Apple has not pointed out, and most people have not realized that iTunes 9 Home Sharing feature eliminates the need for a separate "media server" piece of hardware, such as MS and many others sell now (like Iomega's Home Media Network drive for Mac).
I'm not happy with home sharing at all. It still does not centralize content which means I have islands of media all over my home. iTunes 9 Home Sharing is certainly not the kind of innovative tool that we expect from Apple.
I really want to buy an Apple TV but it's hardware is old and slow. I'm looking forward to a ARM based unit that stays much cooler and a lot more functionality in software. I don't really a DVR and I damn sure won't be looking for Blu-ray but I need something that handles iTunes content very well and my own content well.
Apple isn't going to turn Apple TV into a TiVO just because the fanboys would like them to. If you think dealing with the top-level management in AT&T and Verizon is nasty, just try dealing with the pirates who run the MSOs!
What in the world are you babbling on about? Standard definition TVs no longer exist. CRT TVs no longer exist. Nobody manufacturers either one any longer. The only type TV you can buy today is HD, regardless of screen size. I see old crt and sd television sets out on the curb for trash pickup every single day. And the people who still have and use them are definitely not interested in any new fangled gadgets anyway. That's why they still have obsolete technology in the first place.
I mean, really, where are you coming from on this? I'd really like to know.
You might try checking out the real world.
I have 3 SD TVs and a lot if not a majority also only have SD TVs. THEY DO EXIST. Do you think that when HDTVs were introduced all SDTVs magically disappeared? Some of us replace TVs when they fail, not when the newest model comes out.
I love most things Apple, but there's NO WAY IN HELL I would ever buy Apple TV. I have backed up tons of dvds and 1) the storage space on ATV is simply too small to hold them. They should either try to make an Iomega Multimedia Hard Drive type device, starting at around 2TB, OR, make a WDTV type External HD-to-TV interface. 2) Apple TV is not easy to use with .avi files, which is too bad because ATV has the most beautiful on-screen menu; but that's just not enough—Beautiful doesn't trump Functionality. Apple are surprisingly behind on this front. If they want to stay in the TV interface game they NEED to put out something like the WDTV, but keep the front row interface intact. Then I'd likely consider buying such a device.
I have 3 SD TVs and a lot if not a majority also only have SD TVs. THEY DO EXIST. Do you think that when HDTVs were introduced all SDTVs magically disappeared? Some of us replace TVs when they fail, not when the newest model comes out.
True but that also means that you are not the target market for Apple TV. SDTV marketshare can only decline so it makes little sense to add support for a format that's fading away rapidly. We're still really in the infancy of downloadable content so I think those that wait will neatly bypass the cuts from the "bleeding edge"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunt21
I love most things Apple, but there's NO WAY IN HELL I would ever buy Apple TV. I have backed up tons of dvds and 1) the storage space on ATV is simply too small to hold them. They should either try to make a smart Iomega Drive type device, starting at 2 TB, OR, make a WDTV type External HD<>TV interface. 2) Apple TV is not easy to use with .avi files, which is too bad because ATV has the most beautiful on-screen menu; but so what? Apple are surprisingly behind on this front. If they want to stay in the TV interface game they NEED to put out something like the WDTV, but keep the front row interface intact. Then, maybe then, I'll consider buying it.
That's why streaming is so important. The ideal solution would be a large NAS to centralize media but we're still not there yet.
all you need to do if you have a lot of media is to set up a new library with it all on any standard external 1T or 2T hard drive connected to any Mac in your house. and turn Home Sharing on. every Mac, PC, and AppleTV on your home network can then display that full library and stream (and copy) anything from it. and AirTunes can pump it into your sound system. the iPhone/touch Remote app can control it.
That's cool info if you have an iMac or big machine, but for me, it means having to constantly set up and dismantle the whole external drive from my notebook every time I leave for work. When I take my notebook from the house, my wife wouldn't be able to use this setup to watch media on the TV until I come home and set it all up again. The whole reason I bought the WDTV in the first place was that it freed up my notebook and offered a permanent solution for both of us.
While almost everybody suggests adding DVR functionality would be great, I really do not see how this should be done. We have some channels on DVB-T, some on DVB-C, some on DVB-S, encryption methods (and required CI modules) are not standardized, they actually differ from state to state, provider to provider and sometimes even between channels delivered by the same provider. I use no less than 4 different CI modules right now... and that is just one country and Apple TV is an international product. Apple would be nuts to even start this. They should provide a SDK and make the USB port usable, then third parties could design local solutions and the software to go with them.
Well Sony has started (well for a few years now) doing it by selling an external USB device, no reason why Apple can't
Apple TV must have a DVR function before it can achieve significant sales. That's probably not the only thing that needs to change on it, but it is a bare minimum.
Apple has shown some very interesting patent applications along the DVR line a few years ago - they are long overdue for release.
Sadly, it would appear that Steve Jobs sold his soul to the TV studios by not bringing an Apple branded DVR function to market in exchange for making shows available on itunes. Personally I'd rather see itunes sacrifice show availability in exchange for a DVR built into iLife and Apple TV if it has to be an either / or choice.
No need for a DVR. Update the hardware , and add an app store which doesn't restrict media delivery - e.g. allow Netflix to make a Netflix app and Spotify to make a spotify app. Success!
Hardware wise, I'd just like less noise/heat, more space (500+ GB, so my 350 GB music collection will fit... I need to stop visiting play.com) and a less limiting remote. Ipod touch works well, but some functionality, like power off, isn't there either.
The DVR possibilities are too fragmented (satellite, cable, DVB - different standards, different encryption etc), so not a good fit for Apple TV.
PS: Actually having an iTunes video store here would increase its appeal too, and I would spend money there
the Apple TV still does not even let you stream from your iTunes purchased library...
Apple TV does stream from your library. It's very easy to set up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchelljd
I would be alot happier if i could use my apple tv as a place for all the blu-Ray digital copies i have or maybe even a place to store movies i buy from apple itunes movie store. but do NOT want to keep on my laptop because it would take up too much room in my laptop. or even desktop.
Anyway, it would be awesome to really make more of this device as a proper home media center and computing entertainment center.
Put the media on the network with a HD connected to your airport extreme. Use whatever computer you want to manage the library and synch things up. I have a dedicated server, but I understand your thoughts. It would be nice if the ATV could replace that server, however I doubt the ATV would ever support External SATA at 3GB/s. I have several ATV's and I have to consider multiple streams. Also, after struggling with a ton of media, USB2/ FW drives are too unreliable and too slow to transfer/ copy terabytes of data, so for me I'd rather have a more robust server that can serve an entire household, but for others I could see how great it could be if ATV were the server.
However I have to disagree with you, the Apple TV is a proper home media center. I'm very happy with my setup. I
Fusing media and computers has proven to be a "sticky wicket". Things will improve, but licensing and a slew of other legalities are definitely going to hinder development in this area. Apple is in a good place to leverage the power of the itunes store and their product ecosystem in these negotiations. So I'm inclined to think they will be able to make a great product/ service. Other's are at it too, so we'll see where it goes but otherwise there's nothing in the market that is leaps and bounds above ATV and few others have the clout to leverage change in what were fairly "static" and protected industries (music, tv and movies). Keep in mind, most of what we're talking about is still 1st generation tech no matter what offering you are talking about and accelerated development was traditionally unique to electronics and only now is it spreading to other industries.
The coolest thing is that it seems everyone is very interested in a "killer" product in this category. It should provide some real incentives to these corporations to work together developing a great platform and hopefully not fragment the market into disaster.
No need for a DVR. Update the hardware , and add an app store which doesn't restrict media delivery - e.g. allow Netflix to make a Netflix app and Spotify to make a spotify app. Success!
Hardware wise, I'd just like less noise/heat, more space (500+ GB, so my 350 GB music collection will fit...
Apps are feature we all seem to want. The idea of supporting netflix (or others) in this regard seems like a mute point when you consider the iphone/ IPT can work that way with Rhapsody subscriptions for example. I genuinely prefer the Itunes store but if "there's an app for that" on the ATV as well I think it would be a huge selling point but I think we need an improved input device. The tablet in my opinion will fit the bill nicely.
Regarding less noise. MY ATV is silent. Yours should not be making noise, but mine are hot enough to cook an egg just about all of the time.
It's the easiest setup experience I've had for a router. Had a Linksys and DLInk in the past. Both were a bear to setup. Published comparison reviews confirm this.
Oh good grief. A "bear to set up?" Frankly, with the quick setup guides and included software directions they've been pathetically simple to set up for quite some time now. One would have to be a computer novice not to be able to handle them.
Apple TV is not easy to use with .avi files, which is too bad because ATV has the most beautiful on-screen menu; but that's just not enough?Beautiful doesn't trump Functionality. Apple are surprisingly behind on this front.
AVI is a legacy format at this point. Even handbrake stopped supporting it. here's the quote from their page...
"AVI: AVI is a rough beast. It is obsolete. It does not support modern container features like chapters, muxed-in subtitles, variable framerate video, or out of order frame display. The code has not been actively maintained since 2005. Keeping it in the library while implementing new features means a very convoluted data pipeline, full of conditionals that make the code more difficult to read and maintain, and make output harder to predict. As such, it is now gone. It is not coming back, and good riddance."
What a tour de force of holier-than-thou, elitist mumbo-jumbo. What's it like looking down your nose at Apple users from your pseudo-tech perch on Mount Olympus? I mean, every single one of your techno-babble talking points is laughable.
AppleTV is a hobby because there's no lock-in for users. If AppleTV gets subscriptions in 2010 then Apple will no longer call it a hobby. It will be a deal changer that will challenge cable companies.
It would be nice if a new hardware release was good enough to be a game console as well. Some of those iPhone games might be ok on the big screen.
AppleTV is a hobby because there's no lock-in for users. If AppleTV gets subscriptions in 2010 then Apple will no longer call it a hobby. It will be a deal changer that will challenge cable companies.
It would be nice if a new hardware release was good enough to be a game console as well. Some of those iPhone games might be ok on the big screen.
I would like to see the AppleTV take off, be another Netflix, unfortunately in order to get decent downloads you need cable...and Comcast just bought NBC...ouch.
AT&T is going to hang up land lines, so there goes DSL.
AppleTV is a hobby because there's no lock-in for users. If AppleTV gets subscriptions in 2010 then Apple will no longer call it a hobby. It will be a deal changer that will challenge cable companies.
It would be nice if a new hardware release was good enough to be a game console as well. Some of those iPhone games might be ok on the big screen.
I don't think the next ATV is going to come out until the tablet comes out. Because the Tablet is going to deliver apps with larger interfaces it's a natural for Apple to coelesce the two together. The Tablet becomes much more powerful if the apps I run on it also work on the new ATV.
Comments
Apple has not pointed out, and most people have not realized that iTunes 9 Home Sharing feature eliminates the need for a separate "media server" piece of hardware, such as MS and many others sell now (like Iomega's Home Media Network drive for Mac).
I'm not happy with home sharing at all. It still does not centralize content which means I have islands of media all over my home. iTunes 9 Home Sharing is certainly not the kind of innovative tool that we expect from Apple.
I really want to buy an Apple TV but it's hardware is old and slow. I'm looking forward to a ARM based unit that stays much cooler and a lot more functionality in software. I don't really a DVR and I damn sure won't be looking for Blu-ray but I need something that handles iTunes content very well and my own content well.
What in the world are you babbling on about? Standard definition TVs no longer exist. CRT TVs no longer exist. Nobody manufacturers either one any longer. The only type TV you can buy today is HD, regardless of screen size. I see old crt and sd television sets out on the curb for trash pickup every single day. And the people who still have and use them are definitely not interested in any new fangled gadgets anyway. That's why they still have obsolete technology in the first place.
I mean, really, where are you coming from on this? I'd really like to know.
You might try checking out the real world.
I have 3 SD TVs and a lot if not a majority also only have SD TVs. THEY DO EXIST. Do you think that when HDTVs were introduced all SDTVs magically disappeared? Some of us replace TVs when they fail, not when the newest model comes out.
You might try checking out the real world.
I have 3 SD TVs and a lot if not a majority also only have SD TVs. THEY DO EXIST. Do you think that when HDTVs were introduced all SDTVs magically disappeared? Some of us replace TVs when they fail, not when the newest model comes out.
True but that also means that you are not the target market for Apple TV. SDTV marketshare can only decline so it makes little sense to add support for a format that's fading away rapidly. We're still really in the infancy of downloadable content so I think those that wait will neatly bypass the cuts from the "bleeding edge"
I love most things Apple, but there's NO WAY IN HELL I would ever buy Apple TV. I have backed up tons of dvds and 1) the storage space on ATV is simply too small to hold them. They should either try to make a smart Iomega Drive type device, starting at 2 TB, OR, make a WDTV type External HD<>TV interface. 2) Apple TV is not easy to use with .avi files, which is too bad because ATV has the most beautiful on-screen menu; but so what? Apple are surprisingly behind on this front. If they want to stay in the TV interface game they NEED to put out something like the WDTV, but keep the front row interface intact. Then, maybe then, I'll consider buying it.
That's why streaming is so important. The ideal solution would be a large NAS to centralize media but we're still not there yet.
all you need to do if you have a lot of media is to set up a new library with it all on any standard external 1T or 2T hard drive connected to any Mac in your house. and turn Home Sharing on. every Mac, PC, and AppleTV on your home network can then display that full library and stream (and copy) anything from it. and AirTunes can pump it into your sound system. the iPhone/touch Remote app can control it.
That's cool info if you have an iMac or big machine, but for me, it means having to constantly set up and dismantle the whole external drive from my notebook every time I leave for work. When I take my notebook from the house, my wife wouldn't be able to use this setup to watch media on the TV until I come home and set it all up again. The whole reason I bought the WDTV in the first place was that it freed up my notebook and offered a permanent solution for both of us.
While almost everybody suggests adding DVR functionality would be great, I really do not see how this should be done. We have some channels on DVB-T, some on DVB-C, some on DVB-S, encryption methods (and required CI modules) are not standardized, they actually differ from state to state, provider to provider and sometimes even between channels delivered by the same provider. I use no less than 4 different CI modules right now... and that is just one country and Apple TV is an international product. Apple would be nuts to even start this. They should provide a SDK and make the USB port usable, then third parties could design local solutions and the software to go with them.
Well Sony has started (well for a few years now) doing it by selling an external USB device, no reason why Apple can't
I have Vuze on the Macbook and an xBox 360 hooked up to the TV. This all pretty much provides the functionality of the ATV.
I am not surprised sales of the Apple TV are flat.
I have Vuze on the Macbook and an xBox 360 hooked up to the TV. This all pretty much provides the functionality of the ATV.
Yeah but you spent $300. It's not like you found a cheaper solution.
Yeah but you spent $300. It's not like you found a cheaper solution.
Er, the xBox was already there, It wasn't purchased to do that job. Vuze was free, so getting the functionality cost nothing.
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it:
Apple TV must have a DVR function before it can achieve significant sales. That's probably not the only thing that needs to change on it, but it is a bare minimum.
Apple has shown some very interesting patent applications along the DVR line a few years ago - they are long overdue for release.
Sadly, it would appear that Steve Jobs sold his soul to the TV studios by not bringing an Apple branded DVR function to market in exchange for making shows available on itunes. Personally I'd rather see itunes sacrifice show availability in exchange for a DVR built into iLife and Apple TV if it has to be an either / or choice.
No need for a DVR. Update the hardware , and add an app store which doesn't restrict media delivery - e.g. allow Netflix to make a Netflix app and Spotify to make a spotify app. Success!
Hardware wise, I'd just like less noise/heat, more space (500+ GB, so my 350 GB music collection will fit... I need to stop visiting play.com) and a less limiting remote. Ipod touch works well, but some functionality, like power off, isn't there either.
The DVR possibilities are too fragmented (satellite, cable, DVB - different standards, different encryption etc), so not a good fit for Apple TV.
PS: Actually having an iTunes video store here would increase its appeal too, and I would spend money there
the Apple TV still does not even let you stream from your iTunes purchased library...
Apple TV does stream from your library. It's very easy to set up.
I would be alot happier if i could use my apple tv as a place for all the blu-Ray digital copies i have or maybe even a place to store movies i buy from apple itunes movie store. but do NOT want to keep on my laptop because it would take up too much room in my laptop. or even desktop.
Anyway, it would be awesome to really make more of this device as a proper home media center and computing entertainment center.
Put the media on the network with a HD connected to your airport extreme. Use whatever computer you want to manage the library and synch things up. I have a dedicated server, but I understand your thoughts. It would be nice if the ATV could replace that server, however I doubt the ATV would ever support External SATA at 3GB/s. I have several ATV's and I have to consider multiple streams. Also, after struggling with a ton of media, USB2/ FW drives are too unreliable and too slow to transfer/ copy terabytes of data, so for me I'd rather have a more robust server that can serve an entire household, but for others I could see how great it could be if ATV were the server.
However I have to disagree with you, the Apple TV is a proper home media center. I'm very happy with my setup. I
Fusing media and computers has proven to be a "sticky wicket". Things will improve, but licensing and a slew of other legalities are definitely going to hinder development in this area. Apple is in a good place to leverage the power of the itunes store and their product ecosystem in these negotiations. So I'm inclined to think they will be able to make a great product/ service. Other's are at it too, so we'll see where it goes but otherwise there's nothing in the market that is leaps and bounds above ATV and few others have the clout to leverage change in what were fairly "static" and protected industries (music, tv and movies). Keep in mind, most of what we're talking about is still 1st generation tech no matter what offering you are talking about and accelerated development was traditionally unique to electronics and only now is it spreading to other industries.
The coolest thing is that it seems everyone is very interested in a "killer" product in this category. It should provide some real incentives to these corporations to work together developing a great platform and hopefully not fragment the market into disaster.
No need for a DVR. Update the hardware , and add an app store which doesn't restrict media delivery - e.g. allow Netflix to make a Netflix app and Spotify to make a spotify app. Success!
Hardware wise, I'd just like less noise/heat, more space (500+ GB, so my 350 GB music collection will fit...
Apps are feature we all seem to want. The idea of supporting netflix (or others) in this regard seems like a mute point when you consider the iphone/ IPT can work that way with Rhapsody subscriptions for example. I genuinely prefer the Itunes store but if "there's an app for that" on the ATV as well I think it would be a huge selling point but I think we need an improved input device. The tablet in my opinion will fit the bill nicely.
Regarding less noise. MY ATV is silent. Yours should not be making noise, but mine are hot enough to cook an egg just about all of the time.
It's the easiest setup experience I've had for a router. Had a Linksys and DLInk in the past. Both were a bear to setup. Published comparison reviews confirm this.
Oh good grief. A "bear to set up?" Frankly, with the quick setup guides and included software directions they've been pathetically simple to set up for quite some time now. One would have to be a computer novice not to be able to handle them.
Apple TV is not easy to use with .avi files, which is too bad because ATV has the most beautiful on-screen menu; but that's just not enough?Beautiful doesn't trump Functionality. Apple are surprisingly behind on this front.
AVI is a legacy format at this point. Even handbrake stopped supporting it. here's the quote from their page...
"AVI: AVI is a rough beast. It is obsolete. It does not support modern container features like chapters, muxed-in subtitles, variable framerate video, or out of order frame display. The code has not been actively maintained since 2005. Keeping it in the library while implementing new features means a very convoluted data pipeline, full of conditionals that make the code more difficult to read and maintain, and make output harder to predict. As such, it is now gone. It is not coming back, and good riddance."
What a tour de force of holier-than-thou, elitist mumbo-jumbo. What's it like looking down your nose at Apple users from your pseudo-tech perch on Mount Olympus? I mean, every single one of your techno-babble talking points is laughable.
Welcome to my ignore list and goodbye!
It would be nice if a new hardware release was good enough to be a game console as well. Some of those iPhone games might be ok on the big screen.
AppleTV is a hobby because there's no lock-in for users. If AppleTV gets subscriptions in 2010 then Apple will no longer call it a hobby. It will be a deal changer that will challenge cable companies.
It would be nice if a new hardware release was good enough to be a game console as well. Some of those iPhone games might be ok on the big screen.
I would like to see the AppleTV take off, be another Netflix, unfortunately in order to get decent downloads you need cable...and Comcast just bought NBC...ouch.
AT&T is going to hang up land lines, so there goes DSL.
AppleTV is a hobby because there's no lock-in for users. If AppleTV gets subscriptions in 2010 then Apple will no longer call it a hobby. It will be a deal changer that will challenge cable companies.
It would be nice if a new hardware release was good enough to be a game console as well. Some of those iPhone games might be ok on the big screen.
I don't think the next ATV is going to come out until the tablet comes out. Because the Tablet is going to deliver apps with larger interfaces it's a natural for Apple to coelesce the two together. The Tablet becomes much more powerful if the apps I run on it also work on the new ATV.