ATV is frustrating. More than anything it needs external storage and the ability to stream from websites and/or Netflix/Hulu.
I gave up a few months ago on mine and bought a Mac Mini. Much more expensive, but 100 times more versatile... now if only the Mini had HDMI Audio out... quite honestly it's almost as though Apple is deliberately trying to stop you from using their products as media centers.
I agree that Apple TV is definitely a niche product and the AirPort routers have made limited penetration into the router market. However, as someone in that niche, I must say that I am quite happy with my Apple TV and the performance of my AirPort Extreme router. I want more from the Apple TV, though; I don't think that it's anywhere close to reaching its potential. I really don't think that Apple is done with developing Apple TV. I can't imagine Apple not wanting a privileged position in living rooms and basements. I think that the potential revenue is considerable and Apple is well placed to exploit it, before other companies grab brand loyalty.
I really don't think that DVR functionality is likely, because of its likely impact on Apple's business model around iTunes. However, I can imagine new Apple TVs with 1 or 2 TB hard drives, more powerful processors, an improved UI, and the ability to function as a home media center for all types of media. Another future selling point would be even better integration with all of the other products in the Apple "ecosystem", including any future tablet device. Apple products are never cheap, so these changes will not make Apple TV a ubiquitous part of households, but it could mean that the niche will increase considerably.
ATV is frustrating. More than anything it needs external storage and the ability to stream from websites and/or Netflix/Hulu.
I gave up a few months ago on mine and bought a Mac Mini. Much more expensive, but 100 times more versatile... now if only the Mini had HDMI Audio out... quite honestly it's almost as though Apple is deliberately trying to stop you from using their products as media centers.
I believe HDMI requires a license and adherence to certain requirements for HDCP as the machines hooked up with HDMI talk to and validate each other and their compliance.
The closed system is clearly designed to keep HDMI content OFF computers so the content can't easily be copied.
It supports a lot of formats and even streams movies over a network. The remote is compact and the UI is very nice. Simply pick up a 500GB 2.5" bus-powered drive and it's a cheap way to have instant access to all your media.
If the ATV did have a motion wand so you could use Safari and supported 3rd party codecs and bumped up the size to 500GB, it would be good value at the price its at. But it has none of those things.
ATV is frustrating. More than anything it needs external storage and the ability to stream from websites and/or Netflix/Hulu.
I gave up a few months ago on mine and bought a Mac Mini. Much more expensive, but 100 times more versatile... now if only the Mini had HDMI Audio out... quite honestly it's almost as though Apple is deliberately trying to stop you from using their products as media centers.
As frustrating as it is, the only way (IMO) to get a netflix-like experience on the ATV would be for the iTunes store to compete directly and have a subscription service for the ATV only. Netflix and Amazon, Hulu and others, are direct competitors and Apple would probably not allow them to happen. It's probably why they didn't already put a web browser in the ATV OS already.
Why would you buy or rent movies from iTunes if the ATV has a full web browser so you could go to Netflix, amazon, or hulu and watch a movie or TV show for free? It is frustrating, but Apple kind of shot themselves in the foot here. you can't have a web-browser if you're trying to get people to buy into the iTunes store platform...so they really trapped themselves here.
I would love to see the iPHone OS on the ATV but it's probably not going to happen, unless they have a solution to prevent thier customer base from just using the OS to go to Hulu. Sucks right?
Apple's main reason for flat Airport sales is lack of followthrough. I've converted 3 of my Customers to the new Dual Band Airport Extremes because of the dual band capablity, the ability to manage via my MobileMe account, and primarily the guest network feature. Well the guest network is the biggest disappointment. The big use for my customers was to have a guest network visitors could access while visiting without being able to see the personal net and it's associated hardware, while at the pool or patio or in the gym in the case of a local church. Guess what the guest net is not extendable only your primary personal network. Suggestions were made when this was first discovered just after introduction and the Airport Extreme has received two firmware updates but with no changes to guest networking. So if Apple wants to increase share it must do as with all it successful products keep making improvements and enhancements ie iPhone, iMac, and MacBooks. So the fault lies clearly with Apple.
ATV is frustrating. More than anything it needs external storage and the ability to stream from websites and/or Netflix/Hulu.
I gave up a few months ago on mine and bought a Mac Mini. Much more expensive, but 100 times more versatile... now if only the Mini had HDMI Audio out... quite honestly it's almost as though Apple is deliberately trying to stop you from using their products as media centers.
The Mac Mini solution makes a lot of sense too, especially if they could make a reduced price version as a media center.
It still needs a DVR, but it seems like that could be done by just adding another application to iLife.
I'm not too worried about the HDMI issues. That is an annoying, dead-end technology that should never have been brought to market and will hopefully disappear soon. FW3200 would have been a fine solution (recall that the HDTV standard was originally supposed to use FW as the main connection technology until the Hollyweird creeps objected because it is too consumer friendly).
That window may have passed, but Light Peak looks very promising on the horizon. Infinitely superior to HDMI.
Absolutely. Airport routers have a far more intuitive setup and configuration than anything I've ever seen on the PC market. The problems are:
1) Apple don't seem to do a very good job of promoting this ease of use compared to others
I agree, it's more complicated because of Airport Software and updates. Also it's not easy to simplify because everyone's network is different.
But one thing Apple should do is make a default hardened set up.
Quote:
2) Many consumers are cheapskates and are hard-pressed to pay extra for elegant design and ease of use
There isn't much ease of use with Airport, to properly set up a router you got to know what your doing anyway, so you can buy the less expensive ones.
Quote:
3) Wifi networks are often installed by "the cable guy" or some other "PC guy", who are unlikely to recommend an Apple product.
Exactly, because most new Apple users are network illiterate or get the internet as a afterthought. If the PC guy installs it, they have a choice of vendors and prices. Products are available locally and Apple's prices are high.
I believe HDMI requires a license and adherence to certain requirements for HDCP as the machines hooked up with HDMI talk to and validate each other and their compliance.
The closed system is clearly designed to keep HDMI content OFF computers so the content can't easily be copied.
This does not make much sense though, as the Apple TV does have component outputs (which are analog and provide full resolution). So, it is actually even easier to copy from the Apple TV than from any current Mac (as the Mini DisplayPort output does no longer support composite/S-Video signals).
Allowing HDMI video without audio is not explained by HDCP licensing issues - the signal is HDCP compliant (e.g.: you can use an external BD player and a BD playback software under Windows and it does work on every current Mac), so they could also add audio. Even DisplayPort is fully capable of supporting 8 simultaneous digital audio signals, but Apple does not use it and there is really no valid explanation for it.
I see quite a few people here saying that adding a DVR to AppleTV will cause sales to sky rocket. If that were true, EVERYONE would have TiVo and sadly, not a lot more people do. It is easily the best DVR out there. I don't work for TiVo but have two units at home and access friends and relatives that love Microsoft (I live in the Seattle area) and won't buy Apple stuff (though it isn't beneath them to have me fix their videos for them).
Too many cable boxes come with (low end) DVRs that are "good enough" for people. That with cable on-demand and NetFlix and people just don't see spending money for TiVo or what I would prefer, AppleTV/TiVo combined into one box. That isn't going to happen but that would be the start of heaven.
As for DVD players. For me these are like record players. As soon as people could load music from CDs onto computers and then onto iPods they did. Apple should be following this idea with AppleTV where you can easily import all of your DVDs into iTunes on your computer and have it play on the TV.
The closest I can get to this so far is my Mac Mini with Hardbrake and Front Row. And this is actually what I do. AppleTV is a HUGE step backwards from a Mac Mini except that you can't download a lot of HD movies from iTunes. Quite a few you Have to have an ATV to do this. And right now it is way too expensive to buy an external BlueRay drive and connect it to a Mac. Assuming one is available.
Optical audio - My sound system for my TV (3rd party separate sound system) only has one port for optical audio. So how does Apple and other companies expect me to get full 5.1 Surround Sound when I can only connect one device at a time? Right now no device does everything I want which means multiple devices are required and we are back to stupidly having to manually switch things around. I'm SOOOOO tired of this.
What would I like? A Mac Mini type device with TiVo (not some lame low end DVR) with connections for cable/satellite and slot loading DVD/BlueRay drive that sucks in movies just like songs are sucked into iTunes. I want to be able to pick movies from a menu just like I pick songs. Right now iTunes doesn't do this (suck in movies and no BlueRay) and FrontRow is stripped down AppleTV and AppleTV doesn't have slot load and ? and a PS3 (no M$ products in my house and they suck anyway) has no iTunes and won't suck in movies onto it's hard hard drive.
Note that TiVo does have Netflix and Amazon and so forth where you can buy stuff from them. I haven't yet though.
Just give me more than 3 usable ports in the back. One of the 4 is used to plug in the cable modem's signal, only leaving me three to mess with. At least they are covered by any apple protection plan you have that is tied to a computer.
I wouldn't call the the movie rentals exactly useful. They are very expensive for a 24hr rental.
Really depends on where you are... Over here they are identically priced to video-on-demand offers by the cable company (which you have to watch immediately in one go and can't even pause). Going to the local video shop costs me more money for gas and parking fees than an iTunes rental and I can't even be sure the movie I want is available. The whole process of going there, parking, renting, getting back is at least one hour. It is just more convenient to click "rent" on the Apple TV - I can watch any 720p movie within less than two minutes.
So what's stopping anyone form importing their DVD's? I have 2 TB's of movies almost all of which is from my DVD collection. Get a copy of hanbrake and be done with it.
Actually, you won't be done with it, you will just be starting. Handbrake is very time consuming, takes up lots of space after a while and the picture quality is not that good. The picture on my upscaled DVD player is much better. AppleTV does pictures well so that is what I mostly use mine for.
Actually, you won't be done with it, you will just be starting. Handbrake is very time consuming, takes up lots of space after a while and the picture quality is not that good. The picture on my upscaled DVD player is much better. AppleTV does pictures well so that is what I mostly use mine for.
You are out of date on HandBrake. I can see now loss of picture quality since the newest version of HandBrake.
As for disk space. Duh. But that disk space is going to be taken no matter which way you get the movie onto your hard drive (or the AppleTV hard drive). Movies take space. We accept that.
I think you'd be surprised. I think a fair number of people are already doing it with iPods, and I think we'll see it skyrocket once the tablet ships.
Oh, and forgot to mention before, I'd totally buy a decent TV streaming box to use with my current SDTV. No plans to replace it before it dies, even if that's years from now.
Apple TV is a bit long on needing a vibrant upgrade. in my belief it needs
1- Larger hard drive 500gb+ option, also ability to add extra storage externally via USB, Firewire or ESata...
[
Why not allow it to stream directly from your Apple home server? I have over 500gb of iTunes purchased movies and tv shows on our Apple home server. I hate having to select the movies and tv shows I want on each Apple TV in the house. Worst part is I have to go to the Server to make these selections.
While almost everybody suggests adding DVR functionality would be great, I really do not see how this should be done. We have some channels on DVB-T, some on DVB-C, some on DVB-S, encryption methods (and required CI modules) are not standardized, they actually differ from state to state, provider to provider and sometimes even between channels delivered by the same provider. I use no less than 4 different CI modules right now... and that is just one country and Apple TV is an international product. Apple would be nuts to even start this. They should provide a SDK and make the USB port usable, then third parties could design local solutions and the software to go with them.
I have a Mini in the closet which records shows using an Elgato device. Once the recording is done, it automatically gets converted to H.264 and added to the iTunes library, this will automatically sync it to the Apple TV (and I can sync it to the iPhone if I want to). Works fine and through the Web interface of the electronic TV guide I can even schedule recordings remotely.
Comments
I gave up a few months ago on mine and bought a Mac Mini. Much more expensive, but 100 times more versatile... now if only the Mini had HDMI Audio out... quite honestly it's almost as though Apple is deliberately trying to stop you from using their products as media centers.
I really don't think that DVR functionality is likely, because of its likely impact on Apple's business model around iTunes. However, I can imagine new Apple TVs with 1 or 2 TB hard drives, more powerful processors, an improved UI, and the ability to function as a home media center for all types of media. Another future selling point would be even better integration with all of the other products in the Apple "ecosystem", including any future tablet device. Apple products are never cheap, so these changes will not make Apple TV a ubiquitous part of households, but it could mean that the niche will increase considerably.
ATV is frustrating. More than anything it needs external storage and the ability to stream from websites and/or Netflix/Hulu.
I gave up a few months ago on mine and bought a Mac Mini. Much more expensive, but 100 times more versatile... now if only the Mini had HDMI Audio out... quite honestly it's almost as though Apple is deliberately trying to stop you from using their products as media centers.
I believe HDMI requires a license and adherence to certain requirements for HDCP as the machines hooked up with HDMI talk to and validate each other and their compliance.
The closed system is clearly designed to keep HDMI content OFF computers so the content can't easily be copied.
Appel TV is useful in countries where you can rent or buy movies and tv shows but in countries like Spain where you can't it's almost useless.
I wouldn't call the the movie rentals exactly useful. They are very expensive for a 24hr rental.
Today, the Apple TV wants your content to be Apple-Approved content.
If they want sales of Apple TV to skyrocket, they need to make it play anything.
It should play Xvid & DivX right out of the box.
It should have every codec known to man.
OR it should allow you to purchase & install codecs as apps.
Video doesn't play? Press ok to purchase the correct codec & auto-install it for $0.99
If it could play anything, from anywhere (NAS, external HDD, etc), including 1080p content, sales would BOOM.
The lack of format support is normally why I don't go for these type of Apple products. The WD TV Live box is much better value IMO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzcvQqP0buk&feature=fvw
It supports a lot of formats and even streams movies over a network. The remote is compact and the UI is very nice. Simply pick up a 500GB 2.5" bus-powered drive and it's a cheap way to have instant access to all your media.
If the ATV did have a motion wand so you could use Safari and supported 3rd party codecs and bumped up the size to 500GB, it would be good value at the price its at. But it has none of those things.
ATV is frustrating. More than anything it needs external storage and the ability to stream from websites and/or Netflix/Hulu.
I gave up a few months ago on mine and bought a Mac Mini. Much more expensive, but 100 times more versatile... now if only the Mini had HDMI Audio out... quite honestly it's almost as though Apple is deliberately trying to stop you from using their products as media centers.
As frustrating as it is, the only way (IMO) to get a netflix-like experience on the ATV would be for the iTunes store to compete directly and have a subscription service for the ATV only. Netflix and Amazon, Hulu and others, are direct competitors and Apple would probably not allow them to happen. It's probably why they didn't already put a web browser in the ATV OS already.
Why would you buy or rent movies from iTunes if the ATV has a full web browser so you could go to Netflix, amazon, or hulu and watch a movie or TV show for free? It is frustrating, but Apple kind of shot themselves in the foot here. you can't have a web-browser if you're trying to get people to buy into the iTunes store platform...so they really trapped themselves here.
I would love to see the iPHone OS on the ATV but it's probably not going to happen, unless they have a solution to prevent thier customer base from just using the OS to go to Hulu. Sucks right?
ATV is frustrating. More than anything it needs external storage and the ability to stream from websites and/or Netflix/Hulu.
I gave up a few months ago on mine and bought a Mac Mini. Much more expensive, but 100 times more versatile... now if only the Mini had HDMI Audio out... quite honestly it's almost as though Apple is deliberately trying to stop you from using their products as media centers.
The Mac Mini solution makes a lot of sense too, especially if they could make a reduced price version as a media center.
It still needs a DVR, but it seems like that could be done by just adding another application to iLife.
I'm not too worried about the HDMI issues. That is an annoying, dead-end technology that should never have been brought to market and will hopefully disappear soon. FW3200 would have been a fine solution (recall that the HDTV standard was originally supposed to use FW as the main connection technology until the Hollyweird creeps objected because it is too consumer friendly).
That window may have passed, but Light Peak looks very promising on the horizon. Infinitely superior to HDMI.
Absolutely. Airport routers have a far more intuitive setup and configuration than anything I've ever seen on the PC market. The problems are:
1) Apple don't seem to do a very good job of promoting this ease of use compared to others
I agree, it's more complicated because of Airport Software and updates. Also it's not easy to simplify because everyone's network is different.
But one thing Apple should do is make a default hardened set up.
2) Many consumers are cheapskates and are hard-pressed to pay extra for elegant design and ease of use
There isn't much ease of use with Airport, to properly set up a router you got to know what your doing anyway, so you can buy the less expensive ones.
3) Wifi networks are often installed by "the cable guy" or some other "PC guy", who are unlikely to recommend an Apple product.
Exactly, because most new Apple users are network illiterate or get the internet as a afterthought. If the PC guy installs it, they have a choice of vendors and prices. Products are available locally and Apple's prices are high.
I believe HDMI requires a license and adherence to certain requirements for HDCP as the machines hooked up with HDMI talk to and validate each other and their compliance.
The closed system is clearly designed to keep HDMI content OFF computers so the content can't easily be copied.
This does not make much sense though, as the Apple TV does have component outputs (which are analog and provide full resolution). So, it is actually even easier to copy from the Apple TV than from any current Mac (as the Mini DisplayPort output does no longer support composite/S-Video signals).
Allowing HDMI video without audio is not explained by HDCP licensing issues - the signal is HDCP compliant (e.g.: you can use an external BD player and a BD playback software under Windows and it does work on every current Mac), so they could also add audio. Even DisplayPort is fully capable of supporting 8 simultaneous digital audio signals, but Apple does not use it and there is really no valid explanation for it.
Too many cable boxes come with (low end) DVRs that are "good enough" for people. That with cable on-demand and NetFlix and people just don't see spending money for TiVo or what I would prefer, AppleTV/TiVo combined into one box. That isn't going to happen but that would be the start of heaven.
As for DVD players. For me these are like record players. As soon as people could load music from CDs onto computers and then onto iPods they did. Apple should be following this idea with AppleTV where you can easily import all of your DVDs into iTunes on your computer and have it play on the TV.
The closest I can get to this so far is my Mac Mini with Hardbrake and Front Row. And this is actually what I do. AppleTV is a HUGE step backwards from a Mac Mini except that you can't download a lot of HD movies from iTunes. Quite a few you Have to have an ATV to do this. And right now it is way too expensive to buy an external BlueRay drive and connect it to a Mac. Assuming one is available.
Optical audio - My sound system for my TV (3rd party separate sound system) only has one port for optical audio. So how does Apple and other companies expect me to get full 5.1 Surround Sound when I can only connect one device at a time? Right now no device does everything I want which means multiple devices are required and we are back to stupidly having to manually switch things around. I'm SOOOOO tired of this.
What would I like? A Mac Mini type device with TiVo (not some lame low end DVR) with connections for cable/satellite and slot loading DVD/BlueRay drive that sucks in movies just like songs are sucked into iTunes. I want to be able to pick movies from a menu just like I pick songs. Right now iTunes doesn't do this (suck in movies and no BlueRay) and FrontRow is stripped down AppleTV and AppleTV doesn't have slot load and ? and a PS3 (no M$ products in my house and they suck anyway) has no iTunes and won't suck in movies onto it's hard hard drive.
Note that TiVo does have Netflix and Amazon and so forth where you can buy stuff from them. I haven't yet though.
I wouldn't call the the movie rentals exactly useful. They are very expensive for a 24hr rental.
Really depends on where you are... Over here they are identically priced to video-on-demand offers by the cable company (which you have to watch immediately in one go and can't even pause). Going to the local video shop costs me more money for gas and parking fees than an iTunes rental and I can't even be sure the movie I want is available. The whole process of going there, parking, renting, getting back is at least one hour. It is just more convenient to click "rent" on the Apple TV - I can watch any 720p movie within less than two minutes.
So what's stopping anyone form importing their DVD's? I have 2 TB's of movies almost all of which is from my DVD collection. Get a copy of hanbrake and be done with it.
Actually, you won't be done with it, you will just be starting. Handbrake is very time consuming, takes up lots of space after a while and the picture quality is not that good. The picture on my upscaled DVD player is much better. AppleTV does pictures well so that is what I mostly use mine for.
Actually, you won't be done with it, you will just be starting. Handbrake is very time consuming, takes up lots of space after a while and the picture quality is not that good. The picture on my upscaled DVD player is much better. AppleTV does pictures well so that is what I mostly use mine for.
You are out of date on HandBrake. I can see now loss of picture quality since the newest version of HandBrake.
As for disk space. Duh. But that disk space is going to be taken no matter which way you get the movie onto your hard drive (or the AppleTV hard drive). Movies take space. We accept that.
I think you'd be surprised. I think a fair number of people are already doing it with iPods, and I think we'll see it skyrocket once the tablet ships.
Oh, and forgot to mention before, I'd totally buy a decent TV streaming box to use with my current SDTV. No plans to replace it before it dies, even if that's years from now.
Is that right?
No. It's incorrect.
Not everyone wants to stream. 16gb is way way way too small.
Different price points for different needs/features.
Apple TV is a bit long on needing a vibrant upgrade. in my belief it needs
1- Larger hard drive 500gb+ option, also ability to add extra storage externally via USB, Firewire or ESata...
[
Why not allow it to stream directly from your Apple home server? I have over 500gb of iTunes purchased movies and tv shows on our Apple home server. I hate having to select the movies and tv shows I want on each Apple TV in the house. Worst part is I have to go to the Server to make these selections.
Seems like a basic feature that is missing.
I have a Mini in the closet which records shows using an Elgato device. Once the recording is done, it automatically gets converted to H.264 and added to the iTunes library, this will automatically sync it to the Apple TV (and I can sync it to the iPhone if I want to). Works fine and through the Web interface of the electronic TV guide I can even schedule recordings remotely.