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All prospects for an internal HP webOS largely destroyed

post #1 of 75
Thread Starter 
HP announced yesterday that it would retain its PC business while deflecting questions about the future of webOS for at least another month, but insiders note that HP has already destroyed the viability of the project moving forward internally, leaving a sale of the group its best hope for survival.

HP's announcement to keep its Personal Systems Group intact was made by its new chief executive Meg Whitman, accompanied by PSG executive vice president Todd Bradley. However, neither of the two executives offered any insight into the future of webOS.

Bradley originally assumed control of webOS when HP's $1.2 billion acquisition of Palm was rolled into his PSG last summer. HP's executives said they would make no major new announcements, including no additional decisions on webOS, before HP is scheduled to present its quarterly earnings on November 21.

"If they wait until November 21, there won't be a webOS team to do anything with," an insider within the webOS group told AppleInsider, referencing the recent, public departure of Richard Kerris, who served as HP's vice president of worldwide developer relations for webOS. After leaving HP this week, Kerris immediately joined Nokia to act in an identical role serving that company's third party developers.

HP actively bleeding webOS talent away

Kerris, along with the rest of the webOS team, had apparently been blindsided by the August 18 announcement by HP's former chief executive Léo Apotheker that the company would be "evaluating" what to do with its PSG unit, potentially selling it or spinning it off into a subsidiary.

Along with the nebulous decision by Apotheker to rid HP of its PC business, the former chief executive also abruptly killed HP's mobile hardware business and moved the webOS software group from Bradley's PSG into HP's Office of Strategy and Technology. The day after that announcement was made, Kerris emailed webOS developers, diplomatically saying "we have opened the next chapter for webOS, and we understand that you must have many questions."

The email continued, "yesterday we announced that we will focus on the future of webOS as a software platform but we will no longer be producing webOS devices. While this was a difficult decision, its one that will strengthen our ability to focus on further innovating with webOS as we forge our path forward. Throughout this journey, our developers will continue to be a vital part of the future of webOS."

Just two months later, Kerris had abandoned HP, joining the ranks of other high profile webOS team members who had left HP for its competitors, including its user interface director Matias Duarte, who joined Google to work on Android just after the HP acquisition, and the creator of webOS's notification system Rich Dellinger, who joined Apple last summer to work on the Notification Center in iOS 5.



The departure of webOS employees from HP is accelerating, reportedly in large part due to the "sheer incompetence and bureaucratic malice" of HP's management, which has made little to no effort to retain webOS talent, according to a person familiar with the webOS team's situation, who added, "HP is going to have hundreds of smart and influential people scattered throughout the Valley who will be devoted to hating HP."

Prospects for an external webOS

"HP as made many, many enemies in angry Palm employees and fans," the insider noted, adding that while HP could decide to hold onto webOS as in internal effort, "HP's credibility with developers, business partners, retailers and so on is shot, thanks to [management's incompetence]. I don't think developers would listen to us unless we got a fresh start as part of another company."

Whitman's announcement yesterday that HP had conducted a strategic review and data-driven evaluation conducted by 18 different teams who "dove deep into this" and concluded that HP should retain its PSG operations raises the questions of why the company didn't think to perform such an evaluation before making the initial announcement. Whitman had been a member of HP's board for seven months before she signed off on Apotheker's radical plans to remake HP.

At her arrival to HP's board, she was described by Douglas Ireland, an analyst at JMP Securities, as being even more inclined to back goals outlined by Apotheker than the board members who had voted to hire him as HP's chief executive, most of whom had never even met him apart from HP's current chairman Ray Lane, who described Apotheker as an old friend.

Additionally, rather than focusing on the monumental job of turning around HP, Whitman has just joined the board of directors for Zaarly. That company recently snagged $14 million from Kleiner Perkins, an investment firm Whitman acts as an advisor for and which HP chairman Lane acts as a managing partner. If there were any remaining hope that HP could get itself back on track and that webOS could play any part in that, Whitman's performance as HP's new chief executive was recently praised by John Dvorak, a prominent bellwether who always rings in the wrong direction.

The best hope for webOS would likely come from its sale to a third party. Whitman's endorsement of Microsoft's Windows 8 as HP's future tablet OS, which she referenced in noting plans for how HP was "going to take another run at this business" (without addressing HP's disastrous Windows 7 Slate PC from last year), leaves little room for imagining how HP would actually be able to use webOS itself.

HP originally envisioned not just smartphones and tablets powered by webOS, but also using the platform in the company's printers and even loading it on the tens of millions of PCs it now ships exclusively with Windows.

At the beginning of the year, Bradley announced "our commitment is to extend the WebOS experience across devices for our customers, and creating the broadest ecosystem to our partners," and mused that by loading webOS on its PCs, "You easily exceed 100 million devices with WebOS deployed annually. That's the start of something pretty big."
post #2 of 75
pity, as webOS was looking really promising..
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post #3 of 75
WebOS is loaded up with lots of good patented stuff. I'd imagine Apple could buy WebOS and the related patents for in the neighborhood of $1 Billion.

That's a few days worth of profit... and adds significantly to their arsenal to go after Google with.
post #4 of 75
Let WebOS die. It had a crappy API and JavaScript is not the right language for native mobile development.
post #5 of 75
I think HP and Netflix should merge and form one gigantic company that doesn't know what it's doing anymore.
post #6 of 75
I really would have liked HP to retain the Web OS. From what I understand it is the old Palm OS made for the Palm Pre. I think its good to have competition. Apple needs competition. I would have considered a Web OS Device if HP had not of discontinued it. In my opinion HP is a huge corp who looks at numbers. Its the thinking idea of "I don't want to be where the puc is, I want to be where it is gonna be.". HP didn't think where the put will be but where it is. HP had a good thing going. Sad indeed.
An Apple man since 1977
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An Apple man since 1977
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post #7 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

I think HP and Netflix should merge and form one gigantic company that doesn't know what it's doing anymore.

post #8 of 75
What a bunch of complete idiots! I feel bad for the webOS / webOS team / HP shareholders. Thanks to HP's idiocy they will lose a bunch of super talented people.

I really hope HP's management fails in their endeavours cuz that's what they deserve for their incompetence.
post #9 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobringer View Post

WebOS is loaded up with lots of good patented stuff. I'd imagine Apple could buy WebOS and the related patents for in the neighborhood of $1 Billion.

That's a few days worth of profit... and adds significantly to their arsenal to go after Google with.


I think that if it had any use, for or against Google, it would have been sold already. Apparently nobody wants it.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #10 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think that if it had any use, for or against Google, it would have been sold already. Apparently nobody wants it.

Don't underestimate HP's incompetence.
post #11 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinfusor View Post

Don't underestimate HP's incompetence.

HP will be shipping Windows 8 tablets. That is what 42% of Americans want.
Perfection....
post #12 of 75
1. HP PC business is low margin commodity that will not spur growth, aka IBM transition
2. Windows 7 and Windows 8 merely continue the value chain sending high margin money to Microsoft and small margin to HP
3. Apple has sucked all the air, profit, from PC, Smart phone, and Table marketst, so HP will compete on price through low profit.

The board and previous CEO had it right. Get out while you are doing OK, otherwise you will not be able exit and make money. You got money to move elsewhere but when PC market continues to be a market drag your flexibility will be gone.

Execution was terrible, WebOS was are real option but lost, etc., this decision sets HP back 2-3 years before they can make the changes they need, but they won't be as funded, credible, or postured in the market to make the changes.
post #13 of 75
deleted
post #14 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clamdigger63 View Post

HP will be shipping Windows 8 tablets. That is what 42% of Americans want.
Perfection....

Is that the percentage of people that respond affirmative to the question "do you want a windows tablet?" in interviews when they're not told that "windows tablet" means a tablet that does not look like or share any of the familiarity with windows, does not run windows apps, and has no windows, costs more than an iPad, has worse battery life, built like crap and doesn't work with iTunes?

What percentage of people actually want a zune tablet running the Windows 7 kernel?
post #15 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clamdigger63 View Post

HP will be shipping Windows 8 tablets. That is what 42% of Americans want.
Perfection....

In other news, 100% of people prefer to eat poop when asked if they would rather eat a turd or drink anti-freeze.

Windows 8 tablets are DOA. Metro UI failed on Zune, failed on Windows Phone, and somehow is going to work on a tablet? Not to mention the hardware having to run anti-virus, anti-spyware, intrusion detection, anti-<insert windows security flaw>, and a bloated Microsoft OS. yeah, sign me up for that steaming pile.
post #16 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clamdigger63 View Post

HP will be shipping Windows 8 tablets. That is what 42% of Americans want.
Perfection....

You have to be joking. The marketplace has already told. Microsucks that no one wants their tablets. That's why they have been a huge failure even after being on the market for years. There is nothing to suggest that W8 versions will fare any better.
post #17 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

In other news, 100% of people prefer to eat poop when asked if they would rather eat a turd or drink anti-freeze.

Windows 8 tablets are DOA. Metro UI failed on Zune, failed on Windows Phone, and somehow is going to work on a tablet? Not to mention the hardware having to run anti-virus, anti-spyware, intrusion detection, anti-<insert windows security flaw>, and a bloated Microsoft OS. yeah, sign me up for that steaming pile.

I actually like metro, I think it works well. It's different, its more basic, but for many people I think it will be good enough. There are millions of people who buy android not because it is good, but because it is available and affordable. Shove a Windows Phone in front of those same people and they would buy it instead of android. Plus WP is better executed than android (less of a resource hog, more design, better execution aside from nexus line).

Metro works well on xbox as well, though feels very out of place on Windows 8 (or is it the desktop environment that is out of place?)

Honestly I think MS has a chance if they execute well and actually ship some awesome hardware some time soon before android gains momentum in tablet space.
--SHEFFmachine out
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--SHEFFmachine out
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post #18 of 75
Thank gawd we never l elected Whitman for governor.
post #19 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

You have to be joking. The marketplace has already told. Microsucks that no one wants their tablets. That's why they have been a huge failure even after being on the market for years. There is nothing to suggest that W8 versions will fare any better.

95% of the world runs on windows. Don't tell me that people don't want a windows 8 tablet when they come out. I for one will be buying one and dump this piece of shit iPad that keeps closing down every 5 minutes in safari. I gave it a go, but it's just a toy for browsing and watching videos. At least with a windows 8 tablet I will be able to do some proper work.
iSheep
post #20 of 75
At a time when it's clear that the companies that advance are those with love and knowledge of technology at the top, HP chose to go with someone with a business background. How do they expect this to inspire motivation?

Too bad.
post #21 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

In other news, 100% of people prefer to eat poop when asked if they would rather eat a turd or drink anti-freeze.

Windows 8 tablets are DOA. Metro UI failed on Zune, failed on Windows Phone, and somehow is going to work on a tablet? Not to mention the hardware having to run anti-virus, anti-spyware, intrusion detection, anti-<insert windows security flaw>, and a bloated Microsoft OS. yeah, sign me up for that steaming pile.

5% mate. That's all the market share apple has. Windows 7 wasn't designed to being a tablet. Windows 8 is.
I'll leave you to your own pile of steaming. You know the overpriced fisher price toy.
post #22 of 75
What of Jon Rubinstein? Any update on his status?
post #23 of 75
that's a damn shame
i bought an HP touchpad to play with
and installled android on it
webOS is light years ahead of android
it's much nicer than the android side
it even has some cool things my ipad 2 doesn't have
hooking up your iphone via bluetooth so when you get a call you get a pop up window on the screen with the callers name and ANSWER/DECLINE
i hope someone has the brains to buy them out and realize they were the best chance in competing with iOS
and to everyone who thinks they should go down
lets not forget what happens when one company dominates an industry
look no further than Microsoft
you need competition to push companies to improve
post #24 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Why doesn't Digler provide links for his sources?

This is all info that's out there, and has been around for some time. There's nothing here that hasn't been said, in part, here and there, on dozens of other sites. Documenting this stuff would result in a dozen or more links. You can find it yourself, if you're really interested.
post #25 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clamdigger63 View Post

I'll leave you to your own pile of steaming. You know the overpriced fisher price toy.

Bye, troll. Enjoy your ban.
post #26 of 75
Idiots, eventually there's going to be some market share for the product, and while not an iPad, it can have a respectable minuscule share, even cut in to iPad users a bit if it endears itself.

I hope someone more clever and with more flair than these bozos actually buys it and puts some nice hardware to it...
post #27 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clamdigger63 View Post

95% of the world runs on windows. Don't tell me that people don't want a windows 8 tablet when they come out. I for one will be buying one and dump this piece of shit iPad that keeps closing down every 5 minutes in safari. I gave it a go, but it's just a toy for browsing and watching videos. At least with a windows 8 tablet I will be able to do some proper work.
iSheep

There have been Windows tablets for years, and almost no one ever bought them. Every time MS comes out with an upgrade to Windows, some people say that "This will be the one!". But it never is.

Metro isn't Windows. A real Windows tablet will need x86 chips, like the tablet shown earlier. That needed a mobile i5, with a fan and a heat exhaust vent. This was produced by Samsung. It's an 11.6" model, because using Windows on a smaller device is almost impossible.

So if you really want a real Windows tablet that weighs more than 2 pounds, gets hot, has short battery life, and is large, then by all means, buy a Windows tablet.

But if you're thinking Metro, you're really getting something that MS stated they wouldn't be doing, which is putting their phone OS on a tablet. They can get away with this, because they said they wouldn't put WP7 on a tablet. They never addressed WP8, which is really what Metro is. If you check it out, you will see that it uses the same programming methodology as WP7, has the same API's, updated, of course, and the same UI. Just like WP7, it doesn't allow Flash, or any other plug-ins for Internet use.

So make your choice, but remember, even x86 tablets won't work well with most Windows software.

As far as that 95% goes, it's actually 92%, but that's not the point. The real point is that it's shrinking. Apple is growing Mac sales at about 24% a year, but now Windows is mostly static. It's hardly growing at all, just a few percent, and sometimes, growth has been negative. 6 years ago, Apple had a worldwide marketshare of about 1%, but now it's close to 6%. US marketshare was down to 2.8%, and now it's around 12%. That's serious growth, and it's continuing, last quarter, it was over 26% growth.

It's the trends that matter.
post #28 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

This is all info that's out there, and has been around for some time. There's nothing here that hasn't been said, in part, here and there, on dozens of other sites. Documenting this stuff would result in a dozen or more links. You can find it yourself, if you're really interested.

Mel, does dan show up here at all?
post #29 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Bye, troll. Enjoy your ban.

Sorry I forgot the Apple way of doing things. If people don't agree ban them.
iSheep
post #30 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clamdigger63 View Post

Sorry I forgot the Apple way of doing things. If people don't agree ban them.
iSheep

You have got to be kidding...troll bots?
post #31 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

There have been Windows tablets for years, and almost no one ever bought them. Every time MS comes out with an upgrade to Windows, some people say that "This will be the one!". But it never is.

Metro isn't Windows. A real Windows tablet will need x86 chips, like the tablet shown earlier. That needed a mobile i5, with a fan and a heat exhaust vent. This was produced by Samsung. It's an 11.6" model, because using Windows on a smaller device is almost impossible.

So if you really want a real Windows tablet that weighs more than 2 pounds, gets hot, has short battery life, and is large, then by all means, buy a Windows tablet.

But if you're thinking Metro, you're really getting something that MS stated they wouldn't be doing, which is putting their phone OS on a tablet. They can get away with this, because they said they wouldn't put WP7 on a tablet. They never addressed WP8, which is really what Metro is. If you check it out, you will see that it uses the same programming methodology as WP7, has the same API's, updated, of course, and the same UI. Just like WP7, it doesn't allow Flash, or any other plug-ins for Internet use.

So make your choice, but remember, even x86 tablets won't work well with most Windows software.

You are so talking through your rear end. Do people actually listen to you or do their minds wander when you talk to them?
post #32 of 75
HP is the definition of how to not run a company.
post #33 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clamdigger63 View Post

Sorry I forgot the Apple way of doing things. If people don't agree ban them.
iSheep

How have you been allowed to exist for TEN DAYS, particularly with the content of your FIRST POST?!

Which I will reproduce here so that it may stand after you're gone as a testament to foolishness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusion Incorporated

Winston Smith sat at his desk in the Records Department of the Ministry of Truth.
A rolled newspaper article appeared in the slot by his desk. He removed the paper from the hole and carefully unwrapped the article and gazed at the headline and accompaining text.

UPDATE 5-Apple blames iPhone rumors for disappointing results
Rare disappointment, shares dive
CFO blames rumors of new iPhone, customers wait


He thought for a moment and then crossed out the text with a thick black pencil again and again. He picked up the microphone and pressed the button on the machine and said in a slow precise tone.

"Apple profits jump 54% on record sales of 4.9M Macs, 11.2M iPads"
post #34 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

There have been Windows tablets for years, and almost no one ever bought them. Every time MS comes out with an upgrade to Windows, some people say that "This will be the one!". But it never is.

Metro isn't Windows. A real Windows tablet will need x86 chips, like the tablet shown earlier. That needed a mobile i5, with a fan and a heat exhaust vent. This was produced by Samsung. It's an 11.6" model, because using Windows on a smaller device is almost impossible.

So if you really want a real Windows tablet that weighs more than 2 pounds, gets hot, has short battery life, and is large, then by all means, buy a Windows tablet.

But if you're thinking Metro, you're really getting something that MS stated they wouldn't be doing, which is putting their phone OS on a tablet. They can get away with this, because they said they wouldn't put WP7 on a tablet. They never addressed WP8, which is really what Metro is. If you check it out, you will see that it uses the same programming methodology as WP7, has the same API's, updated, of course, and the same UI. Just like WP7, it doesn't allow Flash, or any other plug-ins for Internet use.

So make your choice, but remember, even x86 tablets won't work well with most Windows software.

You are so talking through your rear end. Do people actually listen to you or do their minds wander when you talk to them?
They are not putting their phone OS on tablets. Where do you get your information from?
post #35 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

Idiots, eventually there's going to be some market share for the product, and while not an iPad, it can have a respectable minuscule share, even cut in to iPad users a bit if it endears itself.

I hope someone more clever and with more flair than these bozos actually buys it and puts some nice hardware to it...

The rumor is that Nikon is interested in buying WebOS. I have no idea why they would want it. They have no interest in phones or tablets. They don't make printers. There's no point in putting this into cameras, those are very specialized real time OS's. But, that's the latest word.
post #36 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clamdigger63 View Post

You are so talking through your rear end. Do people actually listen to you or do their minds wander when you talk to them?
They are not putting their phone OS on tablets. Where do you get your information from?

What is it with these trolls and insulting moderators recently? You'd think they'd be able to tell that's not a good idea.

Though he is partially right; I don't know of any Windows Phone 7 tablets…

Though now I see that melgross wasn't even attempting to insinuate that at all.
post #37 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

How have you been allowed to exist for TEN DAYS, particularly with the content of your FIRST POST?!

Which I will reproduce here so that it may stand after you're gone as a testament to foolishness.

Allowed to exist. Think they tried the same philosophy in Nazi Germany.
Geo-stationary is that supposed to impress people. Did someone buy you a dictionary from Christmas. Are you a big boy now? Get to wear big boy pants and even do number ones and twos on your own?
post #38 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clamdigger63 View Post

You are so talking through your rear end. Do people actually listen to you or do their minds wander when you talk to them?
They are not putting their phone OS on tablets. Where do you get your information from?

You don't know anything, do you? Go to the PC sites, and read some of the articles wise guy. Maybe you can even learn something about computers?
post #39 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You don't know anything, do you? Go to the PC sites, and read some of the articles wise guy. Maybe you can even learn something about computers?

Are we talking pcs or fisher price Mac toys?
post #40 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clamdigger63 View Post

Allowed to exist. Think they tried the same philosophy in Nazi Germany.

Yay! Godwin's Law! I win!

Quote:
Geo-stationary is that supposed to impress people.

Yay! Ad-hom attacks! I win!

Quote:
Did someone buy you a dictionary from Christmas.

Yay! A personal vocabulary below that of my own in fifth grade!

Quote:
Are you a big boy now?

Keeps getting better!

Quote:
Get to wear big boy pants and even do number ones and twos on your own?

And the icing on the cake.

BRAVO! You've gone out on a high note!

NOW GET OUT.
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