Perhaps people with iPhone 3G's were affected by bad performance, but they were also the people who would have cried had iOS 4 not been supported at all on the 3G. How do you propose that Apple solve your problem?
They didn't add bugs into the device as it didn't crash on you. (something iOS is designed to do at a bug) It simply wasn't optimized - a process that takes time and effort, and I'm sure took quite a long time on a processor as slow as the 412MHz ARM processor in a 3G.
Apple didn't deliberately cause bad performance - it was a trade-off between the features users demanded, the hardware available to run it on, users' expectations that their device would be updated (no matter what the update actually realistically included) and the time Apple's developers had to implement it into the feature-set of iOS 4.
Did the performance of your 3G suffer? Yes, my 3G did the same too. But could Apple have done anything that would have stopped you grumbling? I doubt it.
Sorry, in my opinion, if you don't like something, and it's under warranty, bring it back. If it's out of warranty, trash it, sell it, give it away ? whatever. Just don't purchase another one, or up-grade.
I'll agree with others here, and folks shouldn't jump on each up-grade that comes out. Hell if your product is working well enough, and you have been using it for a period of time, what is waiting a week or two going to hurt? In that period of time, you'll be able to watch and read rumors blogs and such, and see if the up-grade is worth it.
Should ever company only offer their products / up-grades when they are perfectly ready for the buying public to use and enjoy - you bet your ass they should! And they will, as soon as they are held accountable.
If Apple, MS, Ford, Toyota, RIM or any one sells a product and it's a pieces of crap, then it should be noted and folks should be informed. Then when said products doesn't sell, and said company losses their shirt (and share holders start hurting) - then you'll see companies being a bit more responsible.
Now is Apple doing this with malicious intent, I don't think so. Should they be held accountable, damn straight they should. Once it's proven that they did so with malicious intent, they should be made to pay, and pay in spades.
Hell, I still wondering if they should be held responsible for my battery separating on the MacBook Pro!
"Waahh! I was forced to upgrade my software to 4.0 and now my phone doesn't run as well as it used to run, either because I have it full with less than a megabyte to spare or I didn't read the disclaimer stating that iOS 4 doesn't contain every feature on my two-year-old hardware!"
"Apple disallowed the downgrading of the iPhone 3G from iOS 4 back to iOS 3.x"
This is the key. Apple should lose this lawsuit because they do not allow owners to go back to a more stable OS when a bug is encountered. They either need to issue patches immediately, or let people revert to a functional OS. There is no logical excuse not to do so.
Also, there were iPhone 3G's sold literally weeks before the iOS 4 dibacle. Some of the 3G's were 2 years old, but Apple will not be well served to suggest they do not have to support a product after a few weeks of it being discontinued, when many of them were still under warranty.
Now is Apple doing this with malicious intent, I don't think so. Should they be held accountable, damn straight they should. Once it's proven that they did so with malicious intent, they should be made to pay, and pay in spades.
Negligence does not require malicious intent. They either tested iOS 4 on an iPhone 3G and chose to release it despite the bugs (malicious) or they did not bother to adequately test it on the iPhone 3G but released a version that supported the hardware anyway (negligence). Again, they key to there being any real harm in either case is the ability, or lack thereof, for the customer to revert back to 3.1.x. While I think Apple is guilty either way, if they did intentionally release it with known bugs I would expect a much stiffer penalty. If it was purely negligence, a small compensation to 3G owners plus an agreement to allow owners to revert to the prior OS after future upgrades would be a reasonable and sufficient settlement.
I have to agree with the plaintiff, Apple should have had the option built into the iOS upgrade to roll back to a previous version, I had a 3G phone that was rendered useless by the update.
I have to agree with the plaintiff, Apple should have had the option built into the iOS upgrade to roll back to a previous version, I had a 3G phone that was rendered useless by the update.
No, you didn't. You're saying:
You couldn't upgrade to 4.0 (unresponsive device) so you could easily go back to 3.
You upgraded to 4.0 and are under the belief that the device in your hand that actually does work doesn't.
You didn't upgrade to 4.0.
You upgraded to 4.0, don't find it to be to your liking, and don't understand how to go back to 3.
It would probably hold more water if apple DID NOT support iPhone 3G cause then users would totally have to upgrade to get a taste of iOS 4. Dunno if this is just a case of spoilt consumers or greedy lawyers, but either way apple bears the brunt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranReloaded
I'll side AGAINST Apple on this one. They shouldn't have supported iOS 4 on the 3G to start with; it was unusable at best. I was using a 3G lent to me then, it sucked goat ballz. Maybe now it's smoother, but by Apple's standards it was unadmissible then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not_Sure
To me, this lawsuit has more to do with people's shift towards impatience and unwillingness to relent on instant gratification.
The 3G (which I also own) is by no means unusable. Sure, it is not "snappy", but for every task it can control (which is everything other than data transfer over a 3G network), it works very well.
Hardware changes immensely over a two year period and people have to realize that. Newer technology will always run software faster than older technology.
If any operating system should have resulted in a class action lawsuit, it should have been Vista. The operating system itself requires like twice the ram of XP. The minimum system requirements for software are always higher if you are running Vista than XP or 7.
I usually take these kinds of suits with a grain of salt. I tend to side with Apple on most of them. People seem to sue Apple anytime their product is not 100% perfect 100% of the time.
That said, I think this one has some merit. I think there is a case to be made that Apple knew iOS 4 was going to cause problems for many 3G users...but they released it and recommended the upgrade anyway. Makes sense from their perspective...most of these folks are eligible for an upgrade anyway, so let's just make them/encourage them to buy new phones.
Not sure how one goes about proving this, but yeah...I think there's something to this one.
iPhone 3G is two years ago...they can't expect apple to contiunue supporting it like the 3Gs and 4
Wrong they should support it! Is your car more than 2 years old? Do you think it should be supported? Or should the auto manufacturer say you should upgrade to an newer model?
I don't really agree with the lawsuit but c'mon...Apple should support their products....2 years is NOT a long time.....
But it was this engineered "catch 22" that Apple put into motion that really woke me up and made me realized the control their devices have (or attempt to have) over it's users. It's 2 years old, so what? I like it, and don't want to buy something new right now- so F*CK you, and F*UCK apple. F*UCK itunes and how many computers I can put my music on.
But now, I'm motivated, and guess what? I don't negotiate with terrorists either. So come November 21, when the shit service contract from AT&T expires on this now VERY shitty phone, I roll into the local Sprint office and buy a new Evo. Is it a better phone? I don't give a rip- but I'm not being held hostage by a F*cking electronic devices company.
Holy crap, man, you are angry.
Apple probably didn't design iOS4 to slow down old old phones, but they probably didn't work *that* hard to avoid it. But keep in mind, people, that the iPhone 3G has a quarter of the RAM that the iPhone 4 has, and *will* act as such, even with a lot of optimizing. It's like trying to upgrade any old computer to a new OS, except phones have a far shorter life cycle than computers. But guess what? If you're going to join an Apple-related forum to write some rage-fueled post about how much you hate Apple, then when you move to the Evo, we won't miss you.
Word of advice before you go, though; if you're going to swear, inserting an asterisk in the middle of a word doesn't do a fucking thing. (see how I did that?) If you're afraid of offending someone, that is not the way to avoid it.
And by the way, as iTunes now has DRM-free music, you can indeed put your music on any computer that you want.
"Apple disallowed the downgrading of the iPhone 3G from iOS 4 back to iOS 3.x"
This is the key. Apple should lose this lawsuit because they do not allow owners to go back to a more stable OS when a bug is encountered. They either need to issue patches immediately, or let people revert to a functional OS. There is no logical excuse not to do so.
Also, there were iPhone 3G's sold literally weeks before the iOS 4 dibacle. Some of the 3G's were 2 years old, but Apple will not be well served to suggest they do not have to support a product after a few weeks of it being discontinued, when many of them were still under warranty.
#1 - it may be that it's technically not possible to downgrade and retain all user data that has been migrated to the newer versions of the various apps.
#2 - how can they "issue patches immediately"? They instead have to write and test the changes to address the issues, which is what iOS 4.1 did.
Finally, it's kind of bizarre that a class action lawsuit would be filed now when the issues have already been addressed.
when you install a new (major) version of a program or OS, doesnt Apple make you agree to not sue them for performance issues when you agree to the EULA? There are like 20 pages of fine print on those things. I would be shocked if that kind of thing wasnt in there.
iPhone 3G is two years ago...they can't expect apple to contiunue supporting it like the 3Gs and 4
I agree, but apple shouldn't have allowed the upgrade path to 4.0 which effectively bricked my 3G. I downgraded back to 3.2 and was fine, but I am a developer and had access to the firmware. When I was testing apps on the 3G device I knew it was trouble and even filed bug reports with apple. The 3G can't multi-task anyway, the only reason to do it was the new folders feature which is nice, but not worth the dramatic decrease in performance. I hear 4.1 fixed many issues, but have not bothered to test yet. I will test 4.2 when it comes out.
I'm not all that law-knowledgeable, but I do know that a lot of legal strategy is based on 'persuasion'. Exaggeration is part of that -- to sway a judge or jury's emotions.
Oh by the way boys this has nothing to do with the age of the 3G. Apple advised that 4.0 was suitable for the 3G when clearly it wasn't. This is not debatable. Second they waited far to long to correct the problem.
This is certainly something that a consummer would stand up and protest against. Just imagine if your two year old car ended up in the shop for three months waiting for a bug fix from GM.
I'm actually surprised at all the spinless people here trying to defend Apple. How many of you would have accepted Mac OS / X going to hell after an update. We are talking to the point of barely being a usable Mac. Waiting on a show of hands................ Thought so, everyone here should expect the same quality experience from iOS as they expect from Mac OS/X. As someone else has pointed out Mac OS gets faster and more reliable with each new release. The exact opposite seems to be the case with iOS.
I was one of the many who ran home and upgraded their iPhone 3G to 4.0 the moment it came out. To my dismay, the 3G slowed down considerably. Most apps would lag noticeably while a few were still usable. However, a quick Google search a week or two later and I found a very easy roll-back procedure that worked like a charm. Sure, I had to re-load everything from scratch because (like an idiot) I backed up the phone one more time before rolling it back to 3.1 but before long, my 3G was back to 3.1.3 and working just like it used to.
Like others have stated, simply waiting a few days and then checking out the forums and blog sites would have alerted them to the issue with 4.0. I still haven't upgraded my wife's 3G (she wasn't eligible for a iPhone 4 yet) and probably won't as I'll be getting her an iPhone 4 in February anyway.
The one thing Apple definitely should have done though, is provided an official way to roll back slow and buggy 3G iPhones to the previous version. But then, people wouldn't be happy sitting at 3.1.3 or whatever and just complain about why they can't upgrade to 4.0 and later. You can't make 100% of the people happy 100% of time.
when you install a new (major) version of a program or OS, doesnt Apple make you agree to not sue them for performance issues when you agree to the EULA? There are like 20 pages of fine print on those things. I would be shocked if that kind of thing wasnt in there.
I would be shocked if this kind of thing was in there and the lawyers in that class-action suit decided to proceed anyway. Damn bloodsuckers.
Comments
They didn't add bugs into the device as it didn't crash on you. (something iOS is designed to do at a bug) It simply wasn't optimized - a process that takes time and effort, and I'm sure took quite a long time on a processor as slow as the 412MHz ARM processor in a 3G.
Apple didn't deliberately cause bad performance - it was a trade-off between the features users demanded, the hardware available to run it on, users' expectations that their device would be updated (no matter what the update actually realistically included) and the time Apple's developers had to implement it into the feature-set of iOS 4.
Did the performance of your 3G suffer? Yes, my 3G did the same too. But could Apple have done anything that would have stopped you grumbling? I doubt it.
Needless to say, I haven't installed the update and won't be.
You should have made them update it for yo at the store, and then tested it.
I'll agree with others here, and folks shouldn't jump on each up-grade that comes out. Hell if your product is working well enough, and you have been using it for a period of time, what is waiting a week or two going to hurt? In that period of time, you'll be able to watch and read rumors blogs and such, and see if the up-grade is worth it.
Should ever company only offer their products / up-grades when they are perfectly ready for the buying public to use and enjoy - you bet your ass they should! And they will, as soon as they are held accountable.
If Apple, MS, Ford, Toyota, RIM or any one sells a product and it's a pieces of crap, then it should be noted and folks should be informed. Then when said products doesn't sell, and said company losses their shirt (and share holders start hurting) - then you'll see companies being a bit more responsible.
Now is Apple doing this with malicious intent, I don't think so. Should they be held accountable, damn straight they should. Once it's proven that they did so with malicious intent, they should be made to pay, and pay in spades.
Hell, I still wondering if they should be held responsible for my battery separating on the MacBook Pro!
Skip
"Waahh! I was forced to upgrade my software to 4.0 and now my phone doesn't run as well as it used to run, either because I have it full with less than a megabyte to spare or I didn't read the disclaimer stating that iOS 4 doesn't contain every feature on my two-year-old hardware!"
That's them. That's how dumb they sound.
This is the key. Apple should lose this lawsuit because they do not allow owners to go back to a more stable OS when a bug is encountered. They either need to issue patches immediately, or let people revert to a functional OS. There is no logical excuse not to do so.
Also, there were iPhone 3G's sold literally weeks before the iOS 4 dibacle. Some of the 3G's were 2 years old, but Apple will not be well served to suggest they do not have to support a product after a few weeks of it being discontinued, when many of them were still under warranty.
Now is Apple doing this with malicious intent, I don't think so. Should they be held accountable, damn straight they should. Once it's proven that they did so with malicious intent, they should be made to pay, and pay in spades.
Negligence does not require malicious intent. They either tested iOS 4 on an iPhone 3G and chose to release it despite the bugs (malicious) or they did not bother to adequately test it on the iPhone 3G but released a version that supported the hardware anyway (negligence). Again, they key to there being any real harm in either case is the ability, or lack thereof, for the customer to revert back to 3.1.x. While I think Apple is guilty either way, if they did intentionally release it with known bugs I would expect a much stiffer penalty. If it was purely negligence, a small compensation to 3G owners plus an agreement to allow owners to revert to the prior OS after future upgrades would be a reasonable and sufficient settlement.
And apple is a million dollar company.
multi-million
I have to agree with the plaintiff, Apple should have had the option built into the iOS upgrade to roll back to a previous version, I had a 3G phone that was rendered useless by the update.
No, you didn't. You're saying:
You couldn't upgrade to 4.0 (unresponsive device) so you could easily go back to 3.
You upgraded to 4.0 and are under the belief that the device in your hand that actually does work doesn't.
You didn't upgrade to 4.0.
You upgraded to 4.0, don't find it to be to your liking, and don't understand how to go back to 3.
Upgrading didn't make your phone useless.
This lawsuit just doesn't make any sense.
It would probably hold more water if apple DID NOT support iPhone 3G cause then users would totally have to upgrade to get a taste of iOS 4. Dunno if this is just a case of spoilt consumers or greedy lawyers, but either way apple bears the brunt.
I'll side AGAINST Apple on this one. They shouldn't have supported iOS 4 on the 3G to start with; it was unusable at best. I was using a 3G lent to me then, it sucked goat ballz. Maybe now it's smoother, but by Apple's standards it was unadmissible then.
To me, this lawsuit has more to do with people's shift towards impatience and unwillingness to relent on instant gratification.
The 3G (which I also own) is by no means unusable. Sure, it is not "snappy", but for every task it can control (which is everything other than data transfer over a 3G network), it works very well.
Hardware changes immensely over a two year period and people have to realize that. Newer technology will always run software faster than older technology.
If any operating system should have resulted in a class action lawsuit, it should have been Vista. The operating system itself requires like twice the ram of XP. The minimum system requirements for software are always higher if you are running Vista than XP or 7.
I usually take these kinds of suits with a grain of salt. I tend to side with Apple on most of them. People seem to sue Apple anytime their product is not 100% perfect 100% of the time.
That said, I think this one has some merit. I think there is a case to be made that Apple knew iOS 4 was going to cause problems for many 3G users...but they released it and recommended the upgrade anyway. Makes sense from their perspective...most of these folks are eligible for an upgrade anyway, so let's just make them/encourage them to buy new phones.
Not sure how one goes about proving this, but yeah...I think there's something to this one.
iPhone 3G is two years ago...they can't expect apple to contiunue supporting it like the 3Gs and 4
Wrong they should support it! Is your car more than 2 years old? Do you think it should be supported? Or should the auto manufacturer say you should upgrade to an newer model?
I don't really agree with the lawsuit but c'mon...Apple should support their products....2 years is NOT a long time.....
But it was this engineered "catch 22" that Apple put into motion that really woke me up and made me realized the control their devices have (or attempt to have) over it's users. It's 2 years old, so what? I like it, and don't want to buy something new right now- so F*CK you, and F*UCK apple. F*UCK itunes and how many computers I can put my music on.
But now, I'm motivated, and guess what? I don't negotiate with terrorists either. So come November 21, when the shit service contract from AT&T expires on this now VERY shitty phone, I roll into the local Sprint office and buy a new Evo. Is it a better phone? I don't give a rip- but I'm not being held hostage by a F*cking electronic devices company.
Holy crap, man, you are angry.
Apple probably didn't design iOS4 to slow down old old phones, but they probably didn't work *that* hard to avoid it. But keep in mind, people, that the iPhone 3G has a quarter of the RAM that the iPhone 4 has, and *will* act as such, even with a lot of optimizing. It's like trying to upgrade any old computer to a new OS, except phones have a far shorter life cycle than computers. But guess what? If you're going to join an Apple-related forum to write some rage-fueled post about how much you hate Apple, then when you move to the Evo, we won't miss you.
Word of advice before you go, though; if you're going to swear, inserting an asterisk in the middle of a word doesn't do a fucking thing. (see how I did that?) If you're afraid of offending someone, that is not the way to avoid it.
And by the way, as iTunes now has DRM-free music, you can indeed put your music on any computer that you want.
"Apple disallowed the downgrading of the iPhone 3G from iOS 4 back to iOS 3.x"
This is the key. Apple should lose this lawsuit because they do not allow owners to go back to a more stable OS when a bug is encountered. They either need to issue patches immediately, or let people revert to a functional OS. There is no logical excuse not to do so.
Also, there were iPhone 3G's sold literally weeks before the iOS 4 dibacle. Some of the 3G's were 2 years old, but Apple will not be well served to suggest they do not have to support a product after a few weeks of it being discontinued, when many of them were still under warranty.
#1 - it may be that it's technically not possible to downgrade and retain all user data that has been migrated to the newer versions of the various apps.
#2 - how can they "issue patches immediately"? They instead have to write and test the changes to address the issues, which is what iOS 4.1 did.
Finally, it's kind of bizarre that a class action lawsuit would be filed now when the issues have already been addressed.
multi-million
Multi-billion.
iPhone 3G is two years ago...they can't expect apple to contiunue supporting it like the 3Gs and 4
I agree, but apple shouldn't have allowed the upgrade path to 4.0 which effectively bricked my 3G. I downgraded back to 3.2 and was fine, but I am a developer and had access to the firmware. When I was testing apps on the 3G device I knew it was trouble and even filed bug reports with apple. The 3G can't multi-task anyway, the only reason to do it was the new folders feature which is nice, but not worth the dramatic decrease in performance. I hear 4.1 fixed many issues, but have not bothered to test yet. I will test 4.2 when it comes out.
exaggeration is not an effective legal strategy.
I'm not all that law-knowledgeable, but I do know that a lot of legal strategy is based on 'persuasion'. Exaggeration is part of that -- to sway a judge or jury's emotions.
This is certainly something that a consummer would stand up and protest against. Just imagine if your two year old car ended up in the shop for three months waiting for a bug fix from GM.
I'm actually surprised at all the spinless people here trying to defend Apple. How many of you would have accepted Mac OS / X going to hell after an update. We are talking to the point of barely being a usable Mac. Waiting on a show of hands................ Thought so, everyone here should expect the same quality experience from iOS as they expect from Mac OS/X. As someone else has pointed out Mac OS gets faster and more reliable with each new release. The exact opposite seems to be the case with iOS.
Like others have stated, simply waiting a few days and then checking out the forums and blog sites would have alerted them to the issue with 4.0. I still haven't upgraded my wife's 3G (she wasn't eligible for a iPhone 4 yet) and probably won't as I'll be getting her an iPhone 4 in February anyway.
The one thing Apple definitely should have done though, is provided an official way to roll back slow and buggy 3G iPhones to the previous version. But then, people wouldn't be happy sitting at 3.1.3 or whatever and just complain about why they can't upgrade to 4.0 and later. You can't make 100% of the people happy 100% of time.
when you install a new (major) version of a program or OS, doesnt Apple make you agree to not sue them for performance issues when you agree to the EULA? There are like 20 pages of fine print on those things. I would be shocked if that kind of thing wasnt in there.
I would be shocked if this kind of thing was in there and the lawyers in that class-action suit decided to proceed anyway. Damn bloodsuckers.