Isn't that page of written instructions hearsay also?
I do know that it has not been independently verified. Plus it could be argued that a one to one email from Jobs doesn't necessarily constitute an official announcement. Steve's emails are vague enough that you could easily argue that they are being taken out of context. Not a whole lot of meat with them.
ETA: I don't think this case has much standing since all the phones are well in their return period. The only thing preventing returns would be inventory limits (something that is understandable in the first week). Apple also has a big out here - they never made any guarantees thats the iPhone would never drop calls. With only s few people in this suit, a judge is going to want to know why they haven't gotten replacements or returns. Apple also has a defense saying that the phones could have been defective...
just wanted to clarify that there is no restocking fee when returing an iPhone. You have 30 days to deciide if you want to keep the phone and the contract. THERE IS NO RESTOCKING FEE on iPhones.
If everyone who bought an iPhone 4 who are having issues with it were to return it this would have a far greater impact on Apple than some money grabbing lawsuit.
Hey, everyone who bought an iPhone 4, you still have 24 days to return it for a FULL REFUND! There is no need to sue Apple. Just get your money back and get a life.
That depends entirely on where you bought it. If you bought the phone through Apple or AT&T then I believe they're not charging a restocking fee. But if you bought it from Best Buy or Radio Shack then they will charge you a restocking fee. IIRC, it's 10% at Best Buy and %15 at Radio Shack.
During that week the company's chairman and CEO has denied in writing that there is a problem, and the company has sent written instructions to its store employees describing specifically how they should deny there is a problem when faced with customer complaints.
What exactly do you imagine would change, and how many weeks would you give it?
Isn't that page of written instructions hearsay also?
At the moment perhaps it is, though it may be worth noting that the site that posted it has not been compelled to post a retraction.
Ultimately its authenticity will be determined by the courts.
Lawsuit? Really? By the time this thing would get to court, the iPhone 4 will be a distant memory. And even if they win, what will they get? Millions for the lawyers and the consumer gets a coupon for $20 off purchase of an iPhone 9...
If there were no restocking fee, if you could return the phone for a full refund, would this case even be file-able? What is the status of returns and restocking fees by the way
I believe if you buy an iPhone from Best Buy or Radio Shack they will charge a restocking fee if you return it.
I think we can all agree that the iPhone has a flaw that when held like a 'phone' it loses it's signal and ability to make calls.
All Apple has to do is admit it is flawed, recall the devices and fix it.
By being in denial and telling people not to hold it like a phone is like something out of a Monty Python sketch.
There are worldwide reports this iPhone 4 is showing the same defect, no matter what carrier.
Apple is being a greedy corporation and refuses to accept the 1000s of people who say that the phone is defective.
I change my handset every 18 months and currently have the iPhone 3Gs - I, and many of my friends, work colleagues have never heard of or owned a phone that loses it signal when held.
Hey, everyone who bought an iPhone 4, you still have 24 days to return it for a FULL REFUND! There is no need to sue Apple. Just get your money back and get a life.
The problem is that the majority of people on this board complaining don't even own iPhones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron
2 simple, easy, basic questions for you before I choose to ignore you completely -
1. Do you have an iPhone 4?
2. Are you able to reproduce this issue yourself?
If you answer no to either of these - just get the fuck off this new bandwagon.
Most importantly, identify which issue they're reproducing. IMHO, simply showing a signal drop is irrelevant. Apple has stated - and a lot of people have confirmed - that lots of phones show a signal drop but never drop calls. I can easily show a signal drop, but I've never dropped a call. Furthermore, dropped calls is only an issue if the phone drops more calls than other phones in the same conditions - which is why data is needed, not just "waaaah, waaah, waaah, I have a problem".
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
This will need to be addressed soon by Apple, one way or another. It is a serious issue, seemingly affecting a fair number of people (including me)..
Actually, I haven't seen any evidence that very many people exhibit dropped calls. There are a lot of people who see the number of bars drop, but that's a cosmetic issue. There are relatively few reports of dropped calls.
Anand's report confirms my own experience - that the iPhone 4 actually has better reception than previous versions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarenDino
Exactly, it is like buying the latest sports car, only to find when you hold the steering wheel the engine stalls !!!!!
More like the car won't start if you're standing on your head with one hand in the glove compartment and the other in the trunk. It's actually fairly difficult to get your hand into position where the effect is observed while making a phone call.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle76
I have an iPhone 4, and I can reproduce the problem nearly 100% of the time -- right down to "Searching ..." and "No Signal" -- at which point I am unable to make a call. Otherwise, I love the phone, and of course I can hold it in such a way that the problem is avoided when making a call. I've never liked cases, and I really don't like the ugly Apple bumpers. It's certainly something I can work around, but if there is any way to improve it with a software upgrade, I wish they would get on with it.
If Apple can improve it with a software upgrade, they will. Do you have NO knowledge of Apple's history? They regularly improve these little problems with software patches when they are able.
You admit that it's simply a matter of holding the phone slightly differently. Considering how awkward it is to hold the phone cupped in your left hand while making a call, that's not a huge sacrifice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac
Wow. I didn't know there was such a thing as AI forum police. Do you have a little Apple Insider badge too?
The person you're responding to said that only people who have an iPhone - and therefore direct knowledge of the issue - should be responding. That's a fairly reasonable position. I'm getting tired of the endless stream of Apple-haters who launch into endless attacks on Apple over issues that don't affect them and never will.
No, they don't. ALL cell phones can suffer from signal attenuation when held in a certain way. All iPhone models have this, too. The other -- more serious -- problem with the iPhone 4 is that the two antenna are on the OUTSIDE of the phone and when the phone is held in such a way that conductive skin connects these two antenna, then signal is lost and calls can be dropped. There are two different issues here.
If everyone who bought an iPhone 4 who are having issues with it were to return it this would have a far greater impact on Apple than some money grabbing lawsuit.
May be you are right! But 90% of the people are blissful in thier $29 bumpers or cases. So I doubt if Apple will feel the pinch financially. For them, saving the face, saving the ego and PR will be equally important.
just wanted to clarify that there is no restocking fee when returing an iPhone. You have 30 days to deciide if you want to keep the phone and the contract. THERE IS NO RESTOCKING FEE on iPhones.
Apple employee
Can you confirm that there is no restocking fee if you buy an iPhone from places like Best Buy or Radio Shack and try to return them?
I do know that it has not been independently verified. Plus it could be argues that a one to one email from Jobs doesn't necessarily constitute an official announcement. Steve's emails are vague enough that you could easily argue that they are being taken out of context. Not a whole lot of meat with them.
True, one can take them different ways depending on what the definition of "is" is.
But that his emails are being used by the company's opposition in this case only further suggests a "problem discussion" between the Board and the CEO, if it hasn't happened already.
First of all it was last month, not earlier this month, since its the 1st July.
I love my iPhone4 but I've made several test calls and tested several scenarios. Whenever I have a 3G signal and I touch the bottom left corner, the 3G signal disappears and goes down to standard GPRS (not edge) or no data at all. So when holding the phone in a way that all right handed people would (not even most), to do something other than make calls, like texting or browsing the web, the signal goes down to crawling internet speed (GPRS) or often no data at all, unless I have wifi.
If I'm on a call on 3G and I touch the bottom left corner, the 3G signal dies and the call drops. This has happened several times accidentally. Even though Im aware there is a problem, like most people, when your on a call your mind is concentrating on the conversation, not how your holding the phone. Not to mention if you hold the phone in any other way than what feels natural, your more likely to drop it.. and smashed glass galore.
If I'm already on GPRS or Edge, I have no problems at all, the signal does drop's by a few bars, but I have no dropped calls.
This might suggest dropped calls can kinda be fixed with a software update, that is if they can update the software so that it doesn't drop a call when going from 3G to 2G Normal calls. Of course that doesn't solve the issue entirely since i'd still be loosing the faster internet, but its a lot less problematic.
I understand that most phones have a drop in signal if held in a certain way. But no other phone as far as I'm aware drops its call entirely and consistently when doing so, so its unfair for Apple to make this comparison.
I'm in the UK on O2. On launch day all the sales counters had bumpers (or equivalent) and everyone was asked it they wanted to buy one. This is my 4th iPhone and they have NEVER done that before. Apple has also never made a case for its iphone before, and mysteriously it only covers the antenna. These things suggest Apple knew about this before it started selling the phone and the 'Bumper' name appears to be somewhat of a decoy. Unfortunately they probably didn't find out until after mass production, after it had been announced or when it was too far down pre production to turn back.
The plus's of the new iPhone far outweigh the negatives for me, and until there is a fix I'll just turn off 3G, since I'm usually on Wifi anyway. I don't want to buy a case, as I don't see the point in owning something for its beauty, then covering it up in something horrid so you can never truly appreciate it.
This doesn't excuse Apples neglect. Best thing they can do is own up and fix the issue. I can't see them winning this legal case, even with their hot lawyers.
That depends entirely on where you bought it. If you bought the phone through Apple or AT&T then I believe they're not charging a restocking fee. But if you bought it from Best Buy or Radio Shack then they will charge you a restocking fee. IIRC, it's 10% at Best Buy and %15 at Radio Shack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iphtashu Fitz
I believe if you buy an iPhone from Best Buy or Radio Shack they will charge a restocking fee if you return it.
Which at that point it is no longer Apple's problem since those restocking fees are not set or determined by Apple. The retailer determines the restocking fee, not the product manufacturer.
First of all, I don't really understand why someone has to own a product to be able to voice a negative opinion on it.
Simply because if they haven't used the product, they don't know what the f$ck they're talking about.
What happens is that one person has a problem and then 50,000 Apple-haters endlessly bash Apple over this problem - that they never experienced and have no way of experiencing since most of them refuse to ever buy anything from Apple. This stirs up a feeding frenzy and agitates more people to spew FUD - and then the press jumps in. You end up with endless, mindless bashing based on a few anecdotal reports.
I prefer a civilized world based on data and facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh
I didn't read the full filing, did the plaintiffs ask the court to order Apple to preserve Steve Jobs's email on the [email protected] account?
Once the suit is filed, there's no need to specifically ask for something to be retained. Destroying evidence is a felony, by default.
Furthermore, in these Sarbox days, those documents would need to be retained, anyway.
I can barely make calls on mine, I've been holding phones the same way for the last 15 years. All of a sudden I'm doing something wrong?
I agree that its a total pain in the ass to return a phone. Maybe the UK is easier but restocking fees, waiting in line for useless att employees to tell me theres some loop hole as to why I can't return it on such day, contract hassles, etc. I don't have time for any of that.
If apple said from day one "Theres an issue, we're working on a fix" then cool, thats awesome. But to just be a dick and tell everyone their stupid is why the lawsuits are popping up. Especially when theres countless apple ads, steve himself and other apple employees all holding the phone the axact same way.
They need to say YES theres a problem, here's how we plan to fix it (coating the phone, free bumpers, software etc. ) or heres a PAINLESS way to return it for a different phone, complete refund or down grade to a 3GS that actually works.
For me I can't wait for a resolution so I gave apple more of my money for a stupid piece of plastic that wraps around the phone. but at least I can use the thing for phone calls now. It's fantastic at everything, I love it as the newest, fastest coolest gadget. But as a phone its terrible with out paying apple for a bumper case which is wrong. It's wrong for a company this big with this many loyal customers to just blow them off after they spent $300 on your product.
Hey, everyone who bought an iPhone 4, you still have 24 days to return it for a FULL REFUND! There is no need to sue Apple. Just get your money back and get a life.
i read this and think the topic is dead
because
like ya know
duh
return the damn thing and move on
alas the morons and people who just love to chit chat
will keep this non issue alive
apple is such a planet wide force that the fringe nut jobs all come whenever apple misess a beat
skip
leave your basement and get out and play in the park with your kids or at least un hook and enjpy the nature around us . cause anyone dwelling in this topic needs to hit the refresh button
But that his emails are being used by the company's opposition in this case only further suggests a "problem discussion" between the Board and the CEO, if it hasn't happened already.
I'm not aware of any "problem discussion" between the board and the CEO. Can you show me where that has been confirmed? A private email doesn't say much of anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iandean
This doesn't excuse Apples neglect. Best thing they can do is own up and fix the issue. I can't see them winning this legal case, even with their hot lawyers.
Sorry, I'm going to have to call you on this. You have to prove neglect and nobody has been able to do this. I doubt that can be done with a product being on the market for about a week. Cite please.
Comments
Isn't that page of written instructions hearsay also?
I do know that it has not been independently verified. Plus it could be argued that a one to one email from Jobs doesn't necessarily constitute an official announcement. Steve's emails are vague enough that you could easily argue that they are being taken out of context. Not a whole lot of meat with them.
ETA: I don't think this case has much standing since all the phones are well in their return period. The only thing preventing returns would be inventory limits (something that is understandable in the first week). Apple also has a big out here - they never made any guarantees thats the iPhone would never drop calls. With only s few people in this suit, a judge is going to want to know why they haven't gotten replacements or returns. Apple also has a defense saying that the phones could have been defective...
Apple employee
:-) Thanks for watching out for Apple!
If everyone who bought an iPhone 4 who are having issues with it were to return it this would have a far greater impact on Apple than some money grabbing lawsuit.
Hey, everyone who bought an iPhone 4, you still have 24 days to return it for a FULL REFUND! There is no need to sue Apple. Just get your money back and get a life.
That depends entirely on where you bought it. If you bought the phone through Apple or AT&T then I believe they're not charging a restocking fee. But if you bought it from Best Buy or Radio Shack then they will charge you a restocking fee. IIRC, it's 10% at Best Buy and %15 at Radio Shack.
During that week the company's chairman and CEO has denied in writing that there is a problem, and the company has sent written instructions to its store employees describing specifically how they should deny there is a problem when faced with customer complaints.
What exactly do you imagine would change, and how many weeks would you give it?
Isn't that page of written instructions hearsay also?
At the moment perhaps it is, though it may be worth noting that the site that posted it has not been compelled to post a retraction.
Ultimately its authenticity will be determined by the courts.
If there were no restocking fee, if you could return the phone for a full refund, would this case even be file-able? What is the status of returns and restocking fees by the way
I believe if you buy an iPhone from Best Buy or Radio Shack they will charge a restocking fee if you return it.
I think we can all agree that the iPhone has a flaw that when held like a 'phone' it loses it's signal and ability to make calls.
All Apple has to do is admit it is flawed, recall the devices and fix it.
By being in denial and telling people not to hold it like a phone is like something out of a Monty Python sketch.
There are worldwide reports this iPhone 4 is showing the same defect, no matter what carrier.
Apple is being a greedy corporation and refuses to accept the 1000s of people who say that the phone is defective.
I change my handset every 18 months and currently have the iPhone 3Gs - I, and many of my friends, work colleagues have never heard of or owned a phone that loses it signal when held.
The Nexus One has the same problem...
http://blog.keithbradnam.com/signal-...ne-might-be-as
Hey, everyone who bought an iPhone 4, you still have 24 days to return it for a FULL REFUND! There is no need to sue Apple. Just get your money back and get a life.
The problem is that the majority of people on this board complaining don't even own iPhones.
2 simple, easy, basic questions for you before I choose to ignore you completely -
1. Do you have an iPhone 4?
2. Are you able to reproduce this issue yourself?
If you answer no to either of these - just get the fuck off this new bandwagon.
Most importantly, identify which issue they're reproducing. IMHO, simply showing a signal drop is irrelevant. Apple has stated - and a lot of people have confirmed - that lots of phones show a signal drop but never drop calls. I can easily show a signal drop, but I've never dropped a call. Furthermore, dropped calls is only an issue if the phone drops more calls than other phones in the same conditions - which is why data is needed, not just "waaaah, waaah, waaah, I have a problem".
This will need to be addressed soon by Apple, one way or another. It is a serious issue, seemingly affecting a fair number of people (including me)..
Actually, I haven't seen any evidence that very many people exhibit dropped calls. There are a lot of people who see the number of bars drop, but that's a cosmetic issue. There are relatively few reports of dropped calls.
Anand's report confirms my own experience - that the iPhone 4 actually has better reception than previous versions.
Exactly, it is like buying the latest sports car, only to find when you hold the steering wheel the engine stalls !!!!!
More like the car won't start if you're standing on your head with one hand in the glove compartment and the other in the trunk. It's actually fairly difficult to get your hand into position where the effect is observed while making a phone call.
I have an iPhone 4, and I can reproduce the problem nearly 100% of the time -- right down to "Searching ..." and "No Signal" -- at which point I am unable to make a call. Otherwise, I love the phone, and of course I can hold it in such a way that the problem is avoided when making a call. I've never liked cases, and I really don't like the ugly Apple bumpers. It's certainly something I can work around, but if there is any way to improve it with a software upgrade, I wish they would get on with it.
If Apple can improve it with a software upgrade, they will. Do you have NO knowledge of Apple's history? They regularly improve these little problems with software patches when they are able.
You admit that it's simply a matter of holding the phone slightly differently. Considering how awkward it is to hold the phone cupped in your left hand while making a call, that's not a huge sacrifice.
Wow. I didn't know there was such a thing as AI forum police. Do you have a little Apple Insider badge too?
The person you're responding to said that only people who have an iPhone - and therefore direct knowledge of the issue - should be responding. That's a fairly reasonable position. I'm getting tired of the endless stream of Apple-haters who launch into endless attacks on Apple over issues that don't affect them and never will.
The Nexus One has the same problem...
http://blog.keithbradnam.com/signal-...ne-might-be-as
No, they don't. ALL cell phones can suffer from signal attenuation when held in a certain way. All iPhone models have this, too. The other -- more serious -- problem with the iPhone 4 is that the two antenna are on the OUTSIDE of the phone and when the phone is held in such a way that conductive skin connects these two antenna, then signal is lost and calls can be dropped. There are two different issues here.
If everyone who bought an iPhone 4 who are having issues with it were to return it this would have a far greater impact on Apple than some money grabbing lawsuit.
May be you are right! But 90% of the people are blissful in thier $29 bumpers or cases. So I doubt if Apple will feel the pinch financially. For them, saving the face, saving the ego and PR will be equally important.
just wanted to clarify that there is no restocking fee when returing an iPhone. You have 30 days to deciide if you want to keep the phone and the contract. THERE IS NO RESTOCKING FEE on iPhones.
Apple employee
Can you confirm that there is no restocking fee if you buy an iPhone from places like Best Buy or Radio Shack and try to return them?
I do know that it has not been independently verified. Plus it could be argues that a one to one email from Jobs doesn't necessarily constitute an official announcement. Steve's emails are vague enough that you could easily argue that they are being taken out of context. Not a whole lot of meat with them.
True, one can take them different ways depending on what the definition of "is" is.
But that his emails are being used by the company's opposition in this case only further suggests a "problem discussion" between the Board and the CEO, if it hasn't happened already.
I love my iPhone4 but I've made several test calls and tested several scenarios. Whenever I have a 3G signal and I touch the bottom left corner, the 3G signal disappears and goes down to standard GPRS (not edge) or no data at all. So when holding the phone in a way that all right handed people would (not even most), to do something other than make calls, like texting or browsing the web, the signal goes down to crawling internet speed (GPRS) or often no data at all, unless I have wifi.
If I'm on a call on 3G and I touch the bottom left corner, the 3G signal dies and the call drops. This has happened several times accidentally. Even though Im aware there is a problem, like most people, when your on a call your mind is concentrating on the conversation, not how your holding the phone. Not to mention if you hold the phone in any other way than what feels natural, your more likely to drop it.. and smashed glass galore.
If I'm already on GPRS or Edge, I have no problems at all, the signal does drop's by a few bars, but I have no dropped calls.
This might suggest dropped calls can kinda be fixed with a software update, that is if they can update the software so that it doesn't drop a call when going from 3G to 2G Normal calls. Of course that doesn't solve the issue entirely since i'd still be loosing the faster internet, but its a lot less problematic.
I understand that most phones have a drop in signal if held in a certain way. But no other phone as far as I'm aware drops its call entirely and consistently when doing so, so its unfair for Apple to make this comparison.
I'm in the UK on O2. On launch day all the sales counters had bumpers (or equivalent) and everyone was asked it they wanted to buy one. This is my 4th iPhone and they have NEVER done that before. Apple has also never made a case for its iphone before, and mysteriously it only covers the antenna. These things suggest Apple knew about this before it started selling the phone and the 'Bumper' name appears to be somewhat of a decoy. Unfortunately they probably didn't find out until after mass production, after it had been announced or when it was too far down pre production to turn back.
The plus's of the new iPhone far outweigh the negatives for me, and until there is a fix I'll just turn off 3G, since I'm usually on Wifi anyway. I don't want to buy a case, as I don't see the point in owning something for its beauty, then covering it up in something horrid so you can never truly appreciate it.
This doesn't excuse Apples neglect. Best thing they can do is own up and fix the issue. I can't see them winning this legal case, even with their hot lawyers.
That depends entirely on where you bought it. If you bought the phone through Apple or AT&T then I believe they're not charging a restocking fee. But if you bought it from Best Buy or Radio Shack then they will charge you a restocking fee. IIRC, it's 10% at Best Buy and %15 at Radio Shack.
I believe if you buy an iPhone from Best Buy or Radio Shack they will charge a restocking fee if you return it.
Which at that point it is no longer Apple's problem since those restocking fees are not set or determined by Apple. The retailer determines the restocking fee, not the product manufacturer.
First of all, I don't really understand why someone has to own a product to be able to voice a negative opinion on it.
Simply because if they haven't used the product, they don't know what the f$ck they're talking about.
What happens is that one person has a problem and then 50,000 Apple-haters endlessly bash Apple over this problem - that they never experienced and have no way of experiencing since most of them refuse to ever buy anything from Apple. This stirs up a feeding frenzy and agitates more people to spew FUD - and then the press jumps in. You end up with endless, mindless bashing based on a few anecdotal reports.
I prefer a civilized world based on data and facts.
I didn't read the full filing, did the plaintiffs ask the court to order Apple to preserve Steve Jobs's email on the [email protected] account?
Once the suit is filed, there's no need to specifically ask for something to be retained. Destroying evidence is a felony, by default.
Furthermore, in these Sarbox days, those documents would need to be retained, anyway.
I agree that its a total pain in the ass to return a phone. Maybe the UK is easier but restocking fees, waiting in line for useless att employees to tell me theres some loop hole as to why I can't return it on such day, contract hassles, etc. I don't have time for any of that.
If apple said from day one "Theres an issue, we're working on a fix" then cool, thats awesome. But to just be a dick and tell everyone their stupid is why the lawsuits are popping up. Especially when theres countless apple ads, steve himself and other apple employees all holding the phone the axact same way.
They need to say YES theres a problem, here's how we plan to fix it (coating the phone, free bumpers, software etc. ) or heres a PAINLESS way to return it for a different phone, complete refund or down grade to a 3GS that actually works.
For me I can't wait for a resolution so I gave apple more of my money for a stupid piece of plastic that wraps around the phone. but at least I can use the thing for phone calls now. It's fantastic at everything, I love it as the newest, fastest coolest gadget. But as a phone its terrible with out paying apple for a bumper case which is wrong. It's wrong for a company this big with this many loyal customers to just blow them off after they spent $300 on your product.
Hey, everyone who bought an iPhone 4, you still have 24 days to return it for a FULL REFUND! There is no need to sue Apple. Just get your money back and get a life.
i read this and think the topic is dead
because
like ya know
duh
return the damn thing and move on
alas the morons and people who just love to chit chat
will keep this non issue alive
apple is such a planet wide force that the fringe nut jobs all come whenever apple misess a beat
skip
leave your basement and get out and play in the park with your kids or at least un hook and enjpy the nature around us . cause anyone dwelling in this topic needs to hit the refresh button
brucp included
peace dogs
peace
9
But that his emails are being used by the company's opposition in this case only further suggests a "problem discussion" between the Board and the CEO, if it hasn't happened already.
I'm not aware of any "problem discussion" between the board and the CEO. Can you show me where that has been confirmed? A private email doesn't say much of anything.
This doesn't excuse Apples neglect. Best thing they can do is own up and fix the issue. I can't see them winning this legal case, even with their hot lawyers.
Sorry, I'm going to have to call you on this. You have to prove neglect and nobody has been able to do this. I doubt that can be done with a product being on the market for about a week. Cite please.