Exactly. I've now at last dropped everything Google on the Mac thanks to dickduckgo.com for search, however Apple need to allow the iPad and iPhone to set that as a default option. DDG manage to get round that limitation on the Mac with an extension but I've not found a way to do that in iOS.
Apple found it advantageous to ask for Google's assistance when the iPhone services were created. Apple couldn't offer maps or a search engine. They didn't have the experience to properly do so. Inevitably Apple used Google until it benefited them more to offer their own maps. Eventually they'll probably also figure out another search strategy. Apple did the same with Pandora but they're not wanted anymore either. Not the first time or the last that Apple decides to kick a stage partner to the curb once they've figured out how to best offer an equivalent service. That's business.
For now it benefits Apple to keep Google around. I doubt the majority of Apple users have a problem with them in the first place. Google provides an easy-to-use, thorough and accurate search with specialized features none of the others offer.
Is google making android gun on IOS? This seems extreme here since there isn't even a safari, icloud, Ana apple maps set of apps on android.
Android run on iOS? Apple would probably block an App that would make that happen. Applications like that do already exist for Windows and Blackberry (I believe both are made by Bluestacks). It actually benefits android tremendously. Instead of having to develop for Windows, Blackberry, and android, developers can just develop for android and it will work on all three platforms. I believe there are more android Apps available for the new Blackberry than actual native Blackberry apps.
The other way around, safari, iCloud, and Apple maps not being available on Android are more Apples choice than anyone elses. Apple would be free to make and distribute those packages/services on Android (or elsewhere)- but to many those products are seen as inferior. Apple currently keeps them as Apple 'exclusives' to try and drive hardware sales.
It is a catch 22 for Apple. As hardware margins will continue to feel downward pressure Apple is going to rely more on its app store and apps for revenue. At some point they'll probably realize that limiting their software offerings to only a small percentage of the market is no longer a competitive edge and open up those services to the whole market.
The challenge for them will be that without the closed walls, those services will be faced with competition. iCloud in its current state is more expensive and generally considered inferior to other offerings. That is fine as long as it is the only choice users have, but if you introduce it to a market that already has less expensive and better alternatives it is not likely to do well.
Maps is another challenge. Maps services generally get better and better the more user input they get. Apple maps gets input only from a subset of Apple users. Google maps gets input from, well, pretty much everyone. As long as Apple chooses to limit the people providing input to Apple maps it is going to be at a disadvantage.
Apple sells hardware with software as the main selling point. Allowing key Apple software/features to be on other devices is stupid. It will decrease sales of hardware. It also won't stop margins from decreasing. (And margins are still pretty high).
iPhone users use their phones more often than Android users.
Apple found it advantageous to ask for Google's assistance when the iPhone services were created. Apple couldn't offer maps or a search engine. They didn't have the experience to properly do so. Inevitably Apple used Google until it benefited them more to offer their own maps. Eventually they'll probably also figure out another search strategy. Apple did the same with Pandora but they're not wanted anymore either. Not the first time or the last that Apple decides to kick a stage partner to the curb once they've figured out how to best offer an equivalent service. That's business.
For now it benefits Apple to keep Google around. I doubt the majority of Apple users have a problem with them in the first place. Google provides an easy-to-use, thorough and accurate search with specialized features none of the others offer.
Apple, and Steve in particular, were very happy to partner with Google back then, heck Steve encouraged and helped them in every way he could. We are now discussing an era where we know what Google did with that trust and help. Knife in the back is the best analogy I can think of.
I say again, everyone move to duckduckgo.com as well as Apple Maps. Let's continue (see Google earnings today) to show Google just how much they screwed up, screwing Apple. /rant over
Wow. . . An ad on a webpage really bothers you. Does it bother you just as much that Apple is also tracking you, gathering info on what you view, what music you listen to, what apps you use, what you do for a living and what your income is, who your other family members are and where you're located at any given moment? Building as accurate a profile of you as they can to also "sell you to advertisers" and use for other marketing efforts, tho so far on a much smaller scale than Google.
In actual fact what Google does is what every other company does. They give you something of value. They expect to paid paid for it in some way. For radio stations to exist someone has to pay. For newspapers to exist someone has to pay. TV, HBO, AppleInsider and millions of other services offer some value in return for payment in some form so they can continue to offer a service. And yes they all do whatever they can (or should) to better understand where their payment comes from and what drives it higher. In almost all cases whether it's selling cars, milk or ads it means the better they understand what you want the more revenue they can get. Apple isn't offering iRadio for free (they could). Either accept advertising served up just for you and your interests or pay them straight up cash for the service. They'll still gather data for your profile but the ads won't appear.
Perhaps when Google starts selling hardware too as Apple does then you won't be so afraid of them since not all their income will then be coming from advertising.:\
The implication here is that selling advertising makes a company less trustworthy compared to selling hardware, because much of what you say here applies to Apple as well. This may be a popular (tftfy) opinion of this forum, but it seems that although Google collects a lot of personal data, they have more incentive than most other companies to keep your data safe. If a business manages to obtain Google's datasets, it would be less willing to pay Google to target ads for them. The success of an ad company depends on keeping your personal info a company secret, because only then would businesses keep paying the ad company to act as a middleman. Leaking your personal preferences would directly undercut Google's business.
Yea - sorry if I was unclear, err TUI. I didn't mean that Google are selling data sets, as you say, no point in that.
I did mean that my ip can be sold again and again.
We in this household are no different to millions of others.
One modem distributing dhcp addresses to connected devices. (12 fixed plus kids friends that come and go, So call it anywhere from 20-30)
I can limit Google for my browsing habits but not for everybody.
I am an unwilling participant in Googles enterprise whether I like it or not.
I don't go along with your notion that Apple is a hardware company only. that's plainly untrue and ridiculous
Really easy to explain from my point of view. (as if its not apparent from my posts)
I trust Apple.
I don't trust Google.
There you go - nothing you can post will alter my position.
Wow !
We can agree to disagree. No problem.
cheers, r
It just seems like an irrational worry over an ad that Google thinks you might be interested in that you probably didn't look at anyway. Hardly evil IMO. Fair enough tho.
Google's actions aren't really unexpected. Apple's inability to set default apps can be frustrating for both users and developers. I want to email someone from a browser link, mail app pops up instead of gmail or mailbox. I want to add an event, calendar appears instead of fantastical.
So the only way to work around this is to create an app ecosystem of your own, especially if you want to deliver the "google" experience. As it is, these apps are really good. They aren't inferior to apple's core apps, all the moreso when you are using a older iphone (and so did not get the full ios benefits to the core apps. For instance, google now is the next best thing to Siri for the iPhone 4 and 3GS.
To me, this is just the beginning, expect gmail to allow you to open shared google doc links directly (instead of being directed go the browser version) and let you attach links from google drive (similar to what Dropbox did for mailbox). Better inter-app communication is likely only a matter of time as well.
Comments
Apple found it advantageous to ask for Google's assistance when the iPhone services were created. Apple couldn't offer maps or a search engine. They didn't have the experience to properly do so. Inevitably Apple used Google until it benefited them more to offer their own maps. Eventually they'll probably also figure out another search strategy. Apple did the same with Pandora but they're not wanted anymore either. Not the first time or the last that Apple decides to kick a stage partner to the curb once they've figured out how to best offer an equivalent service. That's business.
For now it benefits Apple to keep Google around. I doubt the majority of Apple users have a problem with them in the first place. Google provides an easy-to-use, thorough and accurate search with specialized features none of the others offer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Hannah
Is google making android gun on IOS? This seems extreme here since there isn't even a safari, icloud, Ana apple maps set of apps on android.
Android run on iOS? Apple would probably block an App that would make that happen. Applications like that do already exist for Windows and Blackberry (I believe both are made by Bluestacks). It actually benefits android tremendously. Instead of having to develop for Windows, Blackberry, and android, developers can just develop for android and it will work on all three platforms. I believe there are more android Apps available for the new Blackberry than actual native Blackberry apps.
The other way around, safari, iCloud, and Apple maps not being available on Android are more Apples choice than anyone elses. Apple would be free to make and distribute those packages/services on Android (or elsewhere)- but to many those products are seen as inferior. Apple currently keeps them as Apple 'exclusives' to try and drive hardware sales.
It is a catch 22 for Apple. As hardware margins will continue to feel downward pressure Apple is going to rely more on its app store and apps for revenue. At some point they'll probably realize that limiting their software offerings to only a small percentage of the market is no longer a competitive edge and open up those services to the whole market.
The challenge for them will be that without the closed walls, those services will be faced with competition. iCloud in its current state is more expensive and generally considered inferior to other offerings. That is fine as long as it is the only choice users have, but if you introduce it to a market that already has less expensive and better alternatives it is not likely to do well.
Maps is another challenge. Maps services generally get better and better the more user input they get. Apple maps gets input only from a subset of Apple users. Google maps gets input from, well, pretty much everyone. As long as Apple chooses to limit the people providing input to Apple maps it is going to be at a disadvantage.
iPhone users use their phones more often than Android users.
Apple, and Steve in particular, were very happy to partner with Google back then, heck Steve encouraged and helped them in every way he could. We are now discussing an era where we know what Google did with that trust and help. Knife in the back is the best analogy I can think of.
I say again, everyone move to duckduckgo.com as well as Apple Maps. Let's continue (see Google earnings today) to show Google just how much they screwed up, screwing Apple. /rant over
What a total misunderstanding of the situation.
Then explain it to me. . . that is unless I really didn't misunderstand.
I trust Apple.
I don't trust Google.
There you go - nothing you can post will alter my position.
Wow !
We can agree to disagree. No problem.
cheers, r
edit: Im sure digitalclips has his own thoughts on clarifying things for you as well.
Yea - sorry if I was unclear, err TUI. I didn't mean that Google are selling data sets, as you say, no point in that.
I did mean that my ip can be sold again and again.
We in this household are no different to millions of others.
One modem distributing dhcp addresses to connected devices. (12 fixed plus kids friends that come and go, So call it anywhere from 20-30)
I can limit Google for my browsing habits but not for everybody.
I am an unwilling participant in Googles enterprise whether I like it or not.
I don't go along with your notion that Apple is a hardware company only. that's plainly untrue and ridiculous
cheers, r
It just seems like an irrational worry over an ad that Google thinks you might be interested in that you probably didn't look at anyway. Hardly evil IMO. Fair enough tho.
Google's actions aren't really unexpected. Apple's inability to set default apps can be frustrating for both users and developers. I want to email someone from a browser link, mail app pops up instead of gmail or mailbox. I want to add an event, calendar appears instead of fantastical.
So the only way to work around this is to create an app ecosystem of your own, especially if you want to deliver the "google" experience. As it is, these apps are really good. They aren't inferior to apple's core apps, all the moreso when you are using a older iphone (and so did not get the full ios benefits to the core apps. For instance, google now is the next best thing to Siri for the iPhone 4 and 3GS.
To me, this is just the beginning, expect gmail to allow you to open shared google doc links directly (instead of being directed go the browser version) and let you attach links from google drive (similar to what Dropbox did for mailbox). Better inter-app communication is likely only a matter of time as well.
Come back when you're angry and indignant... And entitled and feel threatened