Sensational lawsuit accuses Apple of turning iPhone 3G into "iBrick"

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  • Reply 81 of 176
    Apple should provide a way to update to any arbitrary version. My 3G was not updated for a long time. iOS4 came out and I did not want it. But I had to go through a bunch of steps to update from 3.1x to 3.1.3 (last version before 4). It should have been an option in the iTunes iPhone window. Like "Update to iOS 4, or choose a custom update to an older version..." etc.
  • Reply 82 of 176
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,158member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post


    Look... I'm not claiming Apple is guilty of anything. The lawsuit, I believe, is that Apple purposely crippled the 3G, after claiming it was supported with the new OS release, to force users to purchase a new iPhone by making the 3G virtually useless. That's the lawsuit. I'm simply arguing that they may have merit, and you need to let the evidence be brought forth and presented before passing judgment. Too many of you people are fanatical and Apple simply can't do any wrong. You're no better than the Microsoft zealots that defend them.



    I know what the lawsuit is about.. I've read the article. Beside, I am not defending Apple. I am pointing out that the claim that Apple crippled 3G with iOS 4.0 update to force people to buy iPhone 4 is BS.

    I mean think about it. The problem lasted two months during which the iPhone 4 was sold out. If Apple wanted to sell more iPhone 4s then they would have waited until the iPhone 4 demand slowed and pushed an update that crippled the 3G and maybe the 3GS.
  • Reply 83 of 176
    In the old days, we bought a product, hoped it worked well and recommended it (or not) to all our friends or family. A company's success was based upon just that.



    Today, we sue the livin' crap out of anything that doesn't make us happy.
  • Reply 84 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Out of curiosity, has MS ever been sued for selling a new version of Windows that was deemed ?acceptable? by the HCL and spec sheet, but subsequently made it run slower than the previous version of Windows? For instance, everyone that upgraded from WinXP to Vista?



    if the answer were Yes, what difference would that make?



    And if the answer is no?



    I don't understand the importance of that information.
  • Reply 85 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tcphoto View Post


    My Verizon contract expired in November of '09 and I came back to AT&T only because of the iphone. I read the early reviews of OS4 and it sounded like I would not get folders and a couple other features. I installed the update and was amazed by the lag in starting apps and using the keyboard, especially in texting. Then Jobs commented on how slow the 3G was in testing... How about supporting a device at least while it's under warranty? According to AT&T, I am eligible for an upgrade in June of 2011. The only way that I will spend my money with Apple and AT&T is if they address this problem directly or Sprint may be my way of protesting. I have been an Apple computer user since 1993 and I love their products but this felt rather malicious on their part.



    I sympathize, but if your goal is to remediate their behavior (which I don't believe it intentional, but that's a different post), then taking your business to Sprint or Verizon may make you feel better, but it won't change Apple's behavior, because they've already made their money when you bought the iPhone 3G. The effort to make the new iOS work on the iPhone 3G represents a negative return on their investment: it won't help them sell more iPhone 3G handsets. Not buying an iPhone 4 won't make that fact any less of a fact.
  • Reply 86 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    If by obsolete you mean its production, then why do you expect ever CE you own to be produced for at least 3 years from the time you buy it?



    How could he possibly mean that? It would make no sense at all to use the word in such a manner.
  • Reply 87 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    So you?re claiming that Apple purposely wrote iOS 4.0 for the iPhone 3G to cripple a portion (but not all) of the devices.



    Reread the story. It is not his claim; it is the claim made by the plaintiff. Just saying.
  • Reply 88 of 176
    Did anyone actually read the law suit?



    I think a lot of you are being misled as to the intent of the lawsuit. The lawsuit is explaining that Apple misled users into believing that iOS 4.0 was going to enhance the 3G when in fact it didn't (according to the lawsuit, aka false advertising). This goes further and says Apple didn't provide a way to downgrade to other OS's without resorting to ways that will break the end user contract and thus break warranty for their iPhone. Because of those two things, the lawsuit is claiming that Apple intended it this way to have customers buy newer devices.



    Personally I think the first point of false advertising is, well, false. Second point of not having a way to revert back is a good point showing that you're pretty much stuck with the upgrade if you still want your warranty. Third point is completely BS.



    For those saying "its a 2 year old device get over it", does that mean that the 3-year Apple Care I bought is useless after 2 years?



    Apple shouldn't have given 3G iPhones the chance to upgrade to 4.0, but they should still support security patches for it...
  • Reply 89 of 176
    paul94544paul94544 Posts: 1,027member
    I upgraded my 3G to iOS4 and it was almost completely unusable for almost 2 months, text entry was really slow, google maps unusable even now it is still slow and I have to re-boot it constantly to get the maps features to work especially the route finder.



    I am totaly dissatisfied with Apple waxing about how great iOS 4 is and prompting and urging me to upgrade and if there testing did know this makes me really really mad. Perhaps the marketing juggernaut at Apple glossed over the engineers - who knows? but that is a sad indictment if it is true.



    All these totally invalid arguments that its old hardware are totally of the mark because its not like I could get out of my 2 year contract without suffering a financial penalty. Apple should have only let 3GS user uppgrade, then this lawsuit wouldn't be needed



    I for one am hoping for some $ retribution caused by this terrible upgrade. I can't tell you the untold number of times I needed to find an address or check for traffic congestion and was unable to because of the disasterous upgrade.



    They dropped the ball on this one. I for one will never again upgrade immediately because I don't trust them any more. Fool me once... fool me twice...
  • Reply 90 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Out of curiosity, has MS ever been sued for selling a new version of Windows that was deemed ?acceptable? by the HCL and spec sheet, but subsequently made it run slower than the previous version of Windows? For instance, everyone that upgraded from WinXP to Vista?



    Not going to argue the slower vs faster argument, but will say that users were allowed to "downgrade" to Win XP without breaking any contracts...
  • Reply 91 of 176
    29922992 Posts: 202member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    [...]The 'bug' in this case is that Apple made two bad assumptions. The first was that 3g owners would upgrade their hardware. I mean why wouldn't you. The 4 is so much better than the 3g. The second assumption is that folks wouldn't upgrade their software because they would be smart enough to want to avoid any potential issues. [...]



    Why wouldn't I?! Because my iPhone3G (hardware wise) works perfectly, and I am not planning to change it as long as it's a working piece of hardware.

    I'll expect the manufacturer of my phone to either leave my phone working as advertised (that is, not to update the software to a version which doesn't work properly), or to take care of it and make sure if they will release a new software for to give me more features, that version will work at least as good as the old one, if not better.

    All in all, I agree with the lawsuit as long as Apple will not do something about my dog lazy iOS4 in top of my ~2 years old iPhone3G.



    Apple, how about an easy way to go back to iOS3?
  • Reply 92 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    This claim is BS.



    Based on that logic one can argue that MS crippled Vista because they wanted people to pay for the next Windows OS (Windows 7)




    But is that a true claim? Obviously, the structure of the reasoning of your claim is similar to that of the lawsuit.



    But the structure of the reasoning has nothing to do with the truth or falsity of the two claims. Without adequate evidence, the lawsuit will fail. My guess is that they have something to hang their hat on.
  • Reply 93 of 176
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FurbiesAndBeans View Post


    Not going to argue the slower vs faster argument, but will say that users were allowed to "downgrade" to Win XP without breaking any contracts...



    I wholeheartedly agree that Apple should allow some downgrade of iOS if a version isn?t working out, but these users could have gotten a phone that worked simply by taking their complaint to someone that could help them. I can?t feel sorry for people that chose to complain on the internet instead of getting Apple to get them a new phone after this happened.



    PS: Doesn?t MS charge for a downgrade option to XP from Windows 7? Imagine if Apple charged for that option.
  • Reply 94 of 176
    I would be suprised if someone had an IPHONE 3G which was 'turned into a brick' after updating to IOS 4 that took their phone into an Apple store and it either wasn't fixed or replaced. Yes the warranty may have run out, however if Apple knows that their software is buggy they are sympathetic to all that are affected.
  • Reply 95 of 176
    ruel24ruel24 Posts: 432member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ruel24


    No, I mean support: replacement parts (I believe 5 years is law), software support, etc.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Oh yeah?! Prove it! Prove that Apple is required to offer rich updates to their devices for 5 years. I think you have misunderstood what “support” means just as you’ve misunderstood what “obsolete” means.



    Now I'm convinced that you have serious reading comprehension deficiencies... Where on Earth did I ever say the Apple was required to make software upgrades for 5 years? I said I believe they're required to make replacement parts for 5 years under law, and I did not state this as absolute fact. Someone else who posted here said the same thing about replacement parts:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post


    Consumer laws (at least in California) require a manufacturer to provide replacement parts and other support for five years after a product has been discontinued, IIRC.



    Seriously, dude... Go back to grammar school and learn to make sense of what you're reading, and stop trying to imply people are saying things they aren't. You sound like a politician...
  • Reply 96 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Except that your second assumption isn't valid since Apple said iOS 4 was compatible with the 3G. They went further and explained that some functionality wouldn't be available (mutitasking, background pictures) because the hardware was constrained. This would mean, to any reasonable person, that Apple expected 3G users to update to iOS 4.



    Everyone always says Apple's experience is superior because they control it top to bottom. Since the control the hardware and the software, they are the only source to rely on for compatibility. You can insult people all you like for having upgraded, but all they did was trust Apple.



    I don't think the plaintiffs have a hope of winning the lawsuit, but Apple isn't completely blameless either as you point out.



    I think Apple could cover off any problems of this type if they just provided an authorised method of downgrading an iOS device to a previous software version. I'm not sure they would do it as it makes them look bad and they probably want to cling to the belief that they can do no wrong, but it would be a fairly easy and sensible thing to do IMO.
  • Reply 97 of 176
    A few salient points:



    1) As has been pointed out numerous times (and ignored by many in the Kool-Aid crowd) the 3G was sold right up until June of this year. That means it is a current phone, not a two year old obsolete phone.

    2) Do I think Apple deliberately tried to brick the 3G, no of course not. I had one and when I upgraded to iOS4 it became very slow and unpleasant to use.

    3) Is Apple obligated to provide new OS's for older devices (or indeed any devices), of course not. They could have released iOS 4 for only the iPhone 4. However, if they do release an OS for a device, they are obligated to make sure it works properly before releasing it and telling people they can upgrade. Here, they dropped the ball and should be held accountable for it.

    4) Given the number of issues with this whole release (hardware and software), while relatively small as a whole, they do seem to have been much larger than Apple's normal set of problems. I do think it a fair topic of discussion whether Apple's growth has led to a decline in quality control. Also relevant is whether their paranoia for secrecy prevents full testing, as in the antenna issue, which likely wasn't discovered so soon due to them all being in disguise cases.
  • Reply 98 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I wholeheartedly agree that Apple should allow some downgrade of iOS if a version isn?t working out, but these users could have gotten a phone that worked simply by taking their complaint to someone that could help them. I can?t feel sorry for people that chose to complain on the internet instead of getting Apple to get them a new phone after this happened.



    PS: Doesn?t MS charge for a downgrade option to XP from Windows 7? Imagine if Apple charged for that option.



    To technically downgrade from Windows 7 to XP you would have had to upgrade from XP to Windows 7
  • Reply 99 of 176
    matrix07matrix07 Posts: 1,993member
    Apple definitely should have let user easily downgrade OS. There's no excuse for that. Some people here wondered why Microsoft never get sued in such a case. Well for one thing Microsoft didn't sell PC so no motivation there. And another thing is you can downgrade easily. If you don't like Vista just pop in your XP disc. If you don't like Service Pack 2 just go to Control Panel and downgrade to any version of the same OS you had before.

    There, you got your answer.
  • Reply 100 of 176
    ruel24ruel24 Posts: 432member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MuncyWeb View Post


    In the old days, we bought a product, hoped it worked well and recommended it (or not) to all our friends or family. A company's success was based upon just that.



    Today, we sue the livin' crap out of anything that doesn't make us happy.



    In the old days, there wasn't a rush to push new products out. The Apple IIe reigned supreme for quite a long time. The original IBM PC had a long life span. That's not the case with the smartphone market.
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