Considering Sprint has the EVO 4G coming out June 4th, I'm not too hopeful that we will see a late June release of the iPhone on Sprint, but I'm holding off trading my LG Lotus up to an EVO until I know what is happening with the iPhone.
No CDMA engineering hiring surge at Apple. Verizon CEO practically begging for the iPhone a couple of months ago (Apple partners normally clam up real fast when a deal is in the works). Selecting an unproven OEM PC supplier as the sole provider of a CDMA smartphone.
I'm not buying it.
I could see Apple testing Pegatron as the second supplier (next to Foxconn) for the next-generation iPhone, then eventually offering more work to Pegatron as it builds a good track record. To solely hand them such a (theoretically) important contract seems unlikely.
DigiTimes has such a spotty record, I'm inclined to dismiss this as poppycock. Maybe this should be moved to the Backpage Blog.
Exactly....good catch. Add this to another reason this shouldn't be "news."
You do understand Apple sells phones in other places of the world other the the US right? For instance, China and Brazil both of which use the same technology Verizon does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHKOsta
I don't buy it either. With Verizon rolling out LTE so soon, this makes little business sense for Apple.
I'm sure he meant 'new' as in not Foxconn. Try reading his post non-literally...
Every company is "new" at one time. Even Foxconn. No intelligent company would stay with a supplier only because that's who's been contracted in the past. Competitive bidding from multiple companies is the best way to keep costs down.
The only way this makes any sense is if Apple needs to penetrate a market for mid 2010-mid-2011. What are we talking about? 1 million phones? 2million? 5?
Or if Apple wants to include multiple radios... Even worse!
Why build a dead-end product variant, when everything you make, likely, will be supply-constrained?
Even as Verizon is starting to roll out LTE, you have to keep in mind that it doesn't have a voice standard, only data. So it'll be at least 2015 before phones will be made without the fallback radio for either GSM or CDMA. Even then, i expect CDMA to still be around in 8 years, in places where upgrade is not top priority.
So for now LTE will be used to take the data load off the 3G networks. The extra bandwidth will be necessary as more and more people upgrade to smartphones, since with Verizon, you HAVE to buy a data plan as a part of your contract.
Why build a dead-end product variant, when everything you make, likely, will be supply-constrained?
Two points:
1) Verizon is doing an LTE overlay. They are not shutting down their CDMA network anytime soon. Over the next 2-3 years we're going to see LTE/CDMA capable phones on Verizon. After that we might start seeing LTE only although it still makes sense to support CDMA for a fallback. If Apple wants to offer a Verizon/LTE phone in the next 2-3 years they will want to have CDMA support also. Making a 850Mhz CDMA variant isn't rocket science. Engineering a wold capable GSM phone is actually more complex from an RF standpoint.
2) LTE isn't going to take off overnight. Most consumers just don't know or care. CDMA speeds are good enough for most people right now. A CDMA phone launching today, replaced by an LTE/CDMA model in the future makes a lot of sense. It's probably good for 5-10 million sales minimum over the next 12-18 months.
Let's see here 35 million customers and the smallest 3G network or 95 million customers and the largest 3G network, which should Apple focus on?
It's not so simple. To add the AWS 3G band to the existing iPhone is basically trivial. The engineering effort to port the iPhone to T-Mobile USA is nominal. The current iPhones already work with T-Mobile GSM voice service as well as their EDGE data network.
To design, build, sell and support a CDMA iPhone requires far more resources: time, money, people. Plus, Apple needs a mobile operator that will agree to Apple's terms (e.g., music store, app store). Is Verizon willing to partner with Apple and give up what Verizon has historically tightly controlled?
Allegedly, when Apple was originally shopping around the iPhone, Verizon did not agree to those terms, hence Apple's focus on AT&T. Has Verizon come around? Only time will tell if Verizon will agree to Apple's terms.
Let's see here 35 million customers and the smallest 3G network or 95 million customers and the largest 3G network, which should Apple focus on?
Everything being equal, Verizon, of course. But everything isn't equal. An iPhone for Verizon will require a completely different phone because the cellular tech is completely different.
For T-Mobile, all they have to do is add a single chip for the 1700MHz band for 3GSM. In this image, it would be adding a 4th Triqient chip to the board. That's it, no additional licensing or other costly and complex scenarios that Qualcomm put on carriers and vendors that led to the creation of 3GSM in the first place.
If this is true - and I believe it is not - I will be the first one to hammer Verizon when their network takes a dump due to the horde of data-hogging handsets. What goes around, comes around. Just wait. You read it here first.
Allegedly, when Apple was originally shopping around the iPhone, Verizon did not agree to those terms, hence Apple's focus on AT&T. Has Verizon come around? Only time will tell if Verizon will agree to Apple's terms.
[/snip]
Not to question what you said, i wonder why they would make an offer to VZW in the first place....
While their service IS superior, releasing a CDMA-only phone at first would be a less sound of a decision considering the rest of the world mostly uses GSM...
I wonder if that rumor was just an educated guess, considering how Verizon crippled its phones in the past...
Not to question what you said, i wonder why they would make an offer to VZW in the first place....
While their service IS superior, releasing a CDMA-only phone at first would be a less sound of a decision considering the rest of the world mostly uses GSM...
I wonder if that rumor was just an educated guess, considering how Verizon crippled its phones in the past...
You have to go back at least 5 years ago. CDMA was much stronger then. More people were using '2G'. There are many WCDMA/3GSM networks in the world that have CDMA for their '2G' connectivity.
You also have to consider Apple's position at that time. They had never made a phone. They had to get a carrier to take a chance on them and that was unlikely going to be the carrier with strongest position, at least not without crippling everything Apple wanted to do with the iPhone. Remember, they got contracts signed with no physical demo and weren't willing to let another carrier brand their HW, cripple their SW or control their ecosystem, something Verizon was very much a fan of at the time and has only changed because of the iPhone changing the playing field.
You also have to consider what is the best strategic move for Apple. Even if I had planned on going with a GSM-based device from the start it wouldn't hurt me and would greatly benefit me to get others interested. I would have gone to Verizon gotten positive feedback and used that as leverage against AT&T to curry a more favourable deal. That's just good negotiating.
On top of that, we only have Verizon's word on this and no idea when they first spoke to either carrier or who they first intended to go with.
In other news Megatron is filing a suit claiming that Pegatron is attempting to confuse consumers be using a sound-alike name in order to take advantage of the good will currently associated with the Megatron brand.
"The report comes from DigiTimes, which has an uneven track record on Apple in general"
Name 1 - just 1 rumor DigiTimes has gotten right with regards to the iPhone in the last 3 years. They are batting an even 0% - Anything they say about the iPhone has been proven to be false. I can't believe you keep quoting them - it is shameful on your part.
I don't buy it either. With Verizon rolling out LTE so soon, this makes little business sense for Apple.
Yeah, you are right. More than doubling your reachable US customer base makes no sense at all. I mean, what company in their right mind would want to increase their worldwide sales by 30%?
Comments
Smells fishy.
No CDMA engineering hiring surge at Apple. Verizon CEO practically begging for the iPhone a couple of months ago (Apple partners normally clam up real fast when a deal is in the works). Selecting an unproven OEM PC supplier as the sole provider of a CDMA smartphone.
I'm not buying it.
I could see Apple testing Pegatron as the second supplier (next to Foxconn) for the next-generation iPhone, then eventually offering more work to Pegatron as it builds a good track record. To solely hand them such a (theoretically) important contract seems unlikely.
DigiTimes has such a spotty record, I'm inclined to dismiss this as poppycock. Maybe this should be moved to the Backpage Blog.
Exactly....good catch. Add this to another reason this shouldn't be "news."
I don't buy it either. With Verizon rolling out LTE so soon, this makes little business sense for Apple.
I'm sure he meant 'new' as in not Foxconn. Try reading his post non-literally...
Every company is "new" at one time. Even Foxconn. No intelligent company would stay with a supplier only because that's who's been contracted in the past. Competitive bidding from multiple companies is the best way to keep costs down.
Or if Apple wants to include multiple radios... Even worse!
Why build a dead-end product variant, when everything you make, likely, will be supply-constrained?
.
So for now LTE will be used to take the data load off the 3G networks. The extra bandwidth will be necessary as more and more people upgrade to smartphones, since with Verizon, you HAVE to buy a data plan as a part of your contract.
Dan
Why build a dead-end product variant, when everything you make, likely, will be supply-constrained?
Two points:
1) Verizon is doing an LTE overlay. They are not shutting down their CDMA network anytime soon. Over the next 2-3 years we're going to see LTE/CDMA capable phones on Verizon. After that we might start seeing LTE only although it still makes sense to support CDMA for a fallback. If Apple wants to offer a Verizon/LTE phone in the next 2-3 years they will want to have CDMA support also. Making a 850Mhz CDMA variant isn't rocket science. Engineering a wold capable GSM phone is actually more complex from an RF standpoint.
2) LTE isn't going to take off overnight. Most consumers just don't know or care. CDMA speeds are good enough for most people right now. A CDMA phone launching today, replaced by an LTE/CDMA model in the future makes a lot of sense. It's probably good for 5-10 million sales minimum over the next 12-18 months.
No T-mobile? This is Sacrilege!
Let's see here 35 million customers and the smallest 3G network or 95 million customers and the largest 3G network, which should Apple focus on?
Let's see here 35 million customers and the smallest 3G network or 95 million customers and the largest 3G network, which should Apple focus on?
It's not so simple. To add the AWS 3G band to the existing iPhone is basically trivial. The engineering effort to port the iPhone to T-Mobile USA is nominal. The current iPhones already work with T-Mobile GSM voice service as well as their EDGE data network.
To design, build, sell and support a CDMA iPhone requires far more resources: time, money, people. Plus, Apple needs a mobile operator that will agree to Apple's terms (e.g., music store, app store). Is Verizon willing to partner with Apple and give up what Verizon has historically tightly controlled?
Allegedly, when Apple was originally shopping around the iPhone, Verizon did not agree to those terms, hence Apple's focus on AT&T. Has Verizon come around? Only time will tell if Verizon will agree to Apple's terms.
Let's see here 35 million customers and the smallest 3G network or 95 million customers and the largest 3G network, which should Apple focus on?
Everything being equal, Verizon, of course. But everything isn't equal. An iPhone for Verizon will require a completely different phone because the cellular tech is completely different.
For T-Mobile, all they have to do is add a single chip for the 1700MHz band for 3GSM. In this image, it would be adding a 4th Triqient chip to the board. That's it, no additional licensing or other costly and complex scenarios that Qualcomm put on carriers and vendors that led to the creation of 3GSM in the first place.
[snip]
Allegedly, when Apple was originally shopping around the iPhone, Verizon did not agree to those terms, hence Apple's focus on AT&T. Has Verizon come around? Only time will tell if Verizon will agree to Apple's terms.
[/snip]
Not to question what you said, i wonder why they would make an offer to VZW in the first place....
While their service IS superior, releasing a CDMA-only phone at first would be a less sound of a decision considering the rest of the world mostly uses GSM...
I wonder if that rumor was just an educated guess, considering how Verizon crippled its phones in the past...
Dan
Not to question what you said, i wonder why they would make an offer to VZW in the first place....
While their service IS superior, releasing a CDMA-only phone at first would be a less sound of a decision considering the rest of the world mostly uses GSM...
I wonder if that rumor was just an educated guess, considering how Verizon crippled its phones in the past...
You have to go back at least 5 years ago. CDMA was much stronger then. More people were using '2G'. There are many WCDMA/3GSM networks in the world that have CDMA for their '2G' connectivity.
You also have to consider Apple's position at that time. They had never made a phone. They had to get a carrier to take a chance on them and that was unlikely going to be the carrier with strongest position, at least not without crippling everything Apple wanted to do with the iPhone. Remember, they got contracts signed with no physical demo and weren't willing to let another carrier brand their HW, cripple their SW or control their ecosystem, something Verizon was very much a fan of at the time and has only changed because of the iPhone changing the playing field.
You also have to consider what is the best strategic move for Apple. Even if I had planned on going with a GSM-based device from the start it wouldn't hurt me and would greatly benefit me to get others interested. I would have gone to Verizon gotten positive feedback and used that as leverage against AT&T to curry a more favourable deal. That's just good negotiating.
On top of that, we only have Verizon's word on this and no idea when they first spoke to either carrier or who they first intended to go with.
Name 1 - just 1 rumor DigiTimes has gotten right with regards to the iPhone in the last 3 years. They are batting an even 0% - Anything they say about the iPhone has been proven to be false. I can't believe you keep quoting them - it is shameful on your part.
Why do all the prototypes have a SIM tray?
Why does Apple and AT&T have a court document stating their exclusivity to end in 2012?
Why did Apple launch the iPad 3G+Wi-Fi with at&t's 3G network?
Why does Apple praise AT&T sooooo MUCH!
why are you guys still going around, wasting your time, doing these false rumors? they're annoying!
FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME! there is NOT going to be a CDMA iPhone! It's already proven.
Why do all the prototypes have a SIM tray?
Why does Apple and AT&T have a court document stating their exclusivity to end in 2012?
Why did Apple launch the iPad 3G+Wi-Fi with at&t's 3G network?
Why does Apple praise AT&T sooooo MUCH!
why are you guys still going around, wasting your time, doing these false rumors? they're annoying!
So true
I don't buy it either. With Verizon rolling out LTE so soon, this makes little business sense for Apple.
Yeah, you are right. More than doubling your reachable US customer base makes no sense at all. I mean, what company in their right mind would want to increase their worldwide sales by 30%?