I agree about the app store for the Mac being a great idea. I just don't like the UI alterations to hobble the Mac with a more iOS looking interface. Makes no sense for professionals and experienced Mac users, but it will make the noobs more comfortable. Getting a bad feeling with this looming update.
i think what they are trying to do is bring iOS features on the mac but the mac UI will still be there... for example you have to launch the Launchpad unlike in iphone which is the only interface available... the people who don't like iOS interface can still use the mac one as dock is still available there...
This sounds great, but I do have a question. I like Exposé the way it is right now, but how can I avoid using the Mission Control mess since in Lion Exposé basically IS the Mission Control?
Well first of all we don't know that Expose has been completely removed in place of Mission Control. All we know is Mission Control will be a new feature of Lion. As it is now in Snow Leopard, I don't have to invoke Spaces, Dashboard, or even Expose if I don't need to. So, completely removing them isn't necessary to add a new all inclusive feature. These features may in fact still be separate, but used in conjunction when Mission Control is invoked. Just like with Expose now; It works on its own, and it also works when Spaces is invoked.
i think what they are trying to do is bring iOS features on the mac but the mac UI will still be there... for example you have to launch the Launchpad unlike in iphone which is the only interface available... the people who don't like iOS interface can still use the mac one as dock is still available there...
Exactly, and that is the mistake. They should have taken more big and bold risks and cleaned the whole thing up more in the process. Installing apps and using them is now simpler than ever, yet using the computer is more confusing. They could have overhauled the whole thing and thought of a cool replacement for the dock. Heck - they could have made Launchpad the default view of the OS in general, somehow.
They will now have this thing called App Store (for Mac). When you download something from App Store the app goes into the 'dock', in the dock there's also an app called Launchpad, when you click Launchpad in the dock you bring up an app-launcher where the icon of the app you just downloaded is also residing? That's confusing. That's messy - by Apple's standards. It's confusing full-stop. They should have killed the dock.
i think what they are trying to do is bring iOS features on the mac but the mac UI will still be there... for example you have to launch the Launchpad unlike in iphone which is the only interface available... the people who don't like iOS interface can still use the mac one as dock is still available there...
It's exactly what they're doing, but people can't seem to grasp that these are secondary interfaces. People see a demo of a feature and for some reason think this will be the only way to do something, even though it was clearly shown to be an alternate interface.
The LaunchPad was clearly just another app that had to be launched from the Dock. Just as with Dashboard today, I'm sure it can be dragged out and removed. Never needing to be used for any reason. Same goes for the "full-screen" mode that appear when you click the 'maximize' button. Don't want to go to full screen, then don't.
no, its not the same difference, you clearly missed the point and the implication.
Also you judge an entire OS on one tiny sneak peak of a couple of features in progress. Short sighted, narrow minded, blinkered even? Some nice concepts, early days.
First thing Steve said was that there had been some major work "under the hood" but he was just going to show a couple of front end features just to show something to give a taster of the new workings.
I see the basis of a new "finder", a new way of sorting/finding apps and docs - the concept is exciting and I for one can't wait.
Exactly, and that is what the mistake is. They should have taken more big and bold risks and cleaned the whole thing up more in the process. Installing apps and using them is now simpler than ever, yet using the computer is more confusing. They could have overhauled the whole thing and thought of a cool replacement for the dock. Heck - they could have made Launchpad the default view of the OS in general, somehow.
They will now have this thing called App Store (for Mac). When you download something from App Store the app goes into the 'dock', in the dock there's a n app called Launchpad, when you click Launchpad in the dock you bring up an app-launcher whey the icon of the app you just downloaded is also residing? That's confusing. That's messy - by Apple's standards.
And you know this isn't being done? Were we shown a finished product today, because unless I was much mistaken, Steve said there were major changes in progress both under the hood and in terms of functionality. Maybe if he'd considered that from a 4 minute sneak preview some people were going to judge the entire OS he wouldn't have bothered.
It's a damn good job some of us have a little more imagination and patience.
I think you're wrong. Touch-screen works better on tablets, that's why. Touch-screen devices need to be smaller and lighter than Macs, way smaller than the Air, even. Not merely lighter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
Personally, I have zero interest in a touch screen Mac. I think it would be a terrible idea unless the form factor is completely revamped to make more ergonomic sense.
Apple will not make a video iPod. Nobody wants to watch video on an iPod.
Apple should not allow third parties to create native iPhone applications. Nobody cares about third party iPhone applications. Web apps are really SWEET.
Apple will not add GPS to the iPhone. Nobody cares about GPS on the iPhone.
Apple will not add copy and paste to the iPhone. Nobody cares about copy and paste.
Apple will not add multitasking to the iPhone. Nobody cares about multitasking.
Apple will not allow iPhone apps to be created with third party dev tools.
The dock is a launcher, Launchpad is a launcher. Kill one of them and quit fucking around. Apple normally have the balls, but this time they didn't.
The dock is instant access in all screens to favourite apps. Launchpad is way of sorting and accessing all apps. Is there any problem with having two ways of doing the same thing, exactly as you do today - use the dock, stick your apps folder into the dock to act as a stack, or view the apps folder in finder. Work the way that you prefer - it's called choice.
And you know this isn't being done? Were we shown a finished product today, because unless I was much mistaken, Steve said there were major changes in progress both under the hood and in terms of functionality. Maybe if he'd considered that from a 4 minute sneak preview some people were going to judge the entire OS he wouldn't have bothered.
It's a damn good job some of us have a little more imagination and patience.
Ok, you have patience and I'll get pissed like Gruber often does and pretty soon others shout too and Apple listens. I'm reacting to what I saw, you can do different if you want. I demand excellence from Apple, and I hope they respect that their users often do. Mission Control is ill-conceived, the whole Launchpad is too, I hope Apple knows that.
The dock is instant access in all screens to favourite apps. Launchpad is way of sorting and accessing all apps. Is there any problem with having two ways of doing the same thing.
Yes, because the whole point of launchpad is simplification. Which it doesn't achieve.
Apple will not make a video iPod. Nobody wants to watch video on an iPod.
Apple should not allow third parties to create native iPhone applications. Nobody cares about third party iPhone applications. Web apps are really SWEET.
Apple will not add GPS to the iPhone. Nobody cares about GPS on the iPhone.
Apple will not add copy and paste to the iPhone. Nobody cares about copy and paste.
Apple will not add multitasking to the iPhone. Nobody cares about multitasking.
Apple will not allow iPhone apps to be created with third party dev tools.
Apple will never switch to Intel processors.
Everyone a misquote taken out of context. Apple have always spoken for the situation as it currently is. It's never "never", he's talking about right now - right now no one wants to do this. Without the iPod infrastructure, without apple TV and the iTunes store at the level it is today there was no point in downloading a movie to your iPod - things have changed.
Multitasking? The way that multi tasking works on a desktop won't work for an iOS device, they went away and came up with a new way of dealing with it, just as Steve said they would.
Just because a company say three years ago that something currently isn't right, or ready for application, that's not a statement that things will never change.
I've never heard Steve say "ever" in any keynote he's ever given.
Apple will not make a video iPod. Nobody wants to watch video on an iPod.
Apple should not allow third parties to create native iPhone applications. Nobody cares about third party iPhone applications. Web apps are really SWEET.
Apple will not add GPS to the iPhone. Nobody cares about GPS on the iPhone.
Apple will not add copy and paste to the iPhone. Nobody cares about copy and paste.
Apple will not add multitasking to the iPhone. Nobody cares about multitasking.
Apple will not allow iPhone apps to be created with third party dev tools.
Apple will not make a video iPod. Nobody wants to watch video on an iPod.
Apple should not allow third parties to create native iPhone applications. Nobody cares about third party iPhone applications. Web apps are really SWEET.
Apple will not add GPS to the iPhone. Nobody cares about GPS on the iPhone.
Apple will not add copy and paste to the iPhone. Nobody cares about copy and paste.
Apple will not add multitasking to the iPhone. Nobody cares about multitasking.
Apple will not allow iPhone apps to be created with third party dev tools.
Apple will never switch to Intel processors.
Huh? When did I ever say one of those things? I don't care if the whole world said them, I never did. Just like I never said Apple will never make a TV. Apple's big touch screen push is the iPad, and the reason is you hold the iPad in your hands. That's why you want to touch is and it makes sense.
Yes, because the whole point of launchpad is simplification. Which it doesn't achieve.
yes, it does. For many users who come to the mac new with 10.7 their apps will be accessed in the same way as on their IOS devices - for those who choose not to work in this way, they can use the finder or the doc. All the solutions are simple, launchpad the most easy. If you can't see it's easier to move two fingers up a mouse and be presented with single click icons of your all apps in an easy to customise screen then you have no idea how the average consumer/not IT buff thinks.
No it doesn't. It would if the dock was replaced with something else and your app jumped from App Store to Launchpad, but that isn't how it works. Even the idea of having both a dock and a launchpad sucks. They should make it impossible to add apps to the dock, changing the dock to something else. Done of course in a clever and intuitive way. That would be innovative.
Huh? When did I ever say one of those things? I don't care if the whole world said them, I never did. Just like I never said Apple will never make a TV. Apple's big touch screen push is the iPad, and the reason is you hold the iPad in your hands. That's why you want to touch is and it makes sense.
I guess you weren't around before 1990 when everyone worked on a flat desk with something called paper and a pen. A million years of evolution led to us working on a flat surface with the tactile input of our hands. It's only the last 20 years that have given us a vertical work surface. I for one would be much happier working on a desk, like my old A0 parallel motion board than using a keyboard for input on a horizontal surface to interact with a vertical display. I never got the back ache in ten years of using an old fashioned desk that I get using a vertical computer monitor.
No it doesn't. It would if the dock was replaced with something else and your app jumped from App Store to Launchpad, but that isn't how it works. Even the idea of having both a dock and a launchpad sucks.
So because you have two ways of achieving the same thing, it's not simple? You're a wee bit thick if you don't mind me saying. Anyhow - 02:28 time for bed I think.
Enjoy your rant, come join the rest of us on 10.7 next year or clear off and buy ubuntu or something.
No it doesn't. It would if the dock was replaced with something else and your app jumped from App Store to Launchpad, but that isn't how it works. Even the idea of having both a dock and a launchpad sucks.
You also have no idea how it works - you were given a tiny glimpse today the same as the rest of us. So stop with the assumptions. Troll.
Comments
I agree about the app store for the Mac being a great idea. I just don't like the UI alterations to hobble the Mac with a more iOS looking interface. Makes no sense for professionals and experienced Mac users, but it will make the noobs more comfortable. Getting a bad feeling with this looming update.
i think what they are trying to do is bring iOS features on the mac but the mac UI will still be there... for example you have to launch the Launchpad unlike in iphone which is the only interface available... the people who don't like iOS interface can still use the mac one as dock is still available there...
This sounds great, but I do have a question. I like Exposé the way it is right now, but how can I avoid using the Mission Control mess since in Lion Exposé basically IS the Mission Control?
Well first of all we don't know that Expose has been completely removed in place of Mission Control. All we know is Mission Control will be a new feature of Lion. As it is now in Snow Leopard, I don't have to invoke Spaces, Dashboard, or even Expose if I don't need to. So, completely removing them isn't necessary to add a new all inclusive feature. These features may in fact still be separate, but used in conjunction when Mission Control is invoked. Just like with Expose now; It works on its own, and it also works when Spaces is invoked.
LOL, I guess you are a dogmatic mood tonight! Ireland's way or the highway!
The dock is a launcher, Launchpad is a launcher. Kill one of them and quit fucking around. Apple normally have the balls, but this time they didn't.
i think what they are trying to do is bring iOS features on the mac but the mac UI will still be there... for example you have to launch the Launchpad unlike in iphone which is the only interface available... the people who don't like iOS interface can still use the mac one as dock is still available there...
Exactly, and that is the mistake. They should have taken more big and bold risks and cleaned the whole thing up more in the process. Installing apps and using them is now simpler than ever, yet using the computer is more confusing. They could have overhauled the whole thing and thought of a cool replacement for the dock. Heck - they could have made Launchpad the default view of the OS in general, somehow.
They will now have this thing called App Store (for Mac). When you download something from App Store the app goes into the 'dock', in the dock there's also an app called Launchpad, when you click Launchpad in the dock you bring up an app-launcher where the icon of the app you just downloaded is also residing? That's confusing. That's messy - by Apple's standards. It's confusing full-stop. They should have killed the dock.
i think what they are trying to do is bring iOS features on the mac but the mac UI will still be there... for example you have to launch the Launchpad unlike in iphone which is the only interface available... the people who don't like iOS interface can still use the mac one as dock is still available there...
It's exactly what they're doing, but people can't seem to grasp that these are secondary interfaces. People see a demo of a feature and for some reason think this will be the only way to do something, even though it was clearly shown to be an alternate interface.
The LaunchPad was clearly just another app that had to be launched from the Dock. Just as with Dashboard today, I'm sure it can be dragged out and removed. Never needing to be used for any reason. Same goes for the "full-screen" mode that appear when you click the 'maximize' button. Don't want to go to full screen, then don't.
Same difference. Don't be a douche.
no, its not the same difference, you clearly missed the point and the implication.
Also you judge an entire OS on one tiny sneak peak of a couple of features in progress. Short sighted, narrow minded, blinkered even? Some nice concepts, early days.
First thing Steve said was that there had been some major work "under the hood" but he was just going to show a couple of front end features just to show something to give a taster of the new workings.
I see the basis of a new "finder", a new way of sorting/finding apps and docs - the concept is exciting and I for one can't wait.
Exactly, and that is what the mistake is. They should have taken more big and bold risks and cleaned the whole thing up more in the process. Installing apps and using them is now simpler than ever, yet using the computer is more confusing. They could have overhauled the whole thing and thought of a cool replacement for the dock. Heck - they could have made Launchpad the default view of the OS in general, somehow.
They will now have this thing called App Store (for Mac). When you download something from App Store the app goes into the 'dock', in the dock there's a n app called Launchpad, when you click Launchpad in the dock you bring up an app-launcher whey the icon of the app you just downloaded is also residing? That's confusing. That's messy - by Apple's standards.
And you know this isn't being done? Were we shown a finished product today, because unless I was much mistaken, Steve said there were major changes in progress both under the hood and in terms of functionality. Maybe if he'd considered that from a 4 minute sneak preview some people were going to judge the entire OS he wouldn't have bothered.
It's a damn good job some of us have a little more imagination and patience.
I think you're wrong. Touch-screen works better on tablets, that's why. Touch-screen devices need to be smaller and lighter than Macs, way smaller than the Air, even. Not merely lighter.
Personally, I have zero interest in a touch screen Mac. I think it would be a terrible idea unless the form factor is completely revamped to make more ergonomic sense.
Apple will not make a video iPod. Nobody wants to watch video on an iPod.
Apple should not allow third parties to create native iPhone applications. Nobody cares about third party iPhone applications. Web apps are really SWEET.
Apple will not add GPS to the iPhone. Nobody cares about GPS on the iPhone.
Apple will not add copy and paste to the iPhone. Nobody cares about copy and paste.
Apple will not add multitasking to the iPhone. Nobody cares about multitasking.
Apple will not allow iPhone apps to be created with third party dev tools.
Apple will never switch to Intel processors.
The dock is a launcher, Launchpad is a launcher. Kill one of them and quit fucking around. Apple normally have the balls, but this time they didn't.
The dock is instant access in all screens to favourite apps. Launchpad is way of sorting and accessing all apps. Is there any problem with having two ways of doing the same thing, exactly as you do today - use the dock, stick your apps folder into the dock to act as a stack, or view the apps folder in finder. Work the way that you prefer - it's called choice.
And you know this isn't being done? Were we shown a finished product today, because unless I was much mistaken, Steve said there were major changes in progress both under the hood and in terms of functionality. Maybe if he'd considered that from a 4 minute sneak preview some people were going to judge the entire OS he wouldn't have bothered.
It's a damn good job some of us have a little more imagination and patience.
Ok, you have patience and I'll get pissed like Gruber often does and pretty soon others shout too and Apple listens. I'm reacting to what I saw, you can do different if you want. I demand excellence from Apple, and I hope they respect that their users often do. Mission Control is ill-conceived, the whole Launchpad is too, I hope Apple knows that.
The dock is instant access in all screens to favourite apps. Launchpad is way of sorting and accessing all apps. Is there any problem with having two ways of doing the same thing.
Yes, because the whole point of launchpad is simplification. Which it doesn't achieve.
Apple will not make a video iPod. Nobody wants to watch video on an iPod.
Apple should not allow third parties to create native iPhone applications. Nobody cares about third party iPhone applications. Web apps are really SWEET.
Apple will not add GPS to the iPhone. Nobody cares about GPS on the iPhone.
Apple will not add copy and paste to the iPhone. Nobody cares about copy and paste.
Apple will not add multitasking to the iPhone. Nobody cares about multitasking.
Apple will not allow iPhone apps to be created with third party dev tools.
Apple will never switch to Intel processors.
Everyone a misquote taken out of context. Apple have always spoken for the situation as it currently is. It's never "never", he's talking about right now - right now no one wants to do this. Without the iPod infrastructure, without apple TV and the iTunes store at the level it is today there was no point in downloading a movie to your iPod - things have changed.
Multitasking? The way that multi tasking works on a desktop won't work for an iOS device, they went away and came up with a new way of dealing with it, just as Steve said they would.
Just because a company say three years ago that something currently isn't right, or ready for application, that's not a statement that things will never change.
I've never heard Steve say "ever" in any keynote he's ever given.
Apple will not make a video iPod. Nobody wants to watch video on an iPod.
Apple should not allow third parties to create native iPhone applications. Nobody cares about third party iPhone applications. Web apps are really SWEET.
Apple will not add GPS to the iPhone. Nobody cares about GPS on the iPhone.
Apple will not add copy and paste to the iPhone. Nobody cares about copy and paste.
Apple will not add multitasking to the iPhone. Nobody cares about multitasking.
Apple will not allow iPhone apps to be created with third party dev tools.
Apple will never switch to Intel processors.
I never said one of these things.
Apple will not make a video iPod. Nobody wants to watch video on an iPod.
Apple should not allow third parties to create native iPhone applications. Nobody cares about third party iPhone applications. Web apps are really SWEET.
Apple will not add GPS to the iPhone. Nobody cares about GPS on the iPhone.
Apple will not add copy and paste to the iPhone. Nobody cares about copy and paste.
Apple will not add multitasking to the iPhone. Nobody cares about multitasking.
Apple will not allow iPhone apps to be created with third party dev tools.
Apple will never switch to Intel processors.
Huh? When did I ever say one of those things? I don't care if the whole world said them, I never did. Just like I never said Apple will never make a TV. Apple's big touch screen push is the iPad, and the reason is you hold the iPad in your hands. That's why you want to touch is and it makes sense.
Yes, because the whole point of launchpad is simplification. Which it doesn't achieve.
yes, it does. For many users who come to the mac new with 10.7 their apps will be accessed in the same way as on their IOS devices - for those who choose not to work in this way, they can use the finder or the doc. All the solutions are simple, launchpad the most easy. If you can't see it's easier to move two fingers up a mouse and be presented with single click icons of your all apps in an easy to customise screen then you have no idea how the average consumer/not IT buff thinks.
Yes, it does.
No it doesn't. It would if the dock was replaced with something else and your app jumped from App Store to Launchpad, but that isn't how it works. Even the idea of having both a dock and a launchpad sucks. They should make it impossible to add apps to the dock, changing the dock to something else. Done of course in a clever and intuitive way. That would be innovative.
Huh? When did I ever say one of those things? I don't care if the whole world said them, I never did. Just like I never said Apple will never make a TV. Apple's big touch screen push is the iPad, and the reason is you hold the iPad in your hands. That's why you want to touch is and it makes sense.
I guess you weren't around before 1990 when everyone worked on a flat desk with something called paper and a pen. A million years of evolution led to us working on a flat surface with the tactile input of our hands. It's only the last 20 years that have given us a vertical work surface. I for one would be much happier working on a desk, like my old A0 parallel motion board than using a keyboard for input on a horizontal surface to interact with a vertical display. I never got the back ache in ten years of using an old fashioned desk that I get using a vertical computer monitor.
No it doesn't. It would if the dock was replaced with something else and your app jumped from App Store to Launchpad, but that isn't how it works. Even the idea of having both a dock and a launchpad sucks.
So because you have two ways of achieving the same thing, it's not simple? You're a wee bit thick if you don't mind me saying. Anyhow - 02:28 time for bed I think.
Enjoy your rant, come join the rest of us on 10.7 next year or clear off and buy ubuntu or something.
No it doesn't. It would if the dock was replaced with something else and your app jumped from App Store to Launchpad, but that isn't how it works. Even the idea of having both a dock and a launchpad sucks.
You also have no idea how it works - you were given a tiny glimpse today the same as the rest of us. So stop with the assumptions. Troll.
I guess you weren't around before 1990 when everyone worked on a flat desk with something called paper and a pen.
Yes, and then humans innovated to create touch screen iPads you can bring with you .