
Consumer protection laws in some countries don't allow the use of overly small print to restrict the consumers rights/expectations below the overall message shown in the big print.
It is generally frowned upon in Australia and despite arguments about it being a nanny state, there are at least some structures in place and it has and will stand the country in good stead for the next 50 years as everything becomes "Asianised". I know it's the ol' slippery-slope argument, but outside of the developed world, it's sheer chaos. I like waking up in the morning and knowing my government is not out to rape me, at least not as much as in Asia... and that my government would at least be a little concerned if I died in the street because I ran out of money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Betruger
Steve Job gone and now Apple is run by a bunch of idiots. First stupid iPad name ( how they gonna call next iPad? New new iPad? Double new iPad?) and then worldwide 4G advertising campaign for a device with 4G support only in North America
It might be something Steve could have done in the past, we don't know. But certainly I think Apple could have done better with the naming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi
Blame it on the carriers as they were the ones who started this whole mess called "4G" when the ITU doesn't has already mentioned what can be declared "4G".
The thing is that most countries would not allow AT&T to blatantly call 3G 4G, despite ITU or whatever. 4G is 4G, 3G is 3G. In other words, 4G is not 3G, even though we don't really know what 4G and 3G is. The point is that 4G is not what 3G currently is. The distinction can be fine, but it's also quite obvious. Telcos and countries are clear on this. Apple took a leap... of faith, perhaps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Apple iPad Wifi + ≥3G.
Apple iPad WiFi + ≥2G ... Lest people complain that iPad works on 2G/Edge when it wasn't advertised as such... "Apple didn't say it works on 2G! I'm upset because I have been subject to rubbish speeds when I would have preferred no connection at all! Give me mah refund!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK
You just don't get it do you.
HSPA+ is NOT considered to be or advertised as 4G in the UK.
Why? Because the government are planning to auction the 4G spectrum next year so it would be MISLEADING.
Even when we do get 4G the iPad STILL WON’T WORK on 4G coz Apple in their wisdom chose not support any of the 4G bands outside the US and Canada.
It's very clear to anyone who doesn't have their head stuck up Apple's backside that Apple have made a mistake and should have stuck with "WiFi + 3G" for their advertising everywhere outside the US/Canada were the bloody thing actually works.
Should Apple be sued? No. Should Apple adjust accordingly in light of country regulations? Definitely. Also in light of Apple facing a lot of scrutiny over AppleCare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody
Of course, but the law has no teeth (at least in North America), and hasn't had for about 40 years or so.
I know in Canada at least, when the rules were codified in the 70's most of what we now take as "normal" was considered illegal. The laws haven't changed but no one enforces them and the few times it's pushed forward by a (necessarily wealthy) third party, the petitioner basically fails almost 100% of the time.
In any case my point was more philosophical. Advertising is based on deception. The whole point of it is to misdirect or fool the consumer into thinking something is A when it's really B. All adverts are this way in that their purpose is to manage perceptions, not to state true facts about a product.
To me, in Australia it has been following a similar trend but over the past decade there has been various measures put in place to prevent things from spiralling out of control. For example, most insurance can be marketed fairly liberally but the PDS (Product Disclosure Statement) has to be pretty clear. In Australia as well, compared to the US, there tends to be more emphasis on some sort of mediation with various government or non-government body(s) before legal action is taken, it reduces the burden on the court system. Can it be improved? Probably. But it's somewhat different still, the courts are not always expected to be the final arbiter. That said, from recently returning here, I notice that Australia is at a crossroads of sorts, between more economic liberalisation (socially things are rather liberal) and old-school semi(?)-protectionism.
The thing is that most countries would not allow AT&T to blatantly call 3G 4G, despite ITU or whatever. 4G is 4G, 3G is 3G. Telcos and countries are clear on this. Apple took a leap... of faith, perhaps..
But you see, this is the problem ... The ITU is THE United Nations governing body that DOES make the recommendations that governments are supposed to follow. And the current recommendation allows for HSPA+ to be considered 4G. If you want to abide by the recommendation that they are working on, then the device must be able to support 100 Mb/sec mobile and 1 Gb/sec stationary, which no LTE device can reach. According to the recommendation, you would need an LTE Advanced device to reach those speeds and none of those exist.
So, the crux is ... If you use the older recommendation, the iPad meets the spec - if you use the newer proposed spec, then the Aussie Telcos do not meet the spec either. For the Aussie, Swedish, UK, or any other body to unilaterally determine that LTE meets what is considered to be 4G is blatantly hypocritical and smacks of either pandering to their public or protectionism of their telcos.
Comments
Clueless!!!! This is such bullshit! It is the carriers that are misleading consumers! There are no true 4G LTE networks AMYWHERE on the world! They all fall way short of true LTE speeds of 100 Mbps! And in fact, as you point out, with the wireless technology included with the new iPad (HSPA+) it EXCEEDS the lower technical spec range claimed by so called 4G LTE networks. People are being duped by the carriers themselves!!!
I think you need to be more specific, people are likely to be confused about what you're talking about
90Mbps if you count the upload and download speeds together.
But just to illustrate the point of why the Aussies and the Europeans are being a bit silly about this, is that:
1) The ipad with the cellular radio does have a LTE radio.
2) The ITU defines 4G as 100Mbps downstream
3) Australia defines 4G by their government as LTE
So Apple is correct, the iPad is a 4G device, by Australia's definition. Apple even puts warnings on their websites and the devices that say that it does not connect to Australian 4G networks. That's Australia's problem for picking incompatible frequencies, and their carriers problem for deploying LTE on bands that the only chip Qualcomm makes doesn't support. Just like T-mobile's problem for deploying HSPA+ and not LTE on AWS frequencies in the US, and other carriers for using CDMA2000 (like Sprint)
The governments are responsible for this mess. Not Apple.
They should put that quote at the of the page in enormous bold letters. That way nobody outside the US/Canada would waste their money buying the WiFi+4G version.
That's a ridiculous statement. The WiFi/4G iPad will still work just fine in other countries - just not with LTE. So if you want to use the iPad away from WiFi hotspots, you need the 4G model.
And since 3G is faster in many countries than in the US, you won't even be giving up much in the way of speed.
Why doesn't Apple simply do what HTC, Samsung, etc... do and put country specific radios in each device? It does suck to know that you're buying a device that doesn't work to it's full potential in your country...
I suspect that they will eventually do so at some point. That doesn't change the facts of the case, though.
If it doesn't support 4G in a country then they shouldn't effing well advertise it as 4G in that country. HOW HARD IS THAT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND.
It still has an LTE radio whether you can use it or not. That's like not allowing Subaru to advertise their cars as having AWD simply because you only want 2WD. It's there if your carrier can take advantage of it. Whether you can use it in your country is between you and your carrier.
Furthermore, Apple's advertising says "UP TO 4G LTE". What part of "up to" don't you understand?
I dropped it for redundancy of the point, but ok fine, Wifi + 3G + US LTE.
...ooookkkk but the device ONLY works on US LTE so calling it as such seems simple and appropriate for international purposes.
That's silly - it has an LTE radio in it and there's nothing wrong with advertising it as such. Furthermore, even in countries without LTE, it can still operate at 4G speeds if they have HSPA+.
Maybe Apple should have said the new iPad was "4G Ready"
:-)
The whiners would still be complaining. "It says 4G ready, but it will never work in my country".
But just to illustrate the point of why the Aussies and the Europeans are being a bit silly about this, is that:
1) The ipad with the cellular radio does have a LTE radio.
2) The ITU defines 4G as 100Mbps downstream
3) Australia defines 4G by their government as LTE
Point 1: Correct
Point 2: Incorrect
Point 3: Don't know
That's Australia's problem for picking incompatible frequencies, and their carriers problem for deploying LTE on bands that the only chip Qualcomm makes doesn't support.
The governments are responsible for this mess. Not Apple
Picking incompatible frequencies is LTE's whole problem, but it is the US, where the frequencies allocated to operators are differing from most of the world (1.7/2.1, 0.7. 1.9 GHz in the US).
If you look at this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LTE_networks, you'll notice that MOST of the world's networks use 2.6GHz or 1.8GHz 0.8GHz and 0.9GHz.
Overall the spread is wider than it was in WCDMA which is bad for the consumers as it will take time to get true worldwide working devices. You'll need something like octa-band devices, when the greates at the moment is penta-band
Regs, Jarkko
That's a ridiculous statement. The WiFi/4G iPad will still work just fine in other countries - just not with LTE. So if you want to use the iPad away from WiFi hotspots, you need the 4G model.
And since 3G is faster in many countries than in the US, you won't even be giving up much in the way of speed.
I suspect that they will eventually do so at some point. That doesn't change the facts of the case, though.
It still has an LTE radio whether you can use it or not. That's like not allowing Subaru to advertise their cars as having AWD simply because you only want 2WD. It's there if your carrier can take advantage of it. Whether you can use it in your country is between you and your carrier.
Furthermore, Apple's advertising says "UP TO 4G LTE". What part of "up to" don't you understand?
That's silly - it has an LTE radio in it and there's nothing wrong with advertising it as such. Furthermore, even in countries without LTE, it can still operate at 4G speeds if they have HSPA+.
The whiners would still be complaining. "It says 4G ready, but it will never work in my country".
You just don't get it do you.
HSPA+ is NOT considered to be or advertised as 4G in the UK.
Why? Because the government are planning to auction the 4G spectrum next year so it would be MISLEADING.
Even when we do get 4G the iPad STILL WON?T WORK on 4G coz Apple in their wisdom chose not support any of the 4G bands outside the US and Canada.
It's very clear to anyone who doesn't have their head stuck up Apple's backside that Apple have made a mistake and should have stuck with "WiFi + 3G" for their advertising everywhere outside the US/Canada were the bloody thing actually works.
My prediction: The ASA will make Apple change their wording in the UK within the next few days/weeks.
My prediction: The ASA will make Apple change their wording in the UK within the next few days/weeks.
1) It's your prediction. It may or may not come to pass. We'll see.
2) Even if it comes to pass, it's not such a big deal for Apple to tweak its message. It does seem to be based on the governments' premise that the consumer is a bit stupid, and that's condescending. However, as its user base expands to Windows-like numbers, this is an issue that Apple will have to get used to and learn to live with.
3) Despite the fact that a company is philosophically right (which Apple is, in this instance), sometimes, it has to bend to the unfortunate exigencies of media and public policy FUD. Witness, for instance, the untruths about Foxconn, or the lame attempts by the US government to go after Apple over its privacy policies, book pricing and so forth. That's the nature of the beast.
1) It's your prediction. It may or may not come to pass. We'll see.
2) Even if it comes to pass, it's not such a big deal for Apple to tweak its message. It does seem to be based on the governments' premise that the consumer is a bit stupid, and that's condescending. However, as its user base expands to Windows-like numbers, this is an issue that Apple will have to get used to and learn to live with.
3) Despite the fact that a company is philosophically right (which Apple is, in this instance), sometimes, it has to bend to the unfortunate exigencies of media and public policy FUD. Witness, for instance, the untruths about Foxconn, or the lame attempts by the DoJ to go after Apple over its privacy policies, book pricing and so forth. That's the nature of the beast.
Apple iPad WiFi+Not 4G
90Mbps if you count the upload and download speeds together.
Impressive speeds!
But just to illustrate the point of why the Aussies and the Europeans are being a bit silly about this, is that:
1) The ipad with the cellular radio does have a LTE radio.
2) The ITU defines 4G as 100Mbps downstream
3) Australia defines 4G by their government as LTE
So Apple is correct, the iPad is a 4G device, by Australia's definition. Apple even puts warnings on their websites and the devices that say that it does not connect to Australian 4G networks. That's Australia's problem for picking incompatible frequencies, and their carriers problem for deploying LTE on bands that the only chip Qualcomm makes doesn't support. Just like T-mobile's problem for deploying HSPA+ and not LTE on AWS frequencies in the US, and other carriers for using CDMA2000 (like Sprint)
The governments are responsible for this mess. Not Apple.
I don't think anyone is disputing that Apple is technically correct but for a company that definitely knows what it is doing in terms of communicating with its customer base and marketing in general, and is also a company that is all about making the technology part of its products as invisible and user friendly as possible, hiding behind technical specs or 'the fine print', is weak. I am pretty certain that everybody at Apple knows damn well that people by and large are confused about 4g. So if you if you claim your product is '4g', it better be '4g' (whatever that is, wherever), period. Its not complicated.
But I like your conclusion and full hardly concur - Its the Government!
Apple iPad WiFi+Not 4G
Apple iPad Wifi + ≥3G.
No, I think they should call it the iPad Wifi + 700/2100 LTE US and Canada 4G + UK/OZ/AUS/DEN 3G edition - maybe less confusing?
+1 and funny....
I agree if it was sold as '4G', however in this specific case Apple sells it as '4G LTE'. Which is too specific to be misinterpreted.
Oh sure... but ask Mr./Ms. Anybody and the vast majority will not know the difference... all they see is the 4G... which leads to misinterpretation.
Most of this shit is a foreign language to most people, so when they see, "the new iPad with Wi-Fi + 4G connects to fast data networks around the world."... most of them will take that at face value (re: 4G connects to fast data networks around the world.)
Who should be educating them at that point is up for debate but Apple could help in the matter by making the disclaimer more obvious, imho.
Interesting thing is that the reason that LTE in N.A. is in the 700 band is because the Digital TV conversion has been completed and those frequencies were auctioned off. Other countries have NOT adopted this spectrum because they are still supporting analog TV broadcasts.
3. Apple's advertising is quite clear as to which countries can use the iPad via LTE. No deception.
Consumer protection laws in some countries don't allow the use of overly small print to restrict the consumers rights/expectations below the overall message shown in the big print.
The problem is they haven't been totally clear. Did you miss the comments from the Swedish poster on this page? Comments from a couple of Australian buyers? One from a German poster?
Are you now saying buyers shouldn't trust the big type on Apple's country-specific sales sites and instead look to see what Apple is hiding in the footnotes? Seems a bit sneaky to me and very un-Apple.
Yep, because that stuff is there to help a buyer make an informed choice,
Is the human race really degenerating into a pack of illiterate idiots who have to be spoon fed everything at the behest of nanny-state governments?
If so the 'Information age' is a lie.
Consumer protection laws in some countries don't allow the use of overly small print to restrict the consumers rights/expectations below the overall message shown in the big print.
Oh please lord, everybody read this.
It is not condescending to the consumer to protect them as suggested elsewhere. Putting protections in place does not imply that the average consumer is an idiot. If we spent all day reading the fine print no one would be buying anything.
I know there are some people on here who have done so, but what sane person has the time to read or understand the apple eula, for instance.
Oh please lord, everybody read this.
It is not condescending to the consumer to protect them as suggested elsewhere. Putting protections in place does not imply that the average consumer is an idiot. If we spent all day reading the fine print no one would be buying anything.
I know there are some people on here who have done so, but what sane person has the time to read or understand the apple eula, for instance.
Perhaps if government put ANY disclaimers of any size on their election posters, they would work on governing the country and dealing with real issues as opposed to looking for publicity by chasing things like this.
I understand the concept of consumer protection, but Apple has agreed to refund any dissatisfied customers their complete purchase price. It sounds to me that consumers in these countries want to have their iPads AND get paid for owning them because they can't be bothered to do any research before dropping a large bundle of cash on an expensive luxury item.
I understand the concept of consumer protection, but Apple has agreed to refund any dissatisfied customers their complete purchase price. It sounds to me that consumers in these countries want to have their iPads AND get paid for owning them because they can't be bothered to do any research before dropping a large bundle of cash on an expensive luxury item.
Depends. In Australia it might be the tail wagging the dog, the ACCC has become quite aggressive in light of new laws. A recent barrage was regarding limited warranties of only 1 year, and they've definitely been firing various warning shots in the past few months on a range of things. FWIW the Australian media generally did not talk about "4G ripoff" until the ACCC brought it up, and even then the story is about the consumer watchdog, and not about consumers complaining. Also FWIW part of this is because telco salespeople are not as scummy as the UK or Asia, from my experience. Part of it could also be because only Telstra has started large scale 4G LTE rollouts, not Optus nor the even-further-behind Vodafone.
Yep, because that stuff is there to help a buyer make an informed choice,
Is the human race really degenerating into a pack of illiterate idiots who have to be spoon fed everything at the behest of nanny-state governments?
If so the 'Information age' is a lie.
Spoonfed Facebook and brain-cell-reducing Interwebz. Remember when we were kids and watching TV would rot our brain? Now I can go and yell at kids on the Internet whose IQs decrease with every hour spent online. In other words, every generation is either getting smarter or dumber. It's a glass half-empty/full kinda thing.
Consumer protection laws in some countries don't allow the use of overly small print to restrict the consumers rights/expectations below the overall message shown in the big print.
It is generally frowned upon in Australia and despite arguments about it being a nanny state, there are at least some structures in place and it has and will stand the country in good stead for the next 50 years as everything becomes "Asianised". I know it's the ol' slippery-slope argument, but outside of the developed world, it's sheer chaos. I like waking up in the morning and knowing my government is not out to rape me, at least not as much as in Asia... and that my government would at least be a little concerned if I died in the street because I ran out of money.
Steve Job gone and now Apple is run by a bunch of idiots. First stupid iPad name ( how they gonna call next iPad? New new iPad? Double new iPad?) and then worldwide 4G advertising campaign for a device with 4G support only in North America
It might be something Steve could have done in the past, we don't know. But certainly I think Apple could have done better with the naming.
Blame it on the carriers as they were the ones who started this whole mess called "4G" when the ITU doesn't has already mentioned what can be declared "4G".
The thing is that most countries would not allow AT&T to blatantly call 3G 4G, despite ITU or whatever. 4G is 4G, 3G is 3G. In other words, 4G is not 3G, even though we don't really know what 4G and 3G is. The point is that 4G is not what 3G currently is. The distinction can be fine, but it's also quite obvious. Telcos and countries are clear on this. Apple took a leap... of faith, perhaps.
Apple iPad Wifi + ≥3G.
Apple iPad WiFi + ≥2G
You just don't get it do you.
HSPA+ is NOT considered to be or advertised as 4G in the UK.
Why? Because the government are planning to auction the 4G spectrum next year so it would be MISLEADING.
Even when we do get 4G the iPad STILL WON’T WORK on 4G coz Apple in their wisdom chose not support any of the 4G bands outside the US and Canada.
It's very clear to anyone who doesn't have their head stuck up Apple's backside that Apple have made a mistake and should have stuck with "WiFi + 3G" for their advertising everywhere outside the US/Canada were the bloody thing actually works.
Should Apple be sued? No. Should Apple adjust accordingly in light of country regulations? Definitely. Also in light of Apple facing a lot of scrutiny over AppleCare.
Of course, but the law has no teeth (at least in North America), and hasn't had for about 40 years or so.
I know in Canada at least, when the rules were codified in the 70's most of what we now take as "normal" was considered illegal. The laws haven't changed but no one enforces them and the few times it's pushed forward by a (necessarily wealthy) third party, the petitioner basically fails almost 100% of the time.
In any case my point was more philosophical. Advertising is based on deception. The whole point of it is to misdirect or fool the consumer into thinking something is A when it's really B. All adverts are this way in that their purpose is to manage perceptions, not to state true facts about a product.
To me, in Australia it has been following a similar trend but over the past decade there has been various measures put in place to prevent things from spiralling out of control. For example, most insurance can be marketed fairly liberally but the PDS (Product Disclosure Statement) has to be pretty clear. In Australia as well, compared to the US, there tends to be more emphasis on some sort of mediation with various government or non-government body(s) before legal action is taken, it reduces the burden on the court system. Can it be improved? Probably. But it's somewhat different still, the courts are not always expected to be the final arbiter. That said, from recently returning here, I notice that Australia is at a crossroads of sorts, between more economic liberalisation (socially things are rather liberal) and old-school semi(?)-protectionism.
The thing is that most countries would not allow AT&T to blatantly call 3G 4G, despite ITU or whatever. 4G is 4G, 3G is 3G. Telcos and countries are clear on this. Apple took a leap... of faith, perhaps..
But you see, this is the problem ... The ITU is THE United Nations governing body that DOES make the recommendations that governments are supposed to follow. And the current recommendation allows for HSPA+ to be considered 4G. If you want to abide by the recommendation that they are working on, then the device must be able to support 100 Mb/sec mobile and 1 Gb/sec stationary, which no LTE device can reach. According to the recommendation, you would need an LTE Advanced device to reach those speeds and none of those exist.
So, the crux is ... If you use the older recommendation, the iPad meets the spec - if you use the newer proposed spec, then the Aussie Telcos do not meet the spec either. For the Aussie, Swedish, UK, or any other body to unilaterally determine that LTE meets what is considered to be 4G is blatantly hypocritical and smacks of either pandering to their public or protectionism of their telcos.