or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple's Steve Jobs slams Google, RIM, and rival tablet makers on conference call
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple's Steve Jobs slams Google, RIM, and rival tablet makers on conference call - Page 2

post #41 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

His comments are even more applicable to a 3.2 inch screen than a 7 inch screen. That is the point he wishes people would overlook.

Except that they don't sell apps like iWork for the iPod touch. The iPad is a viable general purpose computer. The iPhone and touch are not.
post #42 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOEW View Post

Samsung makes their "A4". I don't think you knew that.

They should aim to make a product with it that generates as much profit as Apple's products, don't you think?
"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
Reply
"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
Reply
post #43 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

His comments are even more applicable to a 3.2 inch screen than a 7 inch screen. That is the point he wishes people would overlook.

He was very careful to talk about "tablet apps" rather than "touch apps". He's saying that a tablet is a device that you can realistically work on for an extended period of time and to do more "serious" work, and for that you need at least a 10" screen.
it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
Reply
it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
Reply
post #44 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

What you see as bitching, I see as setting the record straight. If he doesn't do that, who is going to ... you? .... not bloody likely!

Well said!
post #45 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by nonarKitten View Post

Since when are Americans the whole bloody world? World-wide, Apple's at best (considering the latest info) 5th in terms of profit and 65th in terms of revenue. A good "Job" all-in-all, but let's not exaggerate.

But the second largest in the whole great big world in Market cap.. (You know the value of a publicly traded company). It is currently 290.51B.

Latest info from Yahoo (unless you believe TBH is really is valued at 6.4T instead of the 6.4B it really is)

Symbol\tCompany\t Retail Price\tMarket Cap \t
XOM\tExxon Mobil Corporation Common\t 65.19\t 331.94B\t
AAPL\tApple Inc.\t 314.74\t 287.54B\t
PTR\t PetroChina Company Limited Com 128.86\t 235.84B\t

No one is exaggerating, you just did not understand the discussion.
post #46 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

Yep. My thoughts exactly. He was saying that the iPod Touch is too small to use well. But he didn't realize it? His comments seem ill-advised and unscripted.

Um. It's obvious that he meant *tablet* apps (i.e. those intended for the *iPad*, not iPhone) would be too small on a screen with 45% less area, and that he didn't think developers would be keen on having to make a special 7" version too. Are you guys just being intentionally dense here, or what?
post #47 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtdunham View Post

I agree. I thought it was embarrassing. I've always admired people who build themselves up by doing well, not by tearing others down. It seemed unnecessary and uncharacteristic, like a teenager awkwardly telling the girl he wants to like him what's wrong with all the other boys in the class.

I think some observers are gonna wonder what's going on with him. Maybe I've got it wrong.

Yes, you've got it wrong... There is nothing embarrassing about setting the record straight.
post #48 of 181
Quote:
We create our own A4 chip, software, battery chemistry, enclosure, everything.

OK - I knew about all of these except for the battery chemistry. Does anyone know where I can find out more about this? I had assumed Apple was getting custom form factor batteries, but was surprised to hear they're customizing the chemistry.
post #49 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Agreed. Steve sets the record straight and presents a coherent and proven vision.

Good call! Imagine if all CEO's talked this concisely! I personally find it refreshing!
post #50 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBookAir View Post

Um. It's obvious that he meant *tablet* apps (i.e. those intended for the *iPad*, not iPhone) would be too small on a screen with 45% less area, and that he didn't think developers would be keen on having to make a special 7" version too. Are you guys just being intentionally dense here, or what?

Wouldn't be the first time...
post #51 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOEW View Post

Samsung makes their "A4". I don't think you knew that.

Jobs becoming vocal like this only proves that he's VERY worried about other competition. To use words like "fragmentation" over and over again makes me laugh at him, when developers in his marketplace are already fragmented and frustrated.

Jobs v2.0 will be on his way out again soon. At this rate, it shouldn't take very long.

I know very well that Samsung makes the A4, flash memory chips and a lot of the displays for Apple.

Ummm... Jobs "v2.0" will be out again soon? Man, talk about not having a clue...
post #52 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Yeah.. I am starting to see this nano watch everywhere. Maybe Apple can bring back the wrist watch to life.

I'm sad because I just got a new watch a couple of months ago
I would totally do this.
post #53 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by nonarKitten View Post

Since when are Americans the whole bloody world?

What does this have to do with anything?
Quote:
World-wide, Apple's at best (considering the latest info) 5th in terms of profit and 65th in terms of revenue.

and only second in world-wide in market value (outstanding shares times current share price) behind Exxon.
-> Apple poised to become largest public company in America
Quote:
A good "Job" all-in-all, but let's not exaggerate.

No exaggeration at all.
post #54 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by sippincider View Post

...which is becoming a double-edged sword.

There truly is an app for that, and it's becoming very, very difficult to get noticed. You have to be exceptionally good if you want any share of the app market today.
Which may be great for the consumers and the platform, but I see the wheat separating from the chaff (i.e. the also-ran apps dropping out) in the not too distant future.


As Martha would say: .... and that's a good thing!
Apple, bigger than Google, ..... bigger than Microsoft,   The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.
Reply
Apple, bigger than Google, ..... bigger than Microsoft,   The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.
Reply
post #55 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOEW View Post

Samsung makes their "A4". I don't think you knew that.

Jobs becoming vocal like this only proves that he's VERY worried about other competition. To use words like "fragmentation" over and over again makes me laugh at him, when developers in his marketplace are already fragmented and frustrated.

Jobs v2.0 will be on his way out again soon. At this rate, it shouldn't take very long.

Yes, the company isn't turning any profit. I bet they get rid of him tomorrow!
post #56 of 181
removed unnecessary comment

sweet revenge eh, mr.h
Apple, bigger than Google, ..... bigger than Microsoft,   The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.
Reply
Apple, bigger than Google, ..... bigger than Microsoft,   The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.
Reply
post #57 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Developers don't have to worry about multitasking. The OS take care of everything.

Actually developers do have to worry about how to incorporate the iOS4 multitasking features such as alarm notification and sound control, etc. The IOS takes care of it, but there is a new methods to deal with it. Any code you compile that deals with the newer multitasking features will not work on 3.2 or smaller, so it behooves to developer to test on iPhone4, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 3G, iPhone (perhaps), and iPad.

Quote:
Developers can compile their apps to run on any version they want, including iPhone OS 3.0. Apple made it real easy for developers to identify the device and features. A good developer won't have any problem in that area.

Yes this is true and a point i should have clarified. Developers can currently compile to 3.2 (current iPad), but multi-tasking features are not currently allowed on 3.2 devices, among other things like game kit, iAd, etc. so again, you have to use all these devices to test and make sure it all works, which i believe was the original posters point.
post #58 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Yeah.. I am starting to see this nano watch everywhere. Maybe Apple can bring back the wrist watch to life.

Yeah, awhile back Woz had some real cool sunglasses:

Sorry, this is the best picture I could find:



If you look closely, you can see that the lenses are the colors and shape of the original striped Apple logol

.
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #59 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Yeah, awhile back Woz had some real cool sunglasses:

Sorry, this is the best picture I could find:


If you look closely, you can see that the lenses are the colors and shape of the original striped Apple logol

.

Elton John would look good in those glasses.
post #60 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

As Martha would say: .... and that's a good thing!

At least until developers are forced to take a hard look at overcrowding & saturation on the App Store versus fragmentation on Android.
post #61 of 181
Why o Why would S. Jobs have to show up for the conference call?

Apple needed the best curve ball pitcher in history. Everybody lining up to take a swing at the 7" iPad's future might just trip up one of his setup guys. Jobs could just keep pitching his best curve balls and debunking the myth of the super hitters RIMM and GOOGLE.

That way when the Cupertino Apple come up with their version of the 7", people will be smitten with it. Then they will realize that the curve ball was coming at them at the speed of a fast ball. No surprise that they still couldn't hit it.
post #62 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by sippincider View Post

At least until developers are forced to take a hard look at overcrowding on the App Store versus fragmentation on Android.

The internet has millions of websites .... does that keep people off the net? Quality app developers will go where the "foot traffic" goes. I can only see the overall quality of the app store getting better and better .... just like the web experience of the last several years.
Apple, bigger than Google, ..... bigger than Microsoft,   The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.
Reply
Apple, bigger than Google, ..... bigger than Microsoft,   The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.
Reply
post #63 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Developers don't have to worry about multitasking. The OS take care of everything.

Almost true -- except you have to save state differently (different callback) when an app is suspended.

Quote:
Developers can compile their apps to run on any version they want, including iPhone OS 3.0. Apple made it real easy for developers to identify the device and features. A good developer won't have any problem in that area.

Good points -- the toughest recent changes have been for iAd and and media player(s) -- there weren't any good examples and some commonly used functions were deprecated which broke applications.

But, once you understand the new SDK it is quite easy to support back iOS versions.

It's all coming together nicely with the iOS 4.2 beta.

.
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #64 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by nonarKitten View Post

Since when are Americans the whole bloody world? World-wide, Apple's at best (considering the latest info) 5th in terms of profit and 65th in terms of revenue. A good "Job" all-in-all, but let's not exaggerate.

2nd in terms of market cap!

.
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #65 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

Actually developers do have to worry about how to incorporate the iOS4 multitasking features such as alarm notification and sound control, etc. The IOS takes care of it, but there is a new methods to deal with it. Any code you compile that deals with the newer multitasking features will not work on 3.2 or smaller, so it behooves to developer to test on iPhone4, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 3G, iPhone (perhaps), and iPad.

Yes this is true and a point i should have clarified. Developers can currently compile to 3.2 (current iPad), but multi-tasking features are not currently allowed on 3.2 devices, among other things like game kit, iAd, etc. so again, you have to use all these devices to test and make sure it all works, which i believe was the original posters point.

Multitasking either works or not depending on the device and iOS version. When it comes to multitasking developers don't have to worry about the device.


Good programmers always test their apps against all possible configurations. With iOS developers have to worry about this once a year but with Android developers have to worry about it with every new Android phone.
post #66 of 181
Quote:
Q: Where is your primary advantage in tablets?
A: Jobs: We've designed everything from batteries to enclosures, and we've learned a lot from our prior experience. We know how to design and build in an efficient way. Others will have to source components from middlemen, while we design our own and build them directly.

- End of call

Brilliant!!!
post #67 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel001 View Post

Steve, you're running the second largest company in the world, you really don't need to bitch like this.

You have to be kidding. This coming from one of the most bitchers in this forum.
post #68 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Good programmers always test their apps against all possible configurations. With iOS developers have to worry about this once a year but with Android developers have to worry about it with every new Android phone.

Couldn't agree more. The issues of OEM's taking the android OS and doing their own proprietary "thing" with it will also create trouble for developers, and perhaps will hurt the Android system in the long term.

All the separate app stores will create unnecessary confusion. That decision will bite Google in the future.
post #69 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by iDave View Post

"Jobs then quipped that small form-factor tablets will need to ship with sandpaper so users can file down their fingers to the point where they can hit smaller targets on the screen. Elements can only get so small before users can't perform these types of touch and pinch gestures, Jobs insisted."

I had that problem with my iPod touch and quit using it after a month or so. Seems like a weird thing for Jobs to say.

I think it was pretty clear that the analogy is about tablets. When you bought the touch, did you think you were buying a 'small tablet'?
post #70 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

They should aim to make a product with it that generates as much profit as Apple's products, don't you think?

The A4 is actually the S5 with reduced complexity and price. The S5 basically had a bunch of shit that Apple didn't need.

I guess Samsung could copy what Apple did, but I think that leaves them open to lawsuits. I'm not sure what privileges Samsung has with the A4.

Samsung put a cortex-A8 in their galaxy S phone which sold 5 million units. It's a great chip in a great phone. The downside with the galaxy S, however, is Samsung went with a bad file system (not one of the best ones to use in Linux) so you'll see lag every once in a while, especially when pulling up information. People have already figured out a fix, but this is one of those situations where most people won't get on their computer and research this and do what's necessary.

Either way, it's looking like Samsung WILL be giving us some decent stuff in the future.
post #71 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Almost true -- except you have to save state differently (different callback) when an app is suspended.

It depends on what the app need to do in the background. Xcode cannot read developers minds. The developer have to tell the app what to do when it goes to the back ground and what to do when the app becomes active. However, if there are no special background processes then the developer don't have anything to worry about it since iOS it self implement the save state feature (AKA fast app switching).

Multitasking and background processes are device independent. Meaning they work exactly the same on all device and the developer don't have to worry about different devices. They either work or don't.
post #72 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Developers don't have to worry about multitasking. The OS take care of everything.

Developers can compile their apps to run on any version they want, including iPhone OS 3.0. Apple made it real easy for developers to identify the device and features. A good developer won't have any problem in that area.

Right on. Too bad we have some many a-holes hear professing to be experts.
post #73 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerARSgm View Post

Over and over again during the call today, Steve emphasized Apple's ability to deliver a better product at a lower price. In the computer world, there's clearly a perceived premium to buying an Mac versus a PC. However, two things seem important to Steve:
1. Apple isn't in this same position with iPhone and iPad as it is with Mac.
2. He wants to stay out in front of any perceived 'Apple Tax' on these products.

As iPod showed, when you dominate the supply chain and design, manufacture, and develop a consumer electronic product - you control the costs in ways others cannot.

Missing from the call - any mention of the 'Halo effect'. I suppose it's just too obvious at this point. Clearly - the halo is big and bright.

steve stood up for all US small guys

go steve !!!


9
whats in a name ? 
beatles
Reply
whats in a name ? 
beatles
Reply
post #74 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

His comments are even more applicable to a 3.2 inch screen than a 7 inch screen. That is the point he wishes people would overlook.

No, the iPhone/Touch do what they are supposed to do on the given screen size. A tablet display can't just arbitrarily be put on a too small screen and have the same functionality and usability as a larger tablet. This is why there are very few universal iOS apps, and it will probably stay that way for quite awhile. The different size devices need different sized UIs and those who don' get that have a number of places they can try to get employment for about the next 18 months before the form factor mistakes bleed the wrong manufacturers dry.
.
Reply
.
Reply
post #75 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Up next: Casio's profits drop by 45%



That would require some pretty good batteries in those 'wireless' headphones. You're probably right though. Especially for running. That's where a watch-music-player would totally excel.

For portable music players a watch with good wireless headphones makes a tonne of sense. The headphones is where the innovation needs to happen though, not the nano itself. They need to have serious battery life, and they need to be tiny. And just as important it needs to be no "extra" hassle to charge the headphones.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #76 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by juandl View Post

Why o Why would S. Jobs have to show up for the conference call?

Perhaps because he's genuinely excited and surprised at Apple's success. Jobs is very much a "do the best you can and be the best and you'll do well" kind of person. He pours himself into Apple's products and expects the same from Apple's employees. I'm sure he expects success, but the level of success Apple has had is amazing and overwhelming.

Steve also still shows genuine amazement at where technology has come. This is the guy who helped assemble Apple Is in a garage by hand. And now they are the second most valuable company in the world!?

He may not be a Woz-level engineer, but he is a real tech-fanboy.

- Jasen.

P.S. IBM also reported earnings http://newsystocks.com/news/3752175
"International Business Machines Corp. (NYSE: IBM) said Monday that its third-quarter net income improved to $3.6 billion, or $2.82 a share, from $3.2 billion, or $2.40 a share, in the year-ago period. Excluding non-operating pension charges and acquisition-related charges, operating net earnings would have been $3.63 billion or $2.85 per share for the quarter.Revenue grew 3% to $24.3 billion. "

Apple had higher net income, but lower quarterly revenue. Apple almost bigger than IBM? Who'd have thunk it in the 80s or 90s?
post #77 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodstains View Post

OK - I knew about all of these except for the battery chemistry. Does anyone know where I can find out more about this? I had assumed Apple was getting custom form factor batteries, but was surprised to hear they're customizing the chemistry.

Nearly two years old.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/01/06mbp.html
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/battery/
post #78 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

That would require some pretty good batteries in those 'wireless' headphones. You're probably right though. Especially for running. That's where a watch-music-player would totally excel. Perhaps that will be Apple's feature-phone?

Scrap BT and go with Kleer Technology. Better sound. Better battery performance.
post #79 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by iDave View Post

"Jobs then quipped that small form-factor tablets will need to ship with sandpaper so users can file down their fingers to the point where they can hit smaller targets on the screen. Elements can only get so small before users can't perform these types of touch and pinch gestures, Jobs insisted."

I had that problem with my iPod touch and quit using it after a month or so. Seems like a weird thing for Jobs to say.

He means for tablet-style apps. I was thinking the same thing, though.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #80 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I'm sick of saying this already, but everyone is just not noticing how senseless his remarks are. Jobs is saying 7" tablets are not viable because they are too small to have a good UI, but the iPhone is smaller and has a good UI. It's just not a sensible argument.


Yes it is a sensible argument!


If you have designed an app for the small iPhone screen it will scale up 2x on the iPad screen. Most apps look ugly -- bigger but ugly, with a lot of wasted space! The controls are too big, the text is too big -- lots of jaggies because no anti-aliasing.

There are exceptions, but you usually have to rethink an app when you move it to the iPad.


The mail app is a good example:

On the iPhone, it's a single column table (scrollable list) with a drill-down:

Mailboxes-->mail summary-->mail detail (the email message)

On the iPad, it's a two tables (side-by-side scrollable lists) with a drill down on the left list

Mailboxes-->mail summary left column or popup (portrait)

mail detail (the email message) right column or underlay (portrait)

The controls and text are about 30-50% larger than on the smaller screen.


If you started with the larger format and scale it down to 45% of the original-- it could easily be less usable than the iPhone.

Samsung, on their Galaxy Tab appears to have provided all the basic "system apps" (mail, calendar, contacts, browser, etc.) where this might be a factor. What they appear to have done is something between the iPhone and iPad -- something specifically scaled to the 7" format.

This, at least, looks OK. Any other Android tablets that do not provide their own "system apps" will have them disproportionate to the size of the screen.

.
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
  • Apple's Steve Jobs slams Google, RIM, and rival tablet makers on conference call
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple's Steve Jobs slams Google, RIM, and rival tablet makers on conference call