HTC, Samsung also take issue with Apple's antenna claims - Page 3

You know....I just don't understand all of this fuss. People have been having problems with cell phone reception for as long as I can remember but never have they been so aggressive to a manufacturer. Before if a call dropped you would look at the phone, cuss the provider and then make another call.

It makes me wonder if Apple in now moving into the realm of Microsoft where because the company is so large and popular that they are scrutinized beyond belief and punished for a problem that has always been around?

I know I will probably get flak for this but I think its time the media just let this go now and lets move on. The phone works, reception is bad in low reception areas, a case helps reception and because of the stink made in the media and a handful of users Apple is giving away cases now. Problem solved until the phone is updated again.

Just my 2 cents.

You're still going on about this as though the bars were previously analogous to signal strength, and as though they haven't changed that, so it's now obvious what the real situation really is. At this point, one can only conclude that you are willfully misrepresenting the facts.

How can you demand evidence from people right after saying something that has not a shred of evidence to back it up?

You say other phones drop your call if you don't do anything. Literally, you have the phone sitting on your desk with speaker phone on with full service, and the call it dropped. Please show us videos of this, because THAT sounds like a major issue.

At least with the iphone, it was obvious how the signal was being dropped and that's why I say I'd just get a case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7tfH9oBQbk < This was pre 4.01. I don't know if he has a followup vid, but this was the phone Apple released to the public, and this guy is the kind of person who's been loudest in this discussion. The examples of attenuation posted always has someone holding a phone oddly, and tightly.

No it's a price point issue, Apple's overall computer market share is relatively modest.

Before you had to pay a minimum of a grand for an Apple device, kept a lot of the jokers at bay. Now that $80 and up gets you into an Apple, every greasy freak without a summer job fancies himself not just a Mac expert, but master of all technologies. I think you'd find an abnormally high number of Batman branded items around these people. No specific offense intended towards Batman or other imaginary characters that dorks lust over.

Right, I haven't mentioned once how the 4.01 update changes how the bars are shown.

What discussion are you part of?

Here's the improvement btw: (look at around 1:45) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNIbz_jC2k8 He's got a bumper on it, but he's also using death grip

I've been called worse and I do appreciate your brevity.


The individual making those comments was the one who used words like "burden" to describe his Apple experience. C'mon his post was full of inaccuracies and exaggerations. First post? They came to an Apple forum to say they were leaving Apple ? That behavior resembles a stalker.


Yeah, I was being loud, but I had to get it out.I'm really annoyed that as it turned out the IP4 problem seems to be minor, blown way out of proportion and a huge waste of time. Back in the real world...

BP finally caps the well and discovers a leak
china seals oil port after spill
Sixty killed as trains collide in India
China on track to aim 2,000 missiles at Taiwan

This story should not have been the media frenzy it was. Every news channel, newspaper and blogger was using the sensationalist exaggerations to catch the attention of the lowest common denominator and make money.


Did I ever attack the poster? Here's the only line in question...

"Awwwwww. Need a tissue? So glad the great burden of owning Apple products has been lifted off your back. Enjoy your delusional fantasy, er uh I mean unburdened escape from the clutches if the Evil Empire into the soft delicate hands of droid bliss. "

I thought it was more... sarcastic to be honest. Even funny if you agreed. I think allot of us are feeling it. "Ohhh boo hoo my phone doesn't work". So take the fracking thing back. Done. If my response was reproachable, well.... Frack It. That's what I felt like saying and I didn't mean to attack anyone, just make a case for how silly this whole story is with a little sarcasm. I never said, you are an idiot, you are flat out wrong or I'm going to beat you up. Don't be so sensitive. Maybe you are the one in need of a tissue. I guess it was the delusional part. :/

It's a rhetorical device to point out that people making false claims are basing them on nothing.

other phones have this issue too. period.

The discussion where you are pretending that the original bar display was the true indicator of what was going on relative to signal strength changes.

Really?
I can make and recieve calls with it no matter where I am or how I hold the phone. BTW.....I had both phones for a while the iphone 4G and the EVO. I tested both phones making and recieving calls. The 4G would drop calls when the EVO would not. I have had the EVO for 3 weeks now and have not had one drop call or signal loss issue. But that is just my real world side by side experience.

With friends like this, who needs enemies...

The iPhone 4 antenna is great. That's the irony of this whole thing. Reception in weak areas is far better than previous versions.
What's particularly ironic is that the argument given by Apple haters is generally that "we geeks are really smart, and don't need Apple being nanny to us."
Yet when Apple essentially puts a big 'X' on the one spot that might cause problems when bridged, these folks don't seem to be smart or energetic enough to move their pinky a millimeter.
These folks DO need a nanny.

All engineering is about trade-offs. My only criticism of Jobs' Friday appearance was that he didn't acknowledge this.

For me (and apparently for the vast majority of iPhone 4 owners) this trade-off was WELL worth it.

Oh ok, 4.01 solved the issue. End of discussion, right?

Well I'm sorry, I simply can't believe it. Clearly I have to believe anonymouse when he says there is no issue, and anyone who had an issue only had one because it was pre 4.01.

You're a liar!


(just kidding )

Yes, because it was a false issue to begin with, so it should be the end of discussion that attempts to confuse the issue using the original signal bar as any part of the argument, and the real data should be the end of the discussion for any rational person. But we all know that a) not everyone is rational, and b) that there are interested parties who wish to pretend that it isn't the end of the discussion.

Apple released the iPhone 4 with a software bug, actually started with the original iPhone. Apple fixed the bug within 3 weeks. Are you going to tell me that you never in your life bought a product or a software with a bug?! Get over it.

This is getting really stupid. The same argument from the same people over and over again. On Friday a thread with the same issue reached more than 500 posts. Everything being said here was said there by the same people.

I can't reproduce the bar drop with MY IP4 I've had for a week with a full "Death Grip"! So what's your point?

No, you reject it as irrelevant because the iP4 and EVO don't use the same network, so any comparisons made regarding dropped calls at specific locations aren't valid.

I mean, this isn't even a difficult one to figure out.

Actually your comment is worth considerably more than 2 cents. I agree completely with your statement but it lacks any controversial allegations or personal attacks so it will likely be disregarded.

Right. Pointing at other smartphones in the Press Release is NOT pointing fingers, it is just identifying them.

Consumer Reports has no credibility whatsoever. Never did.

Why didn't you believe the data? It looked totally solid to me. Steve absolutely demolished each and every objection that the Bloggers manufactured.

What kind of a world do we live in where the maker of the best phone on earth, bar none, has to publicly refute lies about his product? It is a very sad situation.

All those Bloggers and RumorMongers should be ashamed of themselves. Every single one.

you're right, it's not a difficult one to figure out, that's why he's staying with his Evo

nice one

You make a very good point about the different networks. Now what about the way I held it? What about hold the 4G and the 3G side by side and having the call drop on the 4G but not the 3G? I could watch the signal bars go from full signal and drop down to no service.
Again guys...I am not bashing Apple here I buy Apple products because they great products. I just bought a new MBP with the i7 prcessor and it is so blazing fast!
I have 2 iMacs and iPad a Macbook and a 3G iPhone in my house right now......
So it not like I am trying to just stir things up or put Apple down.
I am not. But everything I have written about MY experiences with the 4G is true.......

I guess not. He should just use a Bumper. Problem solved. And they are free.

These Whiners will NEVER be happy!

Well I'm not making this out to be anything more than it is. In fact, I feel like I'm being more than reasonable, accepting the fact that attenuation occurs in all phones in one form or another, but given that it's a bit more exaggerated with the ip4, a case or a bumper is enough to squash the problem and keep it one of the best possible phones to get.

First and foremost on selecting a smartphone you are happy with. Run with it. The rest however reamins to be seen as to whether open source can produce a viable commercially successful platform without a corporate sponsor like Google supporting it. I have not yet seen anything truly compelling in the Android Marketplace - a few nice apps pop up from time to time but nothing truly ground-breaking. Second, Apple seldom - if ever, brings an unfinished product, especially the class of the iPhone, to the market. Now it may not have all the bells and whistles that every bloghound or erstatz pundit thinks it should have, but that is largely beside the point. Jobs is on record as killing all kinds of projects for not being ready for the marketplace - so I would hazard that your comment is not reflective of reality. When in doubt, apply standard logic to the situation - where you said:

for example, R&D obviously didn't miss on the antenna system - it is, by all reports a BETTER antenna system (better reception, fewer dropped calls), and in personal use I have in fact found these claims to be true. It has given me better signal capture and fewer dropped calls than my previous 1st gen iPhone. I also have not seen the "bars" issue that has been widely reported on my iPhone 4.

Finally, this:

is quite wrong. The generally acknowledged first rule of marketing is "know your audience".

The proliferation of videos on Youtube demonstrating clearly that smartphones/cellphones all experience this same attentuation, and calls into question whether cellphone makers have basically made a deal with the devil where antenna performance is concerned, since users want smaller and smaller devices that look slick and cool, and that heads in the direction opposite of effective antenna performance. One of the things that I tend to struggle with in these threads are all the armchair experts who know exactly what Apple did wrong, or what they should have done, or what Steve Jobs should have said, and yet none of which are apparently heads of their own multi-billion dollar electronics companies delivering cutting edge devices. Opinions are cheap when you have nothing on the line.

Again, I strongly commend you for selecting a cellphone that works best for you - that is exactly the correct and laudable informed consumer behavior that should drive everyone's mindset. Were more engaged in that activity and mindset we might, just might have fewer nonsensical contributors in these threads. But then the universe seems to produce idiocy and stupidity at a very high rate, so perhaps I hope in vain.

According to all of the manufacturers who actually include a diagram in their user manual, telling us where not to touch their phone, I'd have to say yes ... you are 100% correct .... finally!

There you go again. It's only "more exaggerated" when measured using the old signal bar display, in which case, more exaggerated, by the bar display, is the correct description.

1. Your confusing terminology makes it difficult to know what you are even saying. 4G would seem to refer to the EVO. 3G to an iPhone that's 2 years-old.

2. If you made an iP4 drop from full signal to no signal, then you are using an iP4 with the old signal bar display algorithm, which we all know misrepresents the issue.

3. You still can't compare 2 phones on different networks and how they handle signal, unless you have an independent, accurate measurement of that signal, which you do not.

I think if Apple had handled this better (don't hold it that way-silence-all phones do this) there wouldn't be anywhere near the fuss. All those responses were as if from a 5th grader (and not the smarter one), major marketing no-no's.

As to the media - I'm sure no one "blames the media" for criticisms or bad press about Microsoft, just a matter of whose ox is being gored. Look, Apple is no longer the darling rebel, the little upstart fighting against the establishment. Apple is a part of the establishment and isn't being treated with kid gloves and adulation no matter what they do (except from the most strident of supporters). All companies are fallible.

No, this would be like competitors saying, "Pizza Hut tastes like crap because they use pizza dough which loses its flavor and soft texture once its left on the countertop for too long"... and then Pizza Hut saying hey wait a minute, ALL pizza is subject to the exact same effect, it's physics, there isn't anything particularly "wrong" with ANY of these pizzas... which was the classy way Apple did it.

The general assumption among the usual suspects (cellphone makers) seems to be - as long as it is "good enough" then we're fine. They successfully lowered the expectations bar for the average consumer for a long time when it came to cellphones. I wonder how many people never realized that their call dropped because they were holding the phone wrong in a weak signal area, for example. And who in world ever thought that any of the feature phone or early smartphone UIs were user friendly?

It was only when Apple brought the iPhone to market against all the nay-saying by the cell makers and demonstrated their success in a highly competitive way, that Google switched to mimicking the Iphone touch interface, that the touch interface in general took off as the expected UI for a successful cellphone/smartphone. And now every single cell maker has to have a touch UI to compete. Talk about upsetting the entrenched system, or more importantly disrupting it.

When we type we use ten fingers and each on of them goes to one key and only one, we repeat this movement choosing one key over 40 characters at an amazing speed, we do that forming words and sentences with meaning. the sequencing is just amazing. We do all of that without looking at the keyboard or even thinking what we are doing. And people at this forum are saying that they cannot hold the weight of a little slab next to their ear without touching a marked spot?

It's much easier to move a single finger than to readjust your entire grip. In the videos Steve Jobs showed, it was a normal hand GRIP that caused the signal drop with the other phones. If all one has to do is move a single finger from a very obvious spot, then this is better than rearranging one's entire grip on the other phones.

Pay no attention to him. He's a troll that has been banned multiple times. This is his persona where he pretends to be an overly-gushing Apple fan.

You're kidding right? I've been with AT&T since 94, and I know of several people including myself who has had issues with their GSM coverage at least 7 years before the iPhone ever existed. AT&T has been mocked by having bad coverage waaay before the iPhone. Why do you think Verizon came out with the "Can you hear me now?" guy? It was a slam on Sprint and AT&T who they claim don't do enough to help keep their network running smooth. They (AT&T) have always oversold the network in capacity and say in fine print that they don't guarantee access.

Back in 99 it was so bad that my bill showed in one day over 10 calls that had dropped and then reconnected and good old AT&T said that they weren't going to charge me for those calls. Gee aren't they swell??

Don't believe me? Just look at AT&T's site. Just look at the reviews for their phones.

You are missing the whole point and context. I tested 3 phones iPhone 3G and iPhone 4G (the new one!) and the EVO. Only the new iPhone 4G would drop calls. It did not matter how many bars were displayed. It did not matter if it was in an weak signal area or not. The iPhone 3G could make calls using the same network and same location while the iPhone 4G would drop calls when HELD the way I normally hold all my phones. I could hold all 3 phones the same way and ONLY the new iPhone 4G would lose signal and then drop calls. It did this with a full signal and of course when it had a weak signal. BUT is was the ONLY phone to do this. I hope that clarifies it for you......

Apparently we SHOULD have to hold ALL phones in a certain way in order to use any of them. It's written right into the manuals of virtually every cell phone out there. And according to the FCC and others, it's best to keep the antenna as far away from your skull as possible, too.

It's not absurd at all. The real bottom line is, the cell makers are getting called out on something they were hoping the average consumer would just ignore. They are concerned now because Apple, not being part of the "old boys network" of cell makers (who have agreed amongst themselves to not draw attention to the attenuation issue), being the disruptive "new kid on the block", has called them out when they thought it was safe to let Apple hang for a common issue. And they had a vested interest to do so - Apple came into their sandbox with a new toy that made theirs look dumb, and became very popular. So much so they all felt they had to produce lookalike touch phones to compete with the very company they said would fail miserably. And didn't.

Moreover, Jobs in his addressing of the issue was fairly explicit that Apple would resolve any real issues via replacement, or refund within 30 days. So no consumer has to tolerate an iPhone that doesn't perform to expectation. So, for example if the antenna performance is not what you require - you either get it replaced (after which your return window is advanced ANOTHER 30 days btw), or you get a refund and go get another cellphone, like geekdad and northern did. They seem to be happy, and I don't see Steve Jobs hiding around the corner to go "neener-neener" at them for doing so - do you?

Personally I would have preferred that the iPhone was actually list price of $700 +/-. But the general population is bad with math. They would rather have subsidized plan where the entry price is low and you pay a premium for the service. Although the difference is minimal, many people would keep their phone longer than the contract since there would be no penalty to do so. Only the super-geeks need to upgrade every year. So the subsidy works out well for Apple too I guess, with the possible exception of a lot of whining.