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Google VP shows off prototype Android-based Motorola tablet - Page 2

post #41 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jblenio View Post

I have an iPhone 4. I'm interested in getting an Android phone to replace my 4. However, I will never switch to an Android phone unless I can upgrade my Android OS like I can do with my iPhone. I think it is very poor form on Google's part to make me have to get a new phone to have the latest version of the Android OS. Just stupid.

Then you should get the Nexus S.. That is the one Android phone that is unbasterdized by the manufacturer and carriers and will be the first to get upgraded to the latest Android version.

I think the Nexus phone is the only Android phone you can truly compare side by side the iPhone. It's pure Android.
post #42 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

So to answer your question, you would simply press the "Home" button.

but you still need a gesture to make it show, or will it show automatically when you finger hovering over it?
I might sound like cherry-picking but I hate a design just for a sake of being cute. But like you said, this is only a preview so we need more informations about it.
post #43 of 84
Vaporware !

As usual, showing something, not telling when it will ships, and bitching everybody will not work.

Show us a real product and we will compare it to the iPad

Google is like Microsoft in the 90's and IBM in the 60's.

Vaporware
post #44 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

Is that a fragmentation?

Btw, I don't have "much" problem with fragmentation. I wouldn't imagine myself replacing phone that often but I would be pissed if a main function of a phone and a tablet fragmented.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Yes and no. Yes in that it is different (I have no idea why) in placement. No in that it's always the same four buttons and they all do the same four functions (default) on every phone.

Id say it falls squarely under consistency. This sort of erratic nature between devices typically doesnt site well with consumers, which may be a reason why the iPhone has more repeat business and more loyal users. Same goes for the Android OS fragmentation (which trollish posters say Apple is just as guilty of simply by offering a yearly update to the HW and OS).

DaHarder is correct in that all Android phones are eligible for all Android updates, but eligible merely means they could be updated if the vendor cared. Historically vendors are showing very little interest in giving older HW updates and even the ones that get updates only seem to get them months after the update hits for other devices.

For instance, the Nexus S has v2.3 and will be released in mid-December, but how long will it be before other devices, even from that same vendor, will get version 2.3. That isnt a way to build customer confidence.


Quote:
Originally Posted by papyrus100 View Post

Vaporware !

As usual, showing something, not telling when it will ships, and bitching everybody will not work.

Show us a real product and we will compare it to the iPad

Google is like Microsoft in the 90's and IBM in the 60's.

Vaporware

Since it was a demo, not a flashy animation video I think its safe to say its not vapourware.
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post #45 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

but you still need a gesture to make it show, or will it show automatically when you finger hovering over it?
I might sound like cherry-picking but I hate a design just for a sake of being cute. But like you said, this is only a preview so we need more informations about it.

On the current phones, they light up when:

1. You wake the screen up
2. You touch a button directly or in the general area

They stay lit for an amount of time defined by the user. You can still make them out when they are not lit. The glowing just makes them more pronounced.
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post #46 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

Competition... Hmmm, hmmm good. Your move Apple.

how is this competition? it is not out yet... by the time Gingerbread, Frosted Flakes or snacky cakes comes out apple will be launching the iPad2.

so IT MIGHT be released in time to COMPETE with the iPAD 2....

until then...it's competing with the vapourware.
post #47 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Id say it falls squarely under consistency. This sort of erratic nature between devices typically doesnt site well with consumers, which may be a reason why the iPhone has more repeat business and more loyal users. Same goes for the Android OS fragmentation (which trollish posters say Apple is just as guilty of simply by offering a yearly update to the HW and OS).

I'll agree on the consistency part. I have no idea why it's being varied so much between manufacturers and even within the same company.

However, at least it's the exact same four buttons being used. It did take my brain a day or two to overwrite my muscle memory from the button placement between the Droid and the X, but it wasn't a completely impossible task.

Quote:
Since it was a demo, not a flashy animation video I think its safe to say its not vapourware.

A Moto tablet under the name of "Stingray" was also found in Verizon's future device release plan. I think it's safe to say that this tablet is indeed coming.
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post #48 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Most likely Verizon's Motorola 10 inch Stingray featuring a dual-core Terga 2 processor, 1gb RAM, crazy fast GPU, and all that Android Honeycomb goodness.

That's sort of like, "all that Windows goodness," right?
post #49 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

On the current phones, they light up when:

1. You wake the screen up
2. You touch a button directly or in the general area

They stay lit for an amount of time defined by the user. You can still make them out when they are not lit. The glowing just makes them more pronounced.

Hmm... I almost swear the Galaxy Tab I played with has "physical" buttons. What you describe doesn't sound "physical" at all.
post #50 of 84
Android barely cuts it as a smartphone OS, what makes anyone think it'll work right on a tablet? Google still has a long way to go, that's apparent.

Had a chance to play with an HTC Desire Z recently, for about an hour. Now I know why the only iPhone-Killer is .... the next iPhone.
post #51 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

Hmm... I almost swear the Galaxy Tab I played with has "physical" buttons. What you describe doesn't sound "physical" at all.

Actually, what you see on the Galaxy Tab is exactly what I'm talking about. Those aren't "physical" buttons in the traditional sense. A traditional button requires a moving part to make contact with a circuit under the button when you press down on it, completing the circuit and thus registering a press.

Capacitive buttons works the same way as the screen in principle. The circuit is raised to the surface of the device and it's the electrical conductivity of your finger that completes it. So simply touching the surface causes the device to register that you touched it.

It eliminates the "wear and tear" factor but also removes that familiar tactile response of pressing a button.
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post #52 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Actually, what you see on the Galaxy Tab is exactly what I'm talking about. Those aren't "physical" buttons in the traditional sense. A traditional button requires a moving part to make contact with a circuit under the button when you press down on it, completing the circuit and thus registering a press.

Capacitive buttons works the same way as the screen in principle. The circuit is raised to the surface of the device and it's the electrical conductivity of your finger that completes it. So simply touching the surface causes the device to register that you touched it.

It eliminates the "wear and tear" factor but also removes that familiar tactile response of pressing a button.

There have been buttons without moving parts around for years, for example, in elevators. I don't think moving parts are necessary to be considered a physical button, or at this date, even to be considered traditional.
post #53 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Android barely cuts it as a smartphone OS, what makes anyone think it'll work right on a tablet? Google still has a long way to go, that's apparent.

Had a chance to play with an HTC Desire Z recently, for about an hour. Now I know why the only iPhone-Killer is .... the next iPhone.

You know what? I think Ballmer said the exact same thing when Apple planned to release their own phone.

Is that you Ballmer?!
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post #54 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

Competition... Hmmm, hmmm good. Your move Apple.

Competition is, in and of itself, neither good nor bad. It can lead to results that are positive or negative. It is neither a necessary nor a sufficient cause of progress or "good".
post #55 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

There have been buttons without moving parts around for years, for example, in elevators. I don't think moving parts are necessary to be considered a physical button, or at this date, even to be considered traditional.

I only called them "traditional" for the sake of differentiating between the two.
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post #56 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Actually, what you see on the Galaxy Tab is exactly what I'm talking about.

Ah.. A memory must be playing trick on me. So The icon is just be hidden instead of being shown like the Tab. I see.
post #57 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

You know what? I think Ballmer said the exact same thing when Apple planned to release their own phone.

Is that you Ballmer?!

You know what? I don't think he did.
post #58 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

I only called them "traditional" for the sake of differentiating between the two.

No, I think you were trying to redefine 'physical', 'button' and 'traditional' so as to pretend there weren't physical buttons.
post #59 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

You know what? I don't think he did.

I do believe his quote was:

"Theres no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance.

You know what? This sounds very similar to what Quadra is saying. That an Android tablet will fail.
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post #60 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

No, I think you were trying to redefine 'physical', 'button' and 'traditional' so as to pretend there weren't physical buttons.

I hate to turn things personal, but it just seems like you're arguing for the sake of arguing against me at this point.

"Pretend there weren't physical buttons" where? On the Moto tablet shown or in life in general?
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post #61 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

I do believe his quote was:

"Theres no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance.

You know what? This sounds very similar to what Quadra is saying. That an Android tablet will fail.

He said they have a long way to go, which they do. It's also very different from what Ballmer said
post #62 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

I hate to turn things personal, but it just seems like you're arguing for the sake of arguing against me at this point.

"Pretend there weren't physical buttons" where? On the Moto tablet shown or in life in general?

You tell me. It was your attempt at obfuscation through redefinition. No need to try to change the subject either.
post #63 of 84
Once again Apple leads, others copy.
post #64 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

He said they have a long way to go, which they do. It's also very different from what Ballmer said

Which is why I said similar and not "exact". My read on his post was that he's implying that Android is not good for tablets, just like Ballmer's implied back in 2007 that the iPhone wouldn't be good as a phone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

You tell me. It was your attempt at obfuscation through redefinition. No need to try to change the subject either.

Ok, I'll bite.

There was a comment about the buttons on the Moto tablet. At the time, all we had to go on were pictures of the video taken at the All Things D event, so it looked like there were no buttons on the tablet, hence matrix07's questions. This morning, the video itself was released online and it seems that the buttons are capacitive.

If it makes you feel better, I'll change it from "traditional" to "push-button". I used the word "traditional" because when most people think of a button, they think of something you press and move into a slot to complete a circuit. It's a mechanical device.

Whereas the capacitive "button" isn't really a button at all. It's more of just an open circuit that is closed when any conductive material is put over it. You could say that a resistive pad would be analogous to the push-button.


For your further reading:

http://www.eetimes.com/design/analog...-touch-sensing
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post #65 of 84
Quote:
During the interview, Rubin also showed off the just announced Nexus S smartphone

I have to admit that's one Android phone that i'm liking a lot. When Google refers to this phone as "Pure Google" are they implying that it's free of crapware from the carriers? Would this be a first?

UPDATE: Just read this "After December 16, Nexus S will be sold unlocked and carrier-independent initially through Best Buy stores in the U.S. and after December 20 at Carphone Warehouse stores in the UK.".

Partly answers my first question.
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post #66 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post

I have to admit that's one Android phone that i'm liking a lot. When Google refers to this phone as "Pure Google" are they implying that it's free of crapware from the carriers? Would this be a first?

UPDATE: Just read this "After December 16, Nexus S will be sold unlocked and carrier-independent initially through Best Buy stores in the U.S. and after December 20 at Carphone Warehouse stores in the UK.".

Partly answers my first question.

Yes, "Pure Google" means completely stock OS. Technically speaking, the G1 and Droid were the first two phones with stock OSs. Then came the Nexus One and now the Nexus S.
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #67 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Most likely Verizon's Motorola 10 inch Stingray featuring a dual-core Terga 2 processor, 1gb RAM, crazy fast GPU, and all that Android Honeycomb goodness.

Game On!

Look at all the little craplets on that tablet. (By craplet, I mean apps installed by the manufacturer or carrier that can't be removed.) Rubin says they're a feature:

"Thats the nature of open," Rubin said. "Thats actually a feature of Android."

It's been widely reported. Just Google (oh the irony) "Rubin defends craplets".

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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post #68 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Look at all the little craplets on that tablet. (By craplet, I mean apps installed by the manufacturer or carrier that can't be removed.) Rubin says they're a feature:

"Thats the nature of open," Rubin said. "Thats actually a feature of Android."

It's been widely reported. Just Google (oh the irony) "Rubin defends craplets".

You already posted this. Spamming is annoying, please stop.
post #69 of 84
meh, come back when it's ten times bigger.

Hey SonyEricsson might be releasing Froyo for the X10 in Q2 next year, last weeks update to eclair killed Angry Birds for me.

Have you been following Gameloft's twitter feed, they've been giving away iOS and Android games.

Driver for iPhone was day one, 500+MB

Dungeon Hunter for Android was day 3 and what a mess that was, more whining than JFK, from fragmented Android users who couldn't get the game to work with their various handsets..

I'd rather have the real thing than some lame imitation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

NFS that came preinstalled on my DX is close to 100 MB. I'm sure that's not the only 3D game out there for Android.

How come the Galaxy S, Experia X10 and Dell Streak only have three buttons?

You said they they all have four, with the same functions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Yes and no. Yes in that it is different (I have no idea why) in placement. No in that it's always the same four buttons and they all do the same four functions (default) on every phone.

Twice

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

However, at least it's the exact same four buttons being used. It did take my brain a day or two to overwrite my muscle memory from the button placement between the Droid and the X, but it wasn't a completely impossible task..

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post #70 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Yes, "Pure Google" means completely stock OS. Technically speaking, the G1 and Droid were the first two phones with stock OSs. Then came the Nexus One and now the Nexus S.

Thanks for the feedback
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post #71 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

With Google's Honeycomb Android update customized specifically for tablets, the rivalry between iOS and Android should heat up next year.

Only if Apple stops releasing new hardware and/or new versions of the iOS. Otherwise Google will catch up to where Apple was, Apple will again leapfrog them and so it continues...
post #72 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

Is that a security tether in the photo?

The cynical side of me would point out it's probably a power cable needed to run the thing for more than 10 minutes.

The practical side of me would probably point out it's to mirror the video for display on stage.
post #73 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Perhaps 802.11n status affirmation should also be based on minimum attained results not just protocol in spec sheets.

Perhaps consumers should just realize that none of this stuff is as it appears. Take 4G speeds, for instance...
post #74 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

meh, come back when it's ten times bigger.

Hey SonyEricsson might be releasing Froyo for the X10 in Q2 next year, last weeks update to eclair killed Angry Birds for me.

Have you been following Gameloft's twitter feed, they've been giving away iOS and Android games.

Driver for iPhone was day one, 500+MB

Dungeon Hunter for Android was day 3 and what a mess that was, more whining than JFK, from fragmented Android users who couldn't get the game to work with their various handsets..

I'd rather have the real thing than some lame imitation.

Good for you guys! Here's a cookie for winning the...File Size War?



I don't think anyone's really losing any sleep over what you just said. Though I am now hungry for some snacks...


Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

How come the Galaxy S, Experia X10 and Dell Streak only have three buttons?

You got me there. Android's screwed! Head for the hills!

But seriously. I did forget about the X10 and the Streak. The Galaxy S (worldwide version it looks like you put up) I actually didn't know only had the menu and back keys. All variants in the US have all four keys. That's interesting.

I will say that at the very least, the buttons they do have are mapped (by default) to the same functions as the rest of the Android lineup. So it's not like the manufacturers went all crazy and put something like the camera shutter button up there. So I revise my statement to say the vast majority of Android devices have the same four function buttons.
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post #75 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Since it was a demo, not a flashy animation video I think its safe to say its not vapourware.

Until it ships it's vapourware. There are degree's of vapor - and I don't doubt it will ship one day, but just like the RIM tablet until the average joe public person can put his mitts on it, it's all but a glimmer in marketing's eye...
post #76 of 84
Apparently it does for some of the people complaining about Dragon Hunter issues in the Gameloft twitter feed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

I will say that at the very least, the buttons they do have are mapped (by default) to the same functions as the rest of the Android lineup. So it's not like the manufacturers went all crazy and put something like the camera shutter button up there. So I revise my statement to say the vast majority of Android devices have the same four function buttons.
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post #77 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Not true, as all modern Android devices are eligible for updates, and only much older hardware gets left out, just as older iPhones/iPod Touch device don't get the latest iOS updates.

Android updates are primarily controlled by carriers, not the manufacturers. Carriers do not like updates due the increased support costs that are incurred when the operation of the phone or included applications changes, or worse there is a problem with the upgrade that may require warranty replacement of the phone. Thus most manufacturers have limited or no experience with actually preparing and deploying updates. Remember, a carrier gets no revenue from an update.

Doing this type of work requires a major shift in the internal product development model of manufacturers - now software has to be considered a first class product along with the hardware. It will be years before the cultural shifts take place in the manufacturers - it is a change that will likely require the replacement of the engineering & marketing management team from the VP down to the first line managers.

Yes, in theory almost every Android phone could be updated, but in practice only a few models actually are, and those only on selected carriers.

Aside from Apple, only RIM has this kind of experience. (Assuming HP drops the phone portion of Palm).
post #78 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Apparently it does for some of the people complaining about Dragon Hunter issues in the Gameloft twitter feed.

Considering that "Dragon Hunter" doesn't exist as a Gameloft game, I still don't think anyone's losing any sleep over it. Dungeon Hunter (the game you probably meant?)...still probably not.

I don't use Twitter, but from what I've read, the issues are with Gameloft's servers trying to keep up with the demand for all the downloads over the give-aways. Not surprising when you give title away for free.
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post #79 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by dehildum View Post

Android updates are primarily controlled by carriers, not the manufacturers. Carriers do not like updates due the increased support costs that are incurred when the operation of the phone or included applications changes

I think it's far simpler than that. If they can force updates only with new phones, they can get you to re-sign a new contract and be able to show guaranteed revenue.

It's all about cash flow.

I'm sure support costs are a factor, but I can guarantee you they are secondary to security a primary source of guaranteed, steady revenue.
post #80 of 84
Lame-o-central
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