Workers' rights petitions delivered to Apple's Grand Central store

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  • astrubharastrubhar Posts: 90member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post


    They know for that fact there's nowhere else Apple can go, and that would be an empty and childish threat.



    Apple has enough money to hold true to this threat. You act as though Apple has never cornered an industry and got their way. Foxconn would not be happy if Apple quit business relations. Give me one real reason Apple can't do this and I'll take the title of clueless. Just one reason.
  • hill60hill60 Posts: 6,959member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post


    1. Apple calls Foxconn and demands they pay their workers more, give them more breaks, and work them less hours or they will stop doing business with them. They also start auditing them much more aggressively.



    2. If Foxconn doesn't respond, Apple builds it's own assembly factory in China.



    See, that wasn't very hard. It just requires firm action. So what's your solution?



    Apple has already done that which is why Foxconn workers are among the highest paid in China for the type of work they do.



    Try to keep up with the times.



    So what about suppliers further down the line?



    By the time your noble crusade gets further down the supply chain you might want to notice that Apple has already been active in improving conditions there as well.



    Incidentally why don't you tell us about the clothing and shoes you are wearing now, were they made in China?



    What are the conditions like for the people who make them?
  • astrubharastrubhar Posts: 90member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    What are the conditions like for the people who make them?



    Pretty bad and it's a shame nobody is doing anything about it.
  • slurpyslurpy Posts: 4,469member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post


    It's not like I see your point anyways.



    Not surprising, you've shown yourself to be incredibly thick.



    You're asking what you can do? One thing I would suggest is actually going out and gaining some knowledge, instead of your incessant feel-good posts. Learn about the global economy. About China. About the Chinese government. About the global supply chain. About suppliers in general in China. About the average Chinese standard of living, and average income. Learn the reason why tens of thousands line up to hope to get a job at a company like Foxconn. Learn about the industrial revolution. When you learn this, you will start understanding example how massively Apple, and other companies are benefitting China and the Chinese people and economy. Learn about the drastic increase in Foxconn wages the past couple years. Try to understand the mechanisms of how that happened. Learn the concepts of relativity, environmental factors, and local economies. You clearly don't have a clue about any of this stuff. When you've gained a bit of wisdom perhaps you can to the point where you can come up with rational, sober, well thought out actions that in your mind would alleviate conditions of a very complex issue (which of course you believe to be simple through your ignorance). You're clearly nowhere near this level now, and your rambling is just that. Rambling.



    My prediction is that you'll do none of these things. You won't take the effort and dedication to understand anything, but will decide to continue mindlessly posting about issues you understand nothing about, and convincing yourself you're some noble voice of humanitarianism.
  • hill60hill60 Posts: 6,959member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post


    What do you suggest I do? Signing a petition with a quarter of a million other people is a good start.



    Where was the printer and ink made that printed out these petitions?



    Where was the paper made that they were printed on?



    How about the cardboard box the copies of the petition were delivered in?



    It would be fairly surprising if the answers aren't China, China, China.



    What are conditions like for the workers who make all these things?
  • island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post


    Apple has enough money to hold true to this threat. You act as though Apple has never cornered an industry and got their way. Foxconn would not be happy if Apple quit business relations. Give me one real reason Apple can't do this and I'll take the title of clueless. Just one reason.



    1. Where would Apple go?



    2. How long would they be out of product?



    3. How much money would they lose?



    4. How many lawsuits would they have to defend against shareholders?



    5. How long before they lost enough momentum and share to force them out of business?



    I can keep going...



    That rose color actually isn't natural. Take off the glasses.



    Clueless.
  • hill60hill60 Posts: 6,959member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post


    Pretty bad and it's a shame nobody is doing anything about it.



    Unlike Apple who ARE doing things to improve conditions for workers throughout their ENTIRE supply chain, not just Foxconn.
  • slurpyslurpy Posts: 4,469member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post


    Apple has enough money to hold true to this threat. You act as though Apple has never cornered an industry and got their way. Foxconn would not be happy if Apple quit business relations. Give me one real reason Apple can't do this and I'll take the title of clueless. Just one reason.



    Simply amazing. My reason was explicitly stated in that post you quoted. It's only 4 lines or so, shouldn't take you too much effort to find it. Try some reading comprehension.
  • astrubharastrubhar Posts: 90member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    1. Where would Apple go?



    2. How long would they be out of product?



    3. How much money would they lose?



    4. How many lawsuits would they have to defend against shareholders?



    5. How long before they lost enough momentum and share to force them out of business?



    1. Anywhere they want.



    2. They have contracts with Foxconn so they would be fine for quite a while. You act like Foxconn is the only assembly facility in the world. Getting supplies to the new facility would be the tricky part but even that isn't overwhelmingly complicated. There are plenty of companies who would kill to have an Apple contract and be willing to do anything to please them.



    3. Quite a bit of those billions they have. This wouldn't be cheap but it would be noble. Once the factory opens they'll probably be even more profitable since they cut out the middle man.



    4. Why would they sue? It's business as usual for Apple.



    5. None. The new factory could be running in six months. Foxconn deploys new factories much quicker than this.



    I guess we should throw our hands in the air and let Foxconn treat their employees terribly. That's what you're suggesting.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    Unlike Apple who ARE doing things to improve conditions for workers throughout their ENTIRE supply chain, not just Foxconn.



    This is a delusion. Very recent investigations show that there is tons of bad things going on at Foxconn even with Apple's auditing.
  • gtrgtr Posts: 3,165member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post


    1. Anywhere they want.



    2. They have contracts with Foxconn so they would be fine for quite a while. You act like Foxconn is the only assembly facility in the world. Getting supplies to the new facility would be the tricky part but even that isn't overwhelmingly complicated. There are plenty of companies who would kill to have an Apple contract and be willing to do anything to please them.



    3. Quite a bit of those billions they have. This wouldn't be cheap but it would be noble. Once the factory opens they'll probably be even more profitable since they cut out the middle man.



    4. Why would they sue? It's business as usual for Apple.



    5. None. The new factory could be running in six months. Foxconn deploys new factories much quicker than this.



    I guess we should throw our hands in the air and let Foxconn treat their employees terribly. That's what you're suggesting.









    This is a delusion. Very recent investigations show that there is tons of bad things going on at Foxconn even with Apple's auditing.



    Is the suicide rate at Foxconn higher or lower than the rest of China?
  • astrubharastrubhar Posts: 90member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GTR View Post


    Is the suicide rate at Foxconn higher or lower than the rest of China?



    It's lower because most of China is living in extreme poverty. This shouldn't be a reason to justify working conditions at Foxconn.
  • apple ][apple ][ Posts: 7,903member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post


    It's lower because most of China is living in extreme poverty. This shouldn't be a reason to justify working conditions at Foxconn.



    Actually, it's a perfect reason to justify working conditions and here's a perfect statistic which proves that there aren't any problems there to be concerned about.



    I quickly found this from Feb. 2011, where it says that there were 17 suicides at Foxconn.



    http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/0...linchina/all/1



    That is extremely low and more people should be killing themselves to fall in line with worldwide averages.



    In the US, according to what I see on wiki, the suicide rate is 11.8 per 100,000 people, so times that figure by ten and we get 118 for a million people.



    So there you have it. Not enough people are killing themselves over there, and they can consider themselves to be extremely lucky as their suicide rate is extremely low.



    So what exactly are people protesting? That their suicide rate is far lower than ours?



  • slurpyslurpy Posts: 4,469member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post


    1. Anywhere they want.



    2. They have contracts with Foxconn so they would be fine for quite a while. You act like Foxconn is the only assembly facility in the world. Getting supplies to the new facility would be the tricky part but even that isn't overwhelmingly complicated. There are plenty of companies who would kill to have an Apple contract and be willing to do anything to please them.



    3. Quite a bit of those billions they have. This wouldn't be cheap but it would be noble. Once the factory opens they'll probably be even more profitable since they cut out the middle man.



    4. Why would they sue? It's business as usual for Apple.



    5. None. The new factory could be running in six months. Foxconn deploys new factories much quicker than this.



    I guess we should throw our hands in the air and let Foxconn treat their employees terribly. That's what you're suggesting.



    This is a delusion. Very recent investigations show that there is tons of bad things going on at Foxconn even with Apple's auditing.



    The sheer amount of stupid in this post just made my head explode. 'Cut out the middle-man'...you're fucking serious, aren't you? That's scary. Please stop posting.. some people could have given you the benefit of the doubt, had you not exposed your vapidity. Every post you make you dig your self deeper into a hole you can no longer emerge from. I noticed you did exactly what I predicted you would do- ignore my advice about getting some facts, and just keep on posting garbage. You're lazy, and refuse to educate yourself. Pretty shameful.



    You want Apple to manufacture their own circuit boards? screens? screws? batteries? Memory? You know that Apple deals with dozens of companies that supply and manufacture these components, right? It's why it's called a supply CHAIN. And every single one of these suppliers is based in China, each of which is specialized in manufacturing one or more of these components, then passing it along the chain, until it gets to final assembly. Foxconn itself outsources to many companies. There's probably 100+ companies involved directly and indirectly in creating iPhone components. You're suggesting that Apple ABSORBS this entire supply chain, bringing it in-house? In your 1st paragraph you state there are plenty of companies that would kill to have apple contracts, then contradict yourself and say they will cut out the middle-man..which is it?? And since you want this magical Apple factory to NOT be in China, do you suggest all these components get shipped back and forth from China to wherever the hell this factory will be? This makes logistical sense to you? I can ask you another 100 questions you won't have a clue about how to answer.



    Everything is 'simple to you', because you don't have the faintest clue of what you're talking about. Yes, things are simple when you refuse to think about them. Back in reality, they're not. People are rationally responding to you, explaining why the things you suggest are ridiculous and impossible. Your response is basically 'Who cares, Apple should do it anyway, they have money'. Seriously, how old are you?
  • astrubharastrubhar Posts: 90member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post


    You want Apple to manufacture their own circuit boards? screens? screws? batteries? Memory? You know that Apple deals with dozens of companies that supply and manufacture these components, right? It's why it's called a supply CHAIN. And every single one of these suppliers is based in China, each of which is specialized in manufacturing one or more of these components, then passing it along the chain, until it gets to final assembly. Foxconn itself outsources to many companies. There's probably 100+ companies involved directly and indirectly in creating iPhone components. You're suggesting that Apple ABSORBS this entire supply chain, bringing it in-house? In your 1st paragraph you state there are plenty of companies that would kill to have apple contracts, then contradict yourself and say they will cut out the middle-man..which is it?? And since you want this magical Apple factory to NOT be in China, do you suggest all these components get shipped back and forth from China to wherever the hell this factory will be? This makes logistical sense to you? I can ask you another 100 questions you won't have a clue about how to answer.



    I talked about cutting Foxconn out of the picture. You're the one who jumped to the conclusion that I meant the entire supply chain. These parts are delivered to Foxconn from Samsung, Qualcomm, Skyworks, Toshiba, OmniVision and others. Foxconn does not produce these parts. Placing the factory somewhere else just means they need a different address. They're placing millions of dollars in parts on each plane. It's not that expensive.



    Your best argument now is that I'm an idiot? I guess human rights violations still aren't enough to prompt drastic change. You're also assuming Foxconn wont do anything about it. Apple is a huge contract and they will very likely comply to their requests. This was all a hypothetical solution. Meanwhile, you have yet to product a single solution. Guess it's just easier to criticize. I'm being very professional and respectful. I should be asking you how old you are.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    That is extremely low and more people should be killing themselves to fall in line with worldwide averages.



    Do you really think that is funny?
  • hill60hill60 Posts: 6,959member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    Actually, it's a perfect reason to justify working conditions and here's a perfect statistic which proves that there aren't any problems there to be concerned about.



    I quickly found this from Feb. 2011, where it says that there were 17 suicides at Foxconn.



    http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/0...linchina/all/1



    That is extremely low and more people should be killing themselves to fall in line with worldwide averages.



    In the US, according to what I see on wiki, the suicide rate is 11.8 per 100,000 people, so times that figure by ten and we get 118 for a million people.



    So there you have it. Not enough people are killing themselves over there, and they can consider themselves to be extremely lucky as their suicide rate is extremely low.



    So what exactly are people protesting? That their suicide rate is far lower than ours?







    Maybe he can console himself by buying Samsung, smug in the knowledge that the suicide rate in South Korea is only 31.2 per 100,000, the second highest on Earth.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_suicide_rate
  • apple ][apple ][ Posts: 7,903member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post


    Do you really think that is funny?



    Yes, I do indeed find that extremely funny.



    But the point of my post was not to be funny, but to provide a factual comparison of suicide rates, and I have to say that these "concerned" people who are protesting really strike me as ignorant and uninformed individuals who really don't have a clue as to what they are talking about.
  • apple ][apple ][ Posts: 7,903member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    Maybe he can console himself by buying Samsung, smug in the knowledge that the suicide rate in South Korea is only 31.2 per 100,000, the second highest on Earth.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_suicide_rate



    Yeah, I noticed that myself when I was on that page.



    I wonder what makes Lithuania such a horrible place to live, since they seem to win the gold medal for worldwide suicide rates. I mean, I don't even think that they make any iPhones in Lithuania. Do they even have any Apple stores there?
  • gtrgtr Posts: 3,165member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post


    It's lower because most of China is living in extreme poverty. This shouldn't be a reason to justify working conditions at Foxconn.



    Have you ever been to China?
  • hill60hill60 Posts: 6,959member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    Yeah, I noticed that myself when I was on that page.



    I wonder what makes Lithuania such a horrible place to live, since they seem to win the gold medal for worldwide suicide rates. I mean, I don't even think that they make any iPhones in Lithuania. Do they even have any Apple stores there?



    Maybe Lithuania has a really corrupt judicial system.



    Defence "The deceased backed into a knife my client was using to peel an apple, seventeen times."



    Judges verdict "Obviously suicide, case dismissed"



  • rayz66rayz66 Posts: 5member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post


    It's lower because most of China is living in extreme poverty. This shouldn't be a reason to justify working conditions at Foxconn.



    So your solution is for Apple to pull out of Foxconn, causing poverty for the laid-off workers and increases in the suicide rate?
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