Insurance company claims Apple's 'dangerous' MagSafe started fire - Page 2

Nonsense. The fire marshal may have determined that it was an ignition source. But what what was the fuel?

This applies not only to Apple, but to any manufacturer of electronic components. So I am going to make this a generic counter-argument.

What exactly were the circumstances leading to the fire? Assuming for the sake of argument that the AC adapter sparked, what did it spark on? Did the homeowner live is complete filth with fire hazards everywhere? Was it on a table or structure that was highly combustible? Did the homeowner have the laptop plugged into the wall with a bunch of octopus wiring causing an overload of some sort?

I'd bet money that the homeowner is conveniently holding something back.

When I use my Milwaukee cordless 18v power drill, occasionally a spark will spit spit out of the motor vent due to the high torque. If I happen to be standing next to a gasoline drum, is it the fault of the drill company?

There's a lot more to this story that's not being talked about.

Unless the component (regardless of manufacturer) literally blew up and exploded like a brick of C-4 explosives, then I'm not convinced it was entirely the company's fault. Not just yet.

That's the problem with you couch conspiracy-theorists. You're quick to judge without waiting to see what the outcome is. Then, when the truth does come out, you quietly retreat to a corner and hope no-one calls you on it.

In the end, yet another label will be attached to a device to protect you from yourselves.

How's this: "This product incorporates high-voltage circuitry of 120v. Please keep away from all combustible materials.".

Sounds familiar?

Because that's what insurance companies do. They absorb the cost of accidents regardless of who is at fault.

If consumers want to sue Apple because the device is defective, that's fine. But I don't see why an insurance company should be reimbursed unless Apple broke the law.

Meanwhile, my family has about five of these adapters and has never had a problem.

1. The MagSafe concept is pretty good. There is no real problem with the magnetic latching.

2. The cable that runs between the wall wart and the Mac is a piece of crap! I base that on about 30 years of maintenance experience with industrial controls. There are actually two issues with the cables. One is the lack of aggressive strain reliefs which Apple apparently tried to address with the updated connectors. The second issues is with the cable itself. The design of the cable is such that it is subject to knotting up or twisting if not handled carefully. There is actually a word for what happens to the cable which escapes me. In anyevent what happens is that when it gets twisted the right way the coaxial construction results in the outer layers coming into contact with the inner. This can cause shorts in cables and rapid heating.

The problem I have is that the deterioration on such hardware should be fairly obvious to the user. Thus I believe they have some responsibility here. It is like the breaks wearing out on your car and you then smashing into somebody at an intersection. Ford can't babysit your car for you, you as the owner have to take responsibility for safe operation of the machine.

3. Nothing last for ever but in this case it is pretty obvious that the power supplies don't last as long as reasonably expected. This falls squarely on Apples shoulders and would be reasonably described as not suitable for the purpose. Even Dell has better laptop power supplies.

It's called subrogation. A component of most insurance contracts is that the underwriter steps into the shoes of the insured once they pay the claim. Therefore, the insurance company plaintiff in this case has standing to bring any claim that the insured could have brought themselves.

With regard to the claim itself, one who introduces a product into the stream of commerce in a condition unreasonably dangerous is liable for harms caused by the defect. There are undoubtedly questions of fact to be resolved in litigation, but it does not seem to me that this claim would be properly characterized as "frivolous" by any stretch of the imagination.

I hope that the evidence was kept, otherwise they will have a tough time proving anything. Apple has the right to inspect the alleged faulty equipment and if it is not around, that will be tough for a court to allow the case to proceed.

Pretty obvious that not a single one of you knows how insurance works. Look up the word "subrogation" if you want to educate yourselves. The insurance company goes after Apple so the little guy doesn't have to. That's part of the protection that insurance provides to you. If someone is determined to be at fault due to a defective product, who's going to hold them accountable? Joe Homeowner?


Actually, I think just the opposite. Apple will quietly pay the money rather than risk losing in court. Because THAT would set a precedent that would bring out all the frivolous lawsuits. This isn't a murder case that requires a unanimnous verdict to convict. A couple of sympathic jurors could side with the plantiff based on the fire marshall's report and all the complaints on the internet about the issue.

What does it matter. Item xyz caused a fire, it doesn't matter if the fuel was paint on the wall or somebodies trashy novel. If your device elevated them to burning temperatures then who is at fault.

Are you trying to imply that the only accePtable way to live is on concrete and rock? It anyevent if said device did cause a fire due to a design issue then what difference does it make where the device was.

What you are missing here is that the insurance company has enough evidence that it thinks it can sue Apple. The investigative work is already done.

That is always possible but I highly doubt it in this case. There was likely little involvement from the home owner. The investigation is done by the Firemarshal and whomever the insurance company hired.

You are also in direct control of that drill. It is not unreasonable to expect a laptop to be left on a charger for a length of time un-attended.

How do you know this? Besides what more detail do you need a laptop power supply/charger failed causing a fire. This failure is common to Apples MagSafe system, it really shouldn't be a surprise anymore.

You must be really dense if it takes a brick of C4 to convince yourself of anything.

The outcome of this action doesn't really matter. The failure of cords feeding MagSafe connectors is well documented.

Most likely Apple will just pay off the insurance company.

I think you mixed up voltage and frequency so no it doesn't sound familiar. The other problem is that the cords supplying power to the laptops are low voltage.

I'm glad you'll never be my attorney!

The drill example is pointless because just leads to expected use arguments. A laptop is meant to be used in an environment where there is paper, fabric, wood, etc, in the area (think of your desk) and it's not expected to spark. If I dropped the end of the adaptor into that barrel of gasoline, sure, then it's my fault. But not because the paper on my desk caught fire from a defect cord.

If the plantiffs can convince a jury that there was no use of the power adaptor outside of expected use (ie, the dog didn't chew on it, etc) then they have a good chance of winning.

I've got a 2007 Macbook that I bought in July of that year. There's no damage to my adapter, but I have been sitting using my computer and when I got up grabbed the box of the adapter and it was too hot to handle for more than 2 seconds. After reading this, I'll probably go home and check to make sure the cables are in good condition.

No, they don't. Please either understand something before posting it as fact, or write it in a way that admits to your lack of understanding..."Isn't that how insurance works..." or "I think insurnance works this way..."

You'd still be wrong, but at least you won't look as silly when someone corrects you.

I agree the first magsafe design is a wimpy, piece of sh*t. For something that is connected and disconnected on purpose by application design, it should be improved.

Oh, look. It was.

Defective? Maybe. Could be better? Definitely!

My point is to clarify that when an item (regardless of manufacturer) is used in an environment that could potentially make a small problem worse, it has to be taken into consideration.

What I take issue with are posters that immediately put blame on Apple without waiting for the information of exactly what happened. I EXPECT an insurance company to investigate the cause. In all honestly, I wish all insurance companies investigated every claim before paying out just to settle to make sure there is no fraud involved. They are doing that, and if the case goes to trial (I doubt it), the truth will come out.

Even you don't know what the conditions were to cause the fire. I don't know what they are either. What you seem to be presuming is that the adapter sparked, and suddenly the entire house went up in flames. Sorry, it's just not that black and white.

What I want to know is what the condition of that adapter was in just prior to the fire and what clutter, hazards, etc. was in the immediate vicinity of that adapter. I've seen how my friends abuse their AC adapters like it was a rock. Dropping it, hitting it against something, etc. If it was caused by abuse, is Apple still 100% liable or is there some responsibility by the homeowner?

I have two Magsafe adapters. One for home and one in the office so I don't have to carry the adapter around. They are plugged in all the time. I never give it a 2nd thought about them blowing up and burning the structure down. It even makes me think twice. But they are not in an area where failure could cause a major fire. Heck, if I had to think that way, I'd be unplugging everything each time we're not in the room!

The article doesn't say if there was a problem with the connector, cable or the transformer brick. I know that my 2007 magsafe power adaptor cable started to show it's inner shielding. The plastic sheath gets bunched up a little every time you wind the cable up. I just stretched the plastic sheath back down while the cable was unwound and it covered the innards of the cable again.

I'm wondering if this person had a similar problem but didn't do anything about it and continued to use the cable with part of it exposed. It's also possible that they didn't unwind the cable fully. That would also cause a problem in the same way that you're supposed to fully unwind power extension cables before plugging any appliance into them.

How the hell is this frivolous?

Nobody blamed Apple without waiting for the info... we are just saying based on our experience, we (at least I) wouldn't be surprised if the Magsafe adapter was to blame.

On the other hand, it seems that you immediately blame on someone else.

And, DO NOT UNPLUG your Macbook each time you are not in the room. That's exactly what breaks the cord. If you are always hooked up and never need to unplug/plug it, it is very unlikely that it will cause any problems.

Having had the pleasure of rebuilding one of these connectors, (two hours of fun cutting through silicone and plastic,) not really. I discovered that the wires are concentric, not in parallel strands. This means that when there is any damage to the shielding/insulation a short can occur.
Why the folks at Apple don't have a circuit breaker and or AFCI/GFCI built in I don't know, as the wires do melt and charr. Disclaimer, Yes I was pulling the cable not the connector. Duhh!. Maybe future designs should have a mag-safe connector on both ends, so the cable can simply be replaced and or extended when needed with a longer one. What a concept.[

Good one. I had the exact opposite experience. Some guy with a POS car ran a red light and very slightly scraped against my front bumper. It caused no damage to my car but put a nice scratch all the way down the side of his. Police came wrote a report that he was at fault and we went on our way. Six months later the DMV sent a letter saying my license would be revoked if I didn't send a certified check covering his damages. I contacted my insurance and learned that he had sued them and they just paid without even contacting me. Then he tried to get more money from me using the state. I finally got the DMV to return my money but that guy was a major weasel and the insurance company just caved in.

Shouldn't have Apple done a recall if this were a real hazard? If they knew about it and did nothing then they should pay-up. Burning a person's house down (allegedly) with the possibility of a death is very serious. I have a Macbook so it would be responsible of Apple to own up to this making a statement either way and if there's an issue then tell folks, like me, of the potential issue.

I'm continually moving my Pro from room to room, and my cord as well. No problems whatsoever. AND if I ever saw any damage or fraying I'd have the common sense to know that the cable needed replacing.

This sounds indeed like an insurance company looking at Apple's deep pockets. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Can't fault them for trying, but that is what insurance is for - to mitigate risk. Maybe the owner should have recognized the fraying of the cable but the insurance company would not be suing anyone if a frying pan caught on fire. Accidents happen. Covering their clients is their business. They receive premiums to pay for that sort of thing.

Save the insults. A google search for "car" shows pictures of cars. A google search of "burned car" shows what you describe! Do you not understand what my point was!?

The abundance of these photos when searching for the product (not JUST " Magsafe burned") would leave anyone to reach a logical conclusion that this seems to be an abundant problem with this product.

I guess its just all those trolls being paid by Apples competition, right? They bought all the immediate image results for "MagSafe" lol

A product defect doesn't mean that all product fails. Maybe only a portion will.

By faulting the insurance company, it sounds like you are the close-minded person without looking at evidences.

Already, quite a few people have told you their personal stories. Do a google on "Magsafe defective" and you will get more than enough complaints to tell you there is a real chance that this fire is caused by the adapter.

If you are so against Google, Bing would work too.

And seriously, anyone using the old magsafe adapter SHOULD BE CAREFUL. The new one is much nicer (wonder why Apple re-designed it?) I would pay out of my own pocket for the new adapter for the peace of mind (but I got a new MBP instead)

By the way, the photos here show the problem:

Magsafe burn

There are many many more photos of burnt Magsafe adapters on the net.

My adapter never showed any signs of wear. Maybe people shouldn't yank the magsafe out of the computer by the cord? just a thought here. Mine lasted two years just fine, and my fathers lasted 4 years with no problems... hmmm.

Going to have to disagree with you here. I am on my fourth adapter for my 1st gen. MBP. The previous three all had the same problem, with the sleeve pulling out from the "brick" part of the adapter over time. I am never rough with these (I just "flick" the connector off, never pulling on the cord). Apple replaced my first two (the second was well out of warranty) because they were well aware of the issues with these (hence the redesign). If you did not have problems then consider yourself lucky. However, don't dismiss others as negligence because you did not have the same problem. That is just very short sighted and arrogant.

My insults were nice and depending on a page you are in a google search there are burned cars. MagSafe is no more dangerous than any other charger. Phones and bateries too explode every once in awhile. If we started to have tens and hundreds of MagSafe adapters burn out of thin air all over the world you would be right. Now it could be many things if at all MagSafe was the cause. I have seen quite few charger abused to the point that only moron that abused them could use them. And even if that was true where exactly is Apples fault? It's a know fact that home appliance, electronics can be a fire hazard.

You know what is just very short sighted and arrogant? Assume that every consumer is an angel. Everything we create is oerfect, but if Apple is involved let's just get some money no matter what. Still we know 0 about the actuall cause of fire.

Sue Greenpeace. Its these pricks wanting a nice environmentally friendly Apple that caused this. The removal of the harmful shit in the plastics weakens them and due to this the conductors can move more and fray inside the plastic sheath. They then heat up and cause fires.

Tree hugging bastards burned down my house. LOL

But seriously, the original magsafe plug was a bit wanky due to the fact that users don't have the wire fed to their macs from the sides but the rear. The redesigned 'right angle' plug feeds the cable towards the rear and removes the stress on the cable. Apple is not alone in this design as I have seen countless laptop power supplies from HP, Dell and Acer all fail when they feed into the laptop from the side and the cable is bent backwards. I had to replace the powersupply on my sons Dell this week after it burned through the plastic casing on the cable at the laptop end.

lol.

"I lost everything and I need someone to blame. Lets blame a big company, they usually settle for lots of $$$!"

I had one of the old ones and now have one of the new L-shaped ones with a new MBP.

They've changed more than the shape of the connector (from T to L). The strain relief is a lot bigger. And also, with regard to the comment

the cable itself is changed. It's now very stiff. There are no markings on the cable jacket but it feels to me like the difference between regular network cable and plenum-rated cable (usually has a Teflon jacket). The old cable was soft and flexible and I guess it would burn a lot more easily.

I never had a problem with the old one FWIW

My thoughts exactly. Anyone who pulls out any cable by the cord is asking for trouble. This is true of any plug whatsoever.

I have personally had 4 of these, no problem at all. I also have two carts full of them, 40 MBPs in all, no problem with any of those, either.

Insurance companies the world over just want to collect the premiums and never pay out a dime. Such is the nature of their racket. Like banks, they are never exposed to any actual risk, and if they were, they would simply go out of business and not pay.

I agree. The new design of the connector fixed the problem. We went through two of the old connector's separating the cord from the connector.

Sure, this one is peanuts, but what about the next 70,000 cases brought against them after this one is settled?

Duplicate deleted.

Yep, the power adapter for the original Titanium Powerbook G4. Also a strain-relief problem, iirc.


The adapter has to put out enough to run the laptop at full tilt plus extra for charging the batteries. Could be over 100 watts. That's plenty of energy, and if shorted that energy is dissipated in a small area. More than enough to start a fire.

2 problems with that. First, the original design presented a strong latching and a very small slick surface for the user to grasp when pulling the connector. It can be difficult for people to remove the proper way. Second, the entire reason for magsafe is that it will disconnect if someone walks into the cord. That's a heck of a high-strain moment. Instead of a substandard strain-relief, one would expect this particular adapter to have extra-strong construction. Instead they went for an "elegant", thin and supple cord. So, 2 failures in design as regards the intended application.



Maybe less likely. Again, the original magsafe design practically invites pulling the cord.

This is a fictionalized account of the way big companies work from the movie Fight Club:

Narrator: "A new car built by my company
leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The
rear differential locks up. The car crashes
and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now:
should we initiate a recall? Take the number
of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the
probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the
average out-of-court settlement, C. A times
B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost
of a recall, we don't do one."
Business woman on plane: "Are there a lot of
these kinds of accidents?"
Narrator: "You wouldn't believe."
Business woman on plane: "Which car company do
you work for?"
Narrator: "A major one."

The same here with my son's laptop, in a classroom. Just spotainiosly, nobody was close to the MB. The teacher was in the classroom and pulled the cable in two because it was melted and couldn't get it off the MB. Still fighting to get the repair paid back.

yes yes, if someone's magsafe catches on fire, it's because they are a moron and they abused them lol

Why does my charger spark at the plug when I plug it in to the wall? Apple says it's normal, but I really don't think the plug should spark. And I'm an amateur radio operator with an extra-class FCC license, but I still don't like that the thing sparks.