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As iPhone debut looms, Verizon says AT&T not known for reliable network - Page 2

post #41 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

While this is outrageous I think this could have happened to any carrier.
http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/2007...-customer.html

Maybe "this could have happened to any carrier", especially with what the public schools are producing... However, it was Verizon and although disputes over billing occur on all carriers, Verizon's handling was egregious in that the mathematically ignorant went so high up the chain of management!

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post #42 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingNewMedia View Post

It is 11 EST, the Verizon event is about to begin, and the Apple store still says "Select your iPhone, then choose your AT&T rate plan."

Apple's not going to give it away before the announcement, and it may also be the case that it won't be available immediately following this event.

Besides, "Okay, it looks like you're expecting a big announcement. I don't think we'll disappoint. If the press write something long enough, eventually it comes true. We're very very excited about our announcement today." is pretty telling.
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post #43 of 73
With all this talk about LTE and the way in which CDMA was referenced it almost sounds like an LTE iPhone. That would be a surprise.
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post #44 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Probably because the '4G' isn't. There is so much crap being claimed about having 4G. I am not aware of a single carrier in the US with it. The definition of 4G is easily looked up too! There should be some kind of watchdog that can fine and have removed such blatantly inaccurate advertising. Advertising is not covered by Free Speech surely?

If you want to be pedantic and adhere to the ITU definition feel free. Who made the ITU the king of the english language?

For everyone else LTE, WiMAX, and even higher end HSDPA (7.2 or 14.0) etc are "4G" as we're not getting 1 Gbit service for a long assed while. We wont even see 100 Mbps service for LTE for a while in the US. The backhaul simply won't be in place.

If I can get reliable 5+ Mbps mobile data service that's the next generation in comparison to current 1-3 Mbps 3G service I see on AT&T. THAT provides reliable video streaming and is a huge jump in capability vs a random technical line in the sand specified by the ITU. A line they stuck too far to the right to be meaningful. You can do that with LTE, WiMax and HSDPA 7.2/14.0 and not with older 3G systems.

When we get reliable 5+ Mbps we have viable wired broadband replacement capability much like how we largely can replace landline phones with mobile phones. That is the next generation of capability that is meaningful to users. For once, the marketing is right more than the standard/technical folks.

Right now I have 5 Mbps FiOS service at home. Reliable 7-10 Mbps cellular data service would likely replace my FiOS service if it were available.
post #45 of 73
"AT&T is known for a lot of things, but network quality is not one of them," he said. "Typically companies try to call attention to their strongest suit."

Looking at my Droid X on Verizon 1X (no 3G) just west of Atlanta
I had perfect AT&T signal. Sure regret switching to VZW

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post #46 of 73
There it is.... offically.

Adios AT&T.

The CEO says talks started in 2008 to bring the iPhone to Verizon. One that was “up to what Verizon customers expect.”

Wait, you mean you can use it to make phone calls??!!?!?!?!? Revolutionary! No special grip required? Shocking!!!

In other words- AT&T iphone= beta test for reliable VZ iphone.
post #47 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damn_Its_Hot View Post

I would much rather hear the positives and how they are going to handle voice OR data but not both at the same time. This is the biggest difference I see.

They couldn't talk about that, because it would be seen as THE proof the iPhone is being announced. More so than the whole 'Gizmodo wasn't invited' which could just mean they are no longer BFFs like Giz believes. Their iPad/iPhone stunts could have pissed off a lot of folks on principle.

But to talk about the number one thing viewed as why Apple would never support CDMA. Why hype that if not because the iPhone

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #48 of 73
Verizon iPhone 4 has the revised antenna design, wonder if it will migrate to be the standard iPhone design.

Phil
post #49 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowepg View Post

[...] The CEO says talks started in 2008 to bring the iPhone to Verizon. One that was up to what Verizon customers expect.

Wait, you mean you can use it to make phone calls??!!?!?!?!? Revolutionary! No special grip required? Shocking!!!

In other words- AT&T iphone= beta test for reliable VZ iphone.

You perceive the world in strange ways.
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post #50 of 73
I hope that AT&T matches the mobile hotspot cost plan...assuming Verizon isn't charging in a dickish way like AT&T does for tethering.

Edit: Looks like when a call comes in the hotspot goes poof...kinda had to expect that but Bah Humbug.
post #51 of 73
I was a Nextel user before the original iPhone debuted. I switched to ATT just to get the iPhone. I was amazed then at the improvement in service I received. I had no dropped calls and a clear strong signal. I was a happy camper - particularly with a new iPhone. Then the iPhone 3 came out. Being an early adopter for all things Apple, I bought the iPhone 3. I began noticing more dropped calls. It wasn't the new iPhone. My wife had the original iPhone and began experiencing the same thing. As I progressed to the iPhone 3GS and now the iPhone 4, my ATT service has steadily deteriorated. ATT is unreliable as a cell phone carrier. Many other users I know with ATT without iPhones experience the same dropped calls problem. I haven't been a Verizon customer so I don't know what their service is like, but eveeryone I've talked to and every customer service survey I've read places Verizon at the top and ATT at the bottom. It's sad that a company such as ATT has such a poor reputation and in my experience, poor service. If Verizon can provide good service, ATT surely has the resources to do the same. Maybe it's time ATT stockholders voice their dissatisfaction and put a new CEO at the helm. Otherwise, they'll see the value of their company and stock fall as people Verizon leaves them behind in the dust. Don't get me wrong, I would like very much for ATT to improve the quality of their service and provide better value to their customers. I'm not looking to jump ship and switch to Verizon. But I'm like many other people. If Verizon can provide a better service for the same cost, who'd not switch?
post #52 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mynameisjoe View Post

All this commotion is over nothing. I don't think Verizon is going to get the iPhone. Todays event is just to announce that the Beatles are coming to V-Cast.

Now that would be funny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Consumer Reports couldn't recommend the iPhone 4

But they did. Until they decide to trump up a nonexistent design issue and stop.

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post #53 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

You perceive the world in strange ways.

perhaps. strange from the AT&T perspective, certainly.

with which do you disagree?

antenna fixed= upgrade
hotspot out-of-the-box= upgrade
reliable 3G network= upgrade
unlimited data=upgrade
no voice + data at same time= step backwards.
post #54 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by womble2k2 View Post

Verizon iPhone 4 has the revised antenna design, wonder if it will migrate to be the standard iPhone design.

Yes and no. Buttons were repositioned, too. The difference stems from the disparate networks with different HW and different requirements. Its likely they learned from the iPhone 4, but theyve learned from each iPhone and have redesigned and or repositioned the HW, including the antennas, with each release. Thats the nature of this business.

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post #55 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowepg View Post

perhaps. strange from the AT&T perspective, certainly.

with which do you disagree?

antenna fixed= upgrade
hotspot out-of-the-box= upgrade
reliable 3G network= upgrade
unlimited data=upgrade

With your quirky way of playing this out as some kind of AT&T pre-test for a reliable Verizon iPhone. Obviously people should go with whatever network they want to go with (and one will usually be more appropriate than the other for any number of reasons), but what you're doing is focusing on any positive element to the Verizon iPhone and ignoring any negative.

Antenna fixed? It works fine to begin with, and who knows if they've made any changes relevant to the subject anyway. At minimum we know they've redesigned for CDMA. At best they've reduced the impact of attenuation on the device, and given Consumer Reports a new way to generate some traffic.

Hotspot out the box? Could be cool! Fees associated?

Reliable 3G network: win for voice, loss for data (though both may vary depending on area). Definitely a lose for some people with the voice/data incompatibility.

Unlimited data: an upgrade for new iPhone buyers or switchers who actually use that much data (a very very small minority of users).

And locking into contract so close to the next iPhone? Might work if the plan is to skip to 2012 and possibly get an LTE device on a mature LTE network...

It's just a Verizon iPhone 4 and the small details don't amount to much of anything. It is simply marvelous news for people who wanted this choice.
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post #56 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Consumer Reports couldn't recommend the iPhone 4! So I'll leave CR's credibility to each man's opinion, just saying. CR shouldn't be the thought of as the "Gold Standard".

I am using ATT service. I have great reception and the one time I called customer service, they went well beyond "the call of duty" so to speak. I was happy with the way my situation was handled and resolved!

And I bet ATT knows math better than Verizon Math!
/
/
/

Well consumer reports is certainly not crooked, but the metrics that they use to measure some of the products they review is questionable. For most things they only use consumer surveys. Surveys are great for measuring consumer satisfaction, but since most consumers haven't used more than one or two products in a particular category, it's not the greatest way to compare two products. For the most part the products and services with the highest consumer satisfaction rates will be the best. However differences in perception and expectations can have a significant effect on consumer satisfaction rates.

Edit: I want to add that consumer satisfaction surveys are normally a good resource to use to discover good products. For the most part products with high satisfaction rates will be good products and products with low satisfaction rates will have some major problems. However I would not use small differences in consumer satisfaction to declare that one product is better than another.
post #57 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowepg View Post

perhaps. strange from the AT&T perspective, certainly.

with which do you disagree?

antenna fixed= upgrade

How was it fixed? Changing the antenna to make it work for a CDMA network is irrelevant to a GSM network. I know the carriers have set up these 2G and 3G marketing terms to make you think they are competing with other on even ground but they are using very different technologies that require different HW designs.
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post #58 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

With your quirky way of playing this out as some kind of AT&T pre-test for a reliable Verizon iPhone. Obviously people should go with whatever network they want to go with (and one will usually be more appropriate than the other for any number of reasons), but what you're doing is focusing on any positive element to the Verizon iPhone and ignoring any negative.

Antenna fixed? It works fine to begin with, and who knows if they've made any changes relevant to the subject anyway. At minimum we know they've redesigned for CDMA. At best they've reduced the impact of attenuation on the device, and given Consumer Reports a new way to generate some traffic.

Hotspot out the box? Could be cool! Fees associated?

Reliable 3G network: win for voice, loss for data (though both may vary depending on area). Definitely a lose for some people with the voice/data incompatibility.

Unlimited data: an upgrade for new iPhone buyers or switchers who actually use that much data (a very very small minority of users).

And locking into contract so close to the next iPhone? Might work if the plan is to skip to 2012 and possibly get an LTE device on a mature LTE network...

It's just a Verizon iPhone 4 and the small details don't amount to much of anything. It is simply marvelous news for people who wanted this choice.

fair points.

Viewed from the typical verizon user standpoint- the multi-tasking issue is moot.

My ONLY reservation is the risk of an LTE phonwe being annouced this Summer. But, frankly, I dont think they'd NEED to update the phone that soon. There will be millions on VZ users lined up to to buy the 3G version (methinks).
post #59 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

How was it fixed? Changing the antenna to make it work for a CDMA network is irrelevant to a GSM network. I know the carriers have set up these 2G and 3G marketing terms to make you think they are competing with other on even ground but they are using very different technologies that require different HW designs.

I think its naive to think it was only modified for cdma. This is clearly cover (for Apple) so as not to admit the desdign flaw more than it already has had to.

I believe they even challenged users to try the "deathgrip" on the new phones. Seems a pretty clear shot at the antenna-gate fiasco.
post #60 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowepg View Post

Viewed from the typical verizon user standpoint- the multi-tasking issue is moot.

It is a luxury/convenience feature which has to be used to be appreciated. Someone who hasn't found how handy it can be at times (Verizon customers) or who doesn't use the phone in conversations that would warrant it won't care.

Some people love that feature, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowepg View Post

My ONLY reservation is the risk of an LTE phonwe being annouced this Summer. But, frankly, I dont think they'd NEED to update the phone that soon. There will be millions on VZ users lined up to to buy the 3G version (methinks).

LTE is not a big loss. I think people tend to get caught up in buzz words, trends, and features, and new technology like LTE is a perfect example. It has its benefits, but when working properly, neither provider's '3G' is slow by any means. Internet browsing is quite responsive and reliable. For some it may not even be worth the tradeoff, and it certainly isn't worth the tradeoff if it results in a bulkier device or other features removed to save space.

But both providers will build up their LTE networks and the hardware will become easier for Apple to integrate, and the time will come when it is a good move to make.

Verizon does need to get the new iPhone when it is announced, though, or their customers will feel slighted (even if it is just an incremental improvement, like the 3G -> 3GS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowepg View Post

I think its naive to think it was only modified for cdma. This is clearly cover (for Apple) so as not to admit the desdign flaw more than it already has had to. [...] I believe they even challenged users to try the "deathgrip" on the new phones. Seems a pretty clear shot at the antenna-gate fiasco.

The 'antenna-gate fiasco' was an overblown ball of nonsense. When the television tells people that something is a certain thing, they tend to believe it, which is sad. There is attenuation if held in certain ways and it does have an impact on the signal, but I know not a soul in person who has been able to work this in such a way that it ruins their party (and most folks find the external antenna provides more benefit anyhow).

It is very likely that Apple has only made adjustments for CDMA. If they found an easy way to address the attenuation they'll probably have done so, but I don't expect iFixit to find special changes inside made specifically to solve this overblown problem. And it certainly won't stop the device from selling.
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post #61 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

Yes, but what happens when you are in the VAST majority of AT&T's data network that only gets EDGE

You need to word this more accurately, like, "Yes, but what happens, in my mind's negative fantasy world, when you are in the VAST majority of AT&T's data network that only gets EDGE
post #62 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowepg View Post

I think its naive to think it was only modified for cdma. This is clearly cover (for Apple) so as not to admit the desdign flaw more than it already has had to.

I believe they even challenged users to try the "deathgrip" on the new phones. Seems a pretty clear shot at the antenna-gate fiasco.

If the iPhone 4 had such a bad antenna then how are millions using those phones? Why havent they changed the antenna since last Summers debut? Why did they let it ship?

Whats naive is to think that a CDMA phone would only get different components because of a bad GSM design. Thats absurd on the face of it.
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post #63 of 73
[QUOTE=lowepg;1782281]Hmm. "You've" all been laughing? Hardly.

Most of your posts are silly, but I'll take the easy one:

Verizon users have been laughing at AT&T users for one simple thing THEY CAN handle that AT&T cant: using your phone for.....phone calls. Perhaps you are new to the internet or something and/or dont read the news- but the issue of coverage is pretty well settled- AT&T is WORST in the US. Sorry. I know its frustrating to be stuck in your 2 yr contract and need to rationalize your choice, but there it is.

To be honest, I only use my phone as a "phone" about 1/10 of the time. sad huh.
post #64 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrdavid815 View Post

Here is my recap of my experience with AT&T for the past couple of years.

1. 2007 waited 72 hours to have my phone activated after launch. (after 18 hours in line for V1)
2. 2007 went to my mailbox to make calls for most of that fall and winter
3. 2007-2010 Returned at least 10 iphones, thinking it was the device and not the service. Had every one of them
4. 2008-current: Listened to all of my staff, complain about their service after switching to all iphones for the workplace
5. Launch 2007-current: Put up with missed calls, echos, droped calls, call failed, no service, delayed texts, VM, silence and static since day 1
6. 2009: Purchased a microcell, and calls still dropped even inside the home
7. 2009: Gave up last year, went to a Verizon Droid, didn't like OS then just went back to a flip phone, but rarely ever droped a call on either one.

One positive note: data was great, put i dont need fast speeds like they advertise. I am not watching Netflix or porn outside the home. I just want to make a phone call without it dropping.

People like me just want a phone to work and the data side is just a bonus. My collegues and I dont share the same delightful experience as some customers do. Mr. T has had its chance and has shown its true colors. Cant wait for a real network to make a phone call.

Ten phones? I love this list. It reads like `it's so absurd it must be true' ad for Verizon.
post #65 of 73
[QUOTE=iancass79;1782427]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowepg View Post

Hmm. "You've" all been laughing? Hardly.

Most of your posts are silly, but I'll take the easy one:

Verizon users have been laughing at AT&T users for one simple thing THEY CAN handle that AT&T cant: using your phone for.....phone calls. Perhaps you are new to the internet or something and/or dont read the news- but the issue of coverage is pretty well settled- AT&T is WORST in the US. Sorry. I know its frustrating to be stuck in your 2 yr contract and need to rationalize your choice, but there it is.

To be honest, I only use my phone as a "phone" about 1/10 of the time. sad huh.

you only *CAN* use it 10% of the time.... yeah- thats what i hear from a lot of at&t users....

but some people want their phone to work as a phone too- not just update their facebook page...
post #66 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowepg View Post

you only *CAN* use it 10% of the time.... yeah- thats what i hear from a lot of at&t users....

but some people want their phone to work as a phone too- not just update their facebook page...

It must be easy to be right when you make up all your own facts.
Exceptthis type of 'right' exists only in your head.

Either you live in one of the most horrific AT&T service zones and your friends are, for some inexplicable reason, blaming it on their 'death grip', or you're plucking it from the depths of your [edited for the children].
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post #67 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by womble2k2 View Post

Verizon iPhone 4 has the revised antenna design, wonder if it will migrate to be the standard iPhone design.

Phil

Look, it has a different antenna design because its a different type of cellular HW. It also has buttons that are places slightly different than the iPhone 4 GSM.
I've got some more detail on the difference in antenna design on this new iPhone. As you can see from the pictures below, the good ol' death grip still attenuates signal strength on Verizon. Held normally I was getting a reading of -65 dBm on the Verizon iPhone, but in full on death grip the signal strength dropped to -83 dBm. That's in line with what we've seen on AT&T.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4125/u...4-announcement
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post #68 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

This isn't happening. It is inconceivable that Apple would release a device with fewer features than a three year old device. Verizon can "talk while surfing" with VoRA. They've been testing it since March.



.



Hrrrrrmmmm.........." a device with fewer features than a three year old device"

Giant. Fail.
post #69 of 73
I've had both AT&T(2009-current) and verizon cell(2007-2009) phone service. I have an iphone 3GS. I know that consumer reports has rated AT&T at the bottom for call quality, dropped calls, no service, text, email, and customer service. So it's not just a matter of opinion that AT&T is rated poorly.
But since as consumers we don't collectively experience a product, my current experiences with the quality of AT&T cell service aren't worse than my memory of my experiences with verizon.

I live near Chicago and was shocked to see that AT&T scored so poorly in Chicago according to consumer reports. I just wonder why my AT&T cell service hasn't been so bad, then I think maybe the service is bad comparatively, and I just don't have the frame of reference to know that it's bad.
post #70 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamme73 View Post

I live near Chicago and was shocked to see that AT&T scored so poorly in Chicago according to consumer reports. I just wonder why my AT&T cell service hasn't been so bad, then I think maybe the service is bad comparatively, and I just don't have the frame of reference to know that it's bad.

I never placed much faith in that Consumer Reports comparison.
(In large part due to the way in which they gathered/processed the data).
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post #71 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by CEOstevie View Post

Hrrrrrmmmm.........." a device with fewer features than a three year old device"

Giant. Fail.

I was wrong. Having said that, I guess I can't become a politician.

Get an AT&T iPhone if it matters to you. I have zero use for data at all.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #72 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I was wrong. Having said that, I guess I can't become a politician.


Nor will you ever get a job at AI

Kudos for admitting an error.
post #73 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Ten phones? I love this list. It reads like `it's so absurd it must be true' ad for Verizon.
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