If apple said from day one "Theres an issue, we're working on a fix" then cool, thats awesome. .
Except no company is going to do that. That would open themselves up to huge liabilities if they try to blanket cover something that they might not have a good understanding of something. That's way too risky. They aren't going to say anything official until they know what they are up against and can actually address it properly.
What a bunch of moaning pricks. If it aint working for you then take it back. Better that than looking for a handout. Scamming bastards the lot of them.
In the UK there is a 14 day return period where you can cancel the contract and return the handset. You will only be charged for any usage.
In the USA on AT&T you can cancel the contract within 3 days with no extra fees or within 30 days and you only have to pay the activation fee plus any usage. No excuses to stay with the phone if it does not work for you. No reason to go suing anyone for profit. They should change the law to make these solicitor firms put up a bond to cover court fees if they are unsuccessful. A 10 million dollar bond should keep the shysters out of the courts.
Aside from your rudeness, there might be more to the store for some people. Personally, I gave my phone to my son, so an exchange would prompt me either yanking it (not something I want to try) or a re-purchase of a new 3Gs, which seems silly. On top of the 10% changes, a lot of money for the same phone that I had.
If really want an iPhone that works Apple is still selling the 3Gs. Why not pick up one of those as an exchange? It is even cheaper.
You are right... I might just have to do that.....I m ight even just opt out entirely...not sure at this moment..... Apple has really handled this whole issue poorly. At this point I don't know if I want another iPhone.....
Its not that easy...If I return my phone. What will I use then? i will have to buy another phone now......
I just renewed my contract for another 2 years with AT&T to get this phone......no I am stuck....
What did you replace with your new iPhone 4? I replaced an iPhone 3G and I can roll back to that if I decided to return my iPhone 4 and revisit this whole thing in 2-4 months.
Now if every brand new product generated class action lawsuits for major glitches and design issues, then ignoble lawyers would be even richer than they already are.
Maybe some of these litigious folks should wait for the software fix before suing.
If really want an iPhone that works Apple is still selling the 3Gs. Why not pick up one of those as an exchange? It is even cheaper.
If I'm reading these articles correctly the 4G gets better reception than a 3GS if you buy a case for it. I think that's the route I'd go. It does stink that in some cases folks are having to put the 4G in a case for it to work well for them. It's an inelegant solution. That being said, I've never had an iphone that I didn't have in a case just to protect it from when I inevitably drop it.
In the UK there is a 14 day return period where you can cancel the contract and return the handset. You will only be charged for any usage.
In the USA on AT&T you can cancel the contract within 3 days with no extra fees or within 30 days and you only have to pay the activation fee plus any usage. No excuses to stay with the phone if it does not work for you. No reason to go suing anyone for profit. They should change the law to make these solicitor firms put up a bond to cover court fees if they are unsuccessful. A 10 million dollar bond should keep the shysters out of the courts.
alas the morons and people who just love to chit chat
will keep this non issue alive
apple is such a planet wide force that the fringe nut jobs all come whenever apple misess a beat
skip
leave your basement and get out and play in the park with your kids or at least un hook and enjpy the nature around us . cause anyone dwelling in this topic needs to hit the refresh button
The person you're responding to said that only people who have an iPhone - and therefore direct knowledge of the issue - should be responding. That's a fairly reasonable position. I'm getting tired of the endless stream of Apple-haters who launch into endless attacks on Apple over issues that don't affect them and never will.
I take it that the 10% restocking fee is the issue? Otherwise, I see no case. There's nothing preventing any company from releasing a flawed product - not saying it truly is flawed - as long as the product doesn't physically harm anyone or financially set anyone back as a result of the flaw.
What did you replace with your new iPhone 4? I replaced an iPhone 3G and I can roll back to that if I decided to return my iPhone 4 and revisit this whole thing in 2-4 months.
That would be an option if I kept my 3Gs. I gave it to my step daughter. She is using it on her own AT&T plan. So I cannot just ask for the phone back now......
I should have waited and not be an early adopter of the new phone....I just expected it to work as advertised in the keynote presentation.....
I look forward to the giant sticker on the iPhone 4 noting that left-handed people are probably under the influence of witchcraft and should be beat into being right-handed or burned at the stake.
Why do people assume that lefties hold the phone with their left hand? I actually hold my phone with my right hand thus leaving my left hand free to operate the phone. But then, that's just me. If anything, I would think righties would be the ones holding the phone in their left hands.
Does anyone else realize that it also has to do with how good the signal is in your area? I can't make my iPhone do it everywhere but, I can hold my iPhone 4 normally and stop data all together in most places, but in some areas the reception is fine no matter how I hold it. So... based on this knowledge, don't you think that perhaps the people who aren't having this issue simply live in a really strong signal area?
I personally think that this is an issue with every iPhone 4 but some people do not experience it because they live in an area that has very strong signals.
But that his emails are being used by the company's opposition in this case only further suggests a "problem discussion" between the Board and the CEO, if it hasn't happened already.
I'm not aware of any "problem discussion" between the board and the CEO. Can you show me where that has been confirmed?
Nowhere. Had you read the comment you quoted you'd note that it includes "if it hasn't happened already", denoting that it may not have happened yet.
At least, not over this episode.
Some of us who've been Apple customers for a while remember the last time Jobs got a dressing-down from the Board.
Quote:
A private email doesn't say much of anything.
You're free to feel that way but courts often subpoena emails as evidence, and written statements from a company representative to a customer on an issue are commonly seen as statements of the company's position on that issue.
Hey, everyone who bought an iPhone 4, you still have 24 days to return it for a FULL REFUND! There is no need to sue Apple. Just get your money back and get a life.
Although I've seen this response many times on the forums, it doesn't resolve the principle arguement that the device has a "known" defect inherent to it and should be addressed by Apple. It's been reported that, Apple is trying to fluff it off and hope it goes away. That's not a responsible reaction to the issue, IMO. However, if the consumers want to make a statement, they should return them. No better way to make a statement. But, we still don't know for certain what the actual number (%-wise) of consumers that legitimately have this problem. That's why a law-suit may be valid. But, i didn't see any word of forcing a recall. That would be my main point of restitution. To make them fix the problem, not just pay damages; Apple has way too much cash-on-hand that they could just settle out of court and forget it ever happened. That worries me a little, and beacuse the lawfirm suing (at least the one name in this post) are known "am-ba-lance" chasers.
I do know that it has not been independently verified. Plus it could be argued that a one to one email from Jobs doesn't necessarily constitute an official announcement. Steve's emails are vague enough that you could easily argue that they are being taken out of context. Not a whole lot of meat with them.
ETA: I don't think this case has much standing since all the phones are well in their return period. The only thing preventing returns would be inventory limits (something that is understandable in the first week). Apple also has a big out here - they never made any guarantees thats the iPhone would never drop calls. With only s few people in this suit, a judge is going to want to know why they haven't gotten replacements or returns. Apple also has a defense saying that the phones could have been defective...
There was no page at all. BGR typed some text into a grey box with a blue line on their web page. They claim the information came from an "Apple Connect". They do not claim to have seen a document.
AI, MR, and about everyone else who cares more abouts hits than credibility decided to add the "document" or "memo" piece to the story. To be clear the fancy document on BGR is not a picture of anything. The bolding was done by BGR. You would think people running all these other web sites would look at the HTML and understand what they are dealing with.
I think it would be hilarious to see a picture of that grey box in court...
just wanted to clarify that there is no restocking fee when returing an iPhone. You have 30 days to deciide if you want to keep the phone and the contract. THERE IS NO RESTOCKING FEE on iPhones.
Apple employee
maybe not from the Apple store but
there absolutely is a restocking fee if you bought the phone from AT&T
Notice the lawsuit says "design AND manufacturing defects." I received my iPhone4 yesterday and I cannot make the problem happen. I went to a known poor signal location and managed to make 1 more bar disappear before it bounced back to 4 bars.
Another friend just got his i4...again no problem. A 3rd friend got his on release day and he can go from 5 bars to no signal in < minute.
I'm really starting to think this is/was a manufacturing defect especially prevalent in the 1st/2nd batch of phones. The biggest issue here is how Apple is dealing with it. Instead of coming out and saying they released a bad batch they are trying to wait it out presumably to avoid replacing the entire 1st batch.
Again, I think it can't be pointed out too frequently that there are several separate issues involved that are all being lumped together in the hysteria of this discussion. They are:
Quote:
1. Signal loss related to holding a phone not in a case.
This happens, but, according to most analyses and reports, the phone continues to work with good call quality.
2. Complete signal loss related to bridging the seam.
This has been demonstrated in various videos, but apparently not with all phones as some people are not able to reproduce it, including cases of 2 phones in the same location handled by 2 different people where one phone, handled by either person, consistently exhibits the problem while the other consistently does not.
3. Proximity sensor issues.
It is widely reported that the proximity sensor does not behave correctly, causing numerous instances of people accidentally muting or hanging up calls. It's unclear if this is an issue on all phones, or only on some.
The first issue is not, I think, anything Apple needs to do anything about since the phone apparently continues to work, and many reviewers have stated that it works better than previous iPhones.
The second issue is definitely a problem, but because it doesn't affect all iP4s, it seems almost certain that it's not a design problem, but some sort of manufacturing issue, which could be related to an assembly defect, out of spec hardware, or incorrect firmware or iOS versions being loaded on phones. This problem Apple needs to address in a manner appropriate to the exact nature of of the problem.
If it's a hardware issue that can't be mitigated with a software fix, an offer of the option of a free case or full refund (including any carrier fees) would I think be acceptable. Although, while it might cost more, I think it would be in Apple's long-term interest to recall these devices and replace them.
If it's a software issue, or a hardware issue that can be mitigated with a software fix, I think it's entirely acceptable that Apple do so and that a recall or other offer of compensation is not necessary. However, if a software fix somehow compromises the phones performance in other ways, I again think it would be in Apple's long-term interest to recall and replace.
The third issue is obviously something Apple needs to address. Again, it's not clear if this is a hardware or software issue, although, it can probably can be satisfactorily addressed in software, regardless of the exact cause. Based on reports seen about this issue, I think it's likely that at least some, and perhaps many, of the "dropped calls" people are reporting are actually related to this problem, and not to the other 2 issues.
I think it's also important to point out that Apple has made no official statement regarding any of these issues. Leaked memos and private emails do not count as official statements. It hardly seems necessary, but apparently is, to point out that it's only been 1 week since the phones release. Obviously, there are several issues involved (as outlined above, and perhaps other issues that they have to sort through, as well) and, frankly, it's just crazy to expect them to be in a position to make an official statement at this time: almost anything they say now could turn out to be incorrect, which is nearly as much a disservice to customers as never admitting any issues.
I think it's entirely reasonable to give them at least 4-6 weeks to sort out all the issues involved and determine a course of action. If they can't do so in that time frame, they should then at least acknowledge that there are issues they are investigating, and how widespread they appear to be. I don't think it's acceptable for them to just maintain a silence and not publicly address these issues, and I'd be very disappointed in them if they were to do so.
However, in the meantime, I do think that those who are slinging mud at Apple nonstop over these issues, especially including those who, like me, do not own an iPhone 4 (I would have if AT&T were to have allowed me to upgrade, and, sure, it's easy for me to remain calm because I'm clearly not affected, but rationality ought never be out of style.), are either caught in the grip of some hysteria, or are simply opportunistic Apple bashers who are seizing on these issues to do just that -- i.e., they don't give a damn about whether there are real iP4 issues or not, or about people inconvenienced by them, but are simply happy to have a stick to beat apple with. I think there are quite a few of the latter here, and no small number of the former.
Giving in to the hysteria is just as bad as irrationally claiming that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the iP4. Coming here solely for the perverse pleasure of bashing Apple is simply pathetic.
Comments
This is really starting to be a clusterfuck.
If apple said from day one "Theres an issue, we're working on a fix" then cool, thats awesome. .
Except no company is going to do that. That would open themselves up to huge liabilities if they try to blanket cover something that they might not have a good understanding of something. That's way too risky. They aren't going to say anything official until they know what they are up against and can actually address it properly.
ETA:
You think this might be exhibit "A" in the case?
No, that was a wi-fi issue and not a cellular issue. It's irrelevant.
What a bunch of moaning pricks. If it aint working for you then take it back. Better that than looking for a handout. Scamming bastards the lot of them.
In the UK there is a 14 day return period where you can cancel the contract and return the handset. You will only be charged for any usage.
In the USA on AT&T you can cancel the contract within 3 days with no extra fees or within 30 days and you only have to pay the activation fee plus any usage. No excuses to stay with the phone if it does not work for you. No reason to go suing anyone for profit. They should change the law to make these solicitor firms put up a bond to cover court fees if they are unsuccessful. A 10 million dollar bond should keep the shysters out of the courts.
Aside from your rudeness, there might be more to the store for some people. Personally, I gave my phone to my son, so an exchange would prompt me either yanking it (not something I want to try) or a re-purchase of a new 3Gs, which seems silly. On top of the 10% changes, a lot of money for the same phone that I had.
If really want an iPhone that works Apple is still selling the 3Gs. Why not pick up one of those as an exchange? It is even cheaper.
You are right... I might just have to do that.....I m ight even just opt out entirely...not sure at this moment..... Apple has really handled this whole issue poorly. At this point I don't know if I want another iPhone.....
Its not that easy...If I return my phone. What will I use then? i will have to buy another phone now......
I just renewed my contract for another 2 years with AT&T to get this phone......no I am stuck....
What did you replace with your new iPhone 4? I replaced an iPhone 3G and I can roll back to that if I decided to return my iPhone 4 and revisit this whole thing in 2-4 months.
Maybe some of these litigious folks should wait for the software fix before suing.
If really want an iPhone that works Apple is still selling the 3Gs. Why not pick up one of those as an exchange? It is even cheaper.
If I'm reading these articles correctly the 4G gets better reception than a 3GS if you buy a case for it. I think that's the route I'd go. It does stink that in some cases folks are having to put the 4G in a case for it to work well for them. It's an inelegant solution. That being said, I've never had an iphone that I didn't have in a case just to protect it from when I inevitably drop it.
In the UK there is a 14 day return period where you can cancel the contract and return the handset. You will only be charged for any usage.
In the USA on AT&T you can cancel the contract within 3 days with no extra fees or within 30 days and you only have to pay the activation fee plus any usage. No excuses to stay with the phone if it does not work for you. No reason to go suing anyone for profit. They should change the law to make these solicitor firms put up a bond to cover court fees if they are unsuccessful. A 10 million dollar bond should keep the shysters out of the courts.
Thank you! What he said.
i read this and think the topic is dead
because
like ya know
duh
return the damn thing and move on
alas the morons and people who just love to chit chat
will keep this non issue alive
apple is such a planet wide force that the fringe nut jobs all come whenever apple misess a beat
skip
leave your basement and get out and play in the park with your kids or at least un hook and enjpy the nature around us . cause anyone dwelling in this topic needs to hit the refresh button
brucp included
peace dogs
peace
9
The person you're responding to said that only people who have an iPhone - and therefore direct knowledge of the issue - should be responding. That's a fairly reasonable position. I'm getting tired of the endless stream of Apple-haters who launch into endless attacks on Apple over issues that don't affect them and never will.
Incredible. Absolutely incredible.
What did you replace with your new iPhone 4? I replaced an iPhone 3G and I can roll back to that if I decided to return my iPhone 4 and revisit this whole thing in 2-4 months.
That would be an option if I kept my 3Gs. I gave it to my step daughter. She is using it on her own AT&T plan. So I cannot just ask for the phone back now......
I should have waited and not be an early adopter of the new phone....I just expected it to work as advertised in the keynote presentation.....
I look forward to the giant sticker on the iPhone 4 noting that left-handed people are probably under the influence of witchcraft and should be beat into being right-handed or burned at the stake.
Why do people assume that lefties hold the phone with their left hand? I actually hold my phone with my right hand thus leaving my left hand free to operate the phone. But then, that's just me. If anything, I would think righties would be the ones holding the phone in their left hands.
I personally think that this is an issue with every iPhone 4 but some people do not experience it because they live in an area that has very strong signals.
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post
But that his emails are being used by the company's opposition in this case only further suggests a "problem discussion" between the Board and the CEO, if it hasn't happened already.
I'm not aware of any "problem discussion" between the board and the CEO. Can you show me where that has been confirmed?
Nowhere. Had you read the comment you quoted you'd note that it includes "if it hasn't happened already", denoting that it may not have happened yet.
At least, not over this episode.
Some of us who've been Apple customers for a while remember the last time Jobs got a dressing-down from the Board.
A private email doesn't say much of anything.
You're free to feel that way but courts often subpoena emails as evidence, and written statements from a company representative to a customer on an issue are commonly seen as statements of the company's position on that issue.
Hey, everyone who bought an iPhone 4, you still have 24 days to return it for a FULL REFUND! There is no need to sue Apple. Just get your money back and get a life.
Although I've seen this response many times on the forums, it doesn't resolve the principle arguement that the device has a "known" defect inherent to it and should be addressed by Apple. It's been reported that, Apple is trying to fluff it off and hope it goes away. That's not a responsible reaction to the issue, IMO. However, if the consumers want to make a statement, they should return them. No better way to make a statement. But, we still don't know for certain what the actual number (%-wise) of consumers that legitimately have this problem. That's why a law-suit may be valid. But, i didn't see any word of forcing a recall. That would be my main point of restitution. To make them fix the problem, not just pay damages; Apple has way too much cash-on-hand that they could just settle out of court and forget it ever happened. That worries me a little, and beacuse the lawfirm suing (at least the one name in this post) are known "am-ba-lance" chasers.
I do know that it has not been independently verified. Plus it could be argued that a one to one email from Jobs doesn't necessarily constitute an official announcement. Steve's emails are vague enough that you could easily argue that they are being taken out of context. Not a whole lot of meat with them.
ETA: I don't think this case has much standing since all the phones are well in their return period. The only thing preventing returns would be inventory limits (something that is understandable in the first week). Apple also has a big out here - they never made any guarantees thats the iPhone would never drop calls. With only s few people in this suit, a judge is going to want to know why they haven't gotten replacements or returns. Apple also has a defense saying that the phones could have been defective...
There was no page at all. BGR typed some text into a grey box with a blue line on their web page. They claim the information came from an "Apple Connect". They do not claim to have seen a document.
AI, MR, and about everyone else who cares more abouts hits than credibility decided to add the "document" or "memo" piece to the story. To be clear the fancy document on BGR is not a picture of anything. The bolding was done by BGR. You would think people running all these other web sites would look at the HTML and understand what they are dealing with.
I think it would be hilarious to see a picture of that grey box in court...
just wanted to clarify that there is no restocking fee when returing an iPhone. You have 30 days to deciide if you want to keep the phone and the contract. THERE IS NO RESTOCKING FEE on iPhones.
Apple employee
maybe not from the Apple store but
there absolutely is a restocking fee if you bought the phone from AT&T
Notice the lawsuit says "design AND manufacturing defects." I received my iPhone4 yesterday and I cannot make the problem happen. I went to a known poor signal location and managed to make 1 more bar disappear before it bounced back to 4 bars.
Another friend just got his i4...again no problem. A 3rd friend got his on release day and he can go from 5 bars to no signal in < minute.
I'm really starting to think this is/was a manufacturing defect especially prevalent in the 1st/2nd batch of phones. The biggest issue here is how Apple is dealing with it. Instead of coming out and saying they released a bad batch they are trying to wait it out presumably to avoid replacing the entire 1st batch.
Again, I think it can't be pointed out too frequently that there are several separate issues involved that are all being lumped together in the hysteria of this discussion. They are:
1. Signal loss related to holding a phone not in a case.
This happens, but, according to most analyses and reports, the phone continues to work with good call quality.
2. Complete signal loss related to bridging the seam.
This has been demonstrated in various videos, but apparently not with all phones as some people are not able to reproduce it, including cases of 2 phones in the same location handled by 2 different people where one phone, handled by either person, consistently exhibits the problem while the other consistently does not.
3. Proximity sensor issues.
It is widely reported that the proximity sensor does not behave correctly, causing numerous instances of people accidentally muting or hanging up calls. It's unclear if this is an issue on all phones, or only on some.
The first issue is not, I think, anything Apple needs to do anything about since the phone apparently continues to work, and many reviewers have stated that it works better than previous iPhones.
The second issue is definitely a problem, but because it doesn't affect all iP4s, it seems almost certain that it's not a design problem, but some sort of manufacturing issue, which could be related to an assembly defect, out of spec hardware, or incorrect firmware or iOS versions being loaded on phones. This problem Apple needs to address in a manner appropriate to the exact nature of of the problem.
If it's a hardware issue that can't be mitigated with a software fix, an offer of the option of a free case or full refund (including any carrier fees) would I think be acceptable. Although, while it might cost more, I think it would be in Apple's long-term interest to recall these devices and replace them.
If it's a software issue, or a hardware issue that can be mitigated with a software fix, I think it's entirely acceptable that Apple do so and that a recall or other offer of compensation is not necessary. However, if a software fix somehow compromises the phones performance in other ways, I again think it would be in Apple's long-term interest to recall and replace.
The third issue is obviously something Apple needs to address. Again, it's not clear if this is a hardware or software issue, although, it can probably can be satisfactorily addressed in software, regardless of the exact cause. Based on reports seen about this issue, I think it's likely that at least some, and perhaps many, of the "dropped calls" people are reporting are actually related to this problem, and not to the other 2 issues.
I think it's also important to point out that Apple has made no official statement regarding any of these issues. Leaked memos and private emails do not count as official statements. It hardly seems necessary, but apparently is, to point out that it's only been 1 week since the phones release. Obviously, there are several issues involved (as outlined above, and perhaps other issues that they have to sort through, as well) and, frankly, it's just crazy to expect them to be in a position to make an official statement at this time: almost anything they say now could turn out to be incorrect, which is nearly as much a disservice to customers as never admitting any issues.
I think it's entirely reasonable to give them at least 4-6 weeks to sort out all the issues involved and determine a course of action. If they can't do so in that time frame, they should then at least acknowledge that there are issues they are investigating, and how widespread they appear to be. I don't think it's acceptable for them to just maintain a silence and not publicly address these issues, and I'd be very disappointed in them if they were to do so.
However, in the meantime, I do think that those who are slinging mud at Apple nonstop over these issues, especially including those who, like me, do not own an iPhone 4 (I would have if AT&T were to have allowed me to upgrade, and, sure, it's easy for me to remain calm because I'm clearly not affected, but rationality ought never be out of style.), are either caught in the grip of some hysteria, or are simply opportunistic Apple bashers who are seizing on these issues to do just that -- i.e., they don't give a damn about whether there are real iP4 issues or not, or about people inconvenienced by them, but are simply happy to have a stick to beat apple with. I think there are quite a few of the latter here, and no small number of the former.
Giving in to the hysteria is just as bad as irrationally claiming that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the iP4. Coming here solely for the perverse pleasure of bashing Apple is simply pathetic.