CNN investigates Foxconn iPad factory conditions, Apple responds - Page 3

If someone so chooses to work those hours, then they should have the right to (and try to be compensated for it if that's their motivation). I have no problem with that, and nor should anyone judge them for choosing to live that way.

The key word here is "choice". It should be a choice, not an expectation. And that's where the problem here lies: in many cases, if people don't choose to work those kind of hours, someone else will be hired in their place. Either that or they won't make enough money to survive.

So there really is no choice in the matter. It's becoming the expected way of living for the average person in more and more cases.

She makes $1 an hour for extremely menial labor.

Do you know anyone who would want that job if they "brought it to America"?

I see your point, but, that's one of the downsides of being a big company, and it's also a way that society can drive change that is beneficial to peoples lives. If Apple are pressured into pressuring Foxconn, Foxconn will do something. If one of Foxconns much smaller customers tries to pressure them, Foxconn will ignore them and willingly lose the business.

It's probably not "fair" that Apple are placed with that additional responsibility, but it's the nature of the beast and it's probably better they have that problem than they go back to being a tiny player that nobody cares about what they do.

Since when does CNN care about factory workers in China?

because most people who don't know any better probably think these are apple employees at apple factories. Just like when people say an apple product is "made in China". No, look at the back of an iPhone. It says "assembled in China", not "made in China". Probably 80-90% of the product is made elsewhere, it's just assembled in China.

Apple will not - cannot - solve this problem. The fact of the matter is that it is not Apple's problem - no matter how much people want to blame them. Nor do I necessarily agree that there even is a problem to discuss. Thousands of people voluntarily work these jobs. Thousands more wait in lines to get these jobs. What problem?

Now compare cost of living in China with that in the U.S., say in California, New York or Rhode Island.

Just a side note: Back when "banker's hours" meant they closed at three in the afternoon, I worked for a bank's back office where the all the day's deposits were received. They had to be collected, delivered, counted, reconciled and sent to other banks by midnight every day but Friday, else credit had to be given for checks regardless of whether we could verify them or not. Because of this (and other reasons) we had a little quirk called mandatory overtime. You could opt out once per year. It was repetitious and dull - kind of like assembly-line work. If one couldn't hack it one left the job, but it paid well and had benefits. It paid my way through college. Many of my co-workers were immigrants, and it paid for homes for their families. I guess I'm thinking about it because a friend told me unions would have fixed that problem, and I was thinking "What problem?"

Really! I agree.
All these idiots going off on Apple and the poor Chinese like it's Apple's fault because they are RICH!!! Etc etc etc.

Wake up and smell the thermonuclear war. Who is behind this sudden interest in Chinese labor? I mean, this story was old two years ago. You wouldnt have anything electronic in your house if not for this factory. Apple uses the minority amount of their capacity. Etc etc etc

GOOGLE. Hedge Funds. Up to their usual malarkey. Yet, all they can find is this?? Be expecting another phoney big story soon, cause this one just won't do the job. What job? Depends. The hedge funds want another chance to get in AAPL at a low price.

Google wants a meme to tar Apple with and hopes to make them unpopular.

Nothing to see here.

You already pay more for Apple products, what's a little more going to do? You'll still dish out the cash.

Is that really true? Is the US standard of living eroding because of the global market? I don't think you can count the depression that occurred because of the house market issue as proof that is because of the global market of using foreign labour to make good that Americans wouldn't want to do.

Would you buy an iPhone it cost over $1000 out of pocket yet still required a 2-year contract because it was subsidized? I know I wouldn't. I'd still with the one I have now or jump to a company that made a good product overseas.

And look at the standard of living in the US. I think it's better now than just a few decades back because of technology. I can buy a HDTV in pharmacy/general store for a few hundred dollars and connect to aerial HD content without the need for paying for cable/sat. I'm not that old buy I remember when even SD TVs cost a lot more for a lot less TV. Luckily I don't have to but I would rather live today at minimum wage than 20 years ago at that same wage.

I bet you aren't ALLOWED to live in a ramshackle hut either. Building codes. Unless you camp out in the woods. But then you'd be breaking more laws somehow. It costs a lot more to live in an industrialized country...with building codes. I bet when you figure it all up the working poor here have a similar proportion of 'disposable' income.

I am really suspicious of this sudden interest in the 'poor Chinese worker'j.
A lot of you want to tell Apple what to do or where to go with their pile o cash. The 'give us a dividend dammit!' crowd is getting mighty loud.

How do you know what plans Apple might have that involve needing every penny of that money? Suppose they did bring back some jobs, would you shut up then? My god that money is burning a hole in other people's pockets!

Just watch. Apple will do something amazing again. WHEN the time is right.

It's Walmarts fault.

Spot on, as always. You have a knack for getting the bigger picture out there. Thank you.

I'd love to look at your buying patterns and see how you lead by example, i.e., by buying the more-expensive US-manufactured products when higher-quality, less-expensive, foreign-manufactured products are at your fingertips.

But from your email, I'm sure that that's exactly what you do.

If the yuan is floated without any currency controls in place and higher Chinese labor costs coupled with sky-high oil prices make it cheaper to manufacture in America, then you'll probably see a big chunk of those manufacturing jobs returning to America.

There are a number of looming factors that can trigger another tectonic shift. I think China knows this and thus, is milking the global capitalist system at full throttle before it finds itself at a disadvantage. Multinational corporations chase profits, and this drove them to China. If it becomes more profitable for a multinational to produce in America than in Asia due to the aforementioned hypothetical conditions, then they'll make a beeline to America.

CNN (and others) have recently picked up on these stories to hit an emotional nerve with the American public about working conditions for people who assemble Apple products in China. Apple is a true American story of humble beginnings and spectacular success in the face of adversity. But if there's one thing Americans love just as much as the underdog, it's knocking the Big Dog off his pedestal. Apple just reported one of the greatest quarters in HISTORY. FOR ANY INDUSTRY. The fact that they did that in the midst of increased competition from Android and an economic recession is stunning. What better way to generate Ad revenue than some sensational articles suggesting that Apple's blowout profits are tied to oppressing Chinese factory workers.

Apple's already done one hell of a job making money for us shareholders. They've also done a hell of a job becoming a more eco-friendly company. I have every bit of confidence they'll find an Apple solution to this as well. To those who want Apple to do more to foster job creation here at home, I'd ask - What company has done MORE than Apple to foster secondary job creation in the US? They've given developers the Mac and iTunes App stores to profit from their talents. They're rolling out iBooks author to give authors the same opportunity. The iTunes store itself has given Indie artists the opportunity to profit from their work without being indentured servants to a record label. They have a massive retail presence that provides thousands of other US jobs. And of course, they do employ a few people at their headquarters in Cupertino. Apple's been outstanding at creating jobs for those driven enough to take advantage of the opportunities they've provided...

Actually $1 is a 20.48% increase over 83 cents. (.17/.83)

Does China have minimum wage laws or worker's rights? If not, get on China to improve their citizen's standard of living. Apple is far from the only company using Foxconn.

What a joke - no context whatsoever on working conditions and the costs and progress of economic development - aka capitalism - in China, or other countries. It is totally worthless "journalism" to go to a country like China, barely 25 years into its capitalist - industrial development phase, and hold it to standards of smaller, western developed countries with over 100 years or pretty horrendous stories of the human cost of industrialization. BTW - workers in China routinely swamp Apple production facilities looking for jobs because as bad as conditions seem, they are better than elsewhere. Another BTW, my father routinely worked 60+ hours a week, as a pharmacist, at as many as three jobs, to raise a small family in a small town in Connecticut the 60's.

Just for some context, "Going Postal," crushing unions, toxic spills, stealing workers pensions, etc. etc. All made popular by the "richest" nation in the world, the good old USA.

This type of reporting simply fuels prejudice and hostility - it is destructive and an insult to readers.

For the average person, I believe it has eroded in the past 25 years. I'd have to find the link, but I'm sure I've seen a statistic which shows that, accounting for inflation in cost of living, the average person is making less today than they did in the early 1980s. And I'm fairly certain people are working more hours these days.


Yet I remember a time when a Macintosh cost around $5k, and people who really wanted one would find a way. They would just forgo other things to do it.


I don't think it's possible to live decently in most major cities these days (thinking New York, LA, San Francisco, etc) working for minimum wage and only 40 hours a week.

Well, ok -- if you don't have kids and are willing to either live in a tiny rathole in the worst part of town, or live with a few roommates in a cramped apartment. You certainly won't have a few hundred extra dollars to spend on an HDTV if you're living that way though.

Bet you didn't do 60 hours of repetitive labor sitting in one chair.

What we need to remember is that America is made up of primarily consumers. It also has unskilled/semi-skilled people out of a job.

But there are, for better or worse, many more consumers than there are out-of-work factory folks.

We need to choose wisely. we get a very good economic deal by outsourcing labor. But we pay in other ways.

What can be done right now is to encourage all the American manufacturers who use foreign labor to do more to improve conditions there.

And here, we need to do the jobs that illiterate peasants cannot do. We can't race them to the bottom for robot-work.

Or standing in one place in an assembly line repeatedly setting the same component in place 1000x an hour.

That is exactly right, IMO. In the grand scheme of things, it would cost Apple very little.

For example, if 100 of the processes used in iPad manufacturing were to cost 10 cents more, Apple would have additional costs of $10. But 10 cents more for every screen polish, every battery insertion, every snapping together the outside case, and the supplier(s) could easily create better conditions for the workers.

IMO, Apple should do some sort of huge PR blitz about hos they are taking proactive steps to improve conditions. The can and should be a leader. Most of their customers would like that.

I wonder if CNN would be reporting her plight if she was only getting 20 hours a week instead of the 40 hours promised because she worked for the Dell Streak division, or the Motorola Xoom division or the Samsung Galaxy Tab division!
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All good points. The problem seems to be industry-wide.

But Apple is getting the attention, because their brand has such power.

Apple needs to step up, and fast. I think that they likely will.

When I used to live in Iowa, I spent 3 years working for United Natural Foods, the supplier for Whole Foods and several other organic groceries. We worked 4 10 hr days, which was nice, but you also had to stay until all the trucks were loaded. I'd been there 9 months when they closed another warehouse and we took on their orders. They misjudged how many people they would need and we suddenly spiked to working minimum 12 hour days, usually 13 or 14. Luckily I wasn't there the few Thursdays they hit 15 or 16 hours as I worked Sun-Wed. You spent your first day off basically recuperating from those 4 days in a row. It paid pretty well tho all things considered. It wasn't easy work, but it could have been a lot worse. We did have a union too.

Mandatory overtime isn't fun, but you know upfront it is a part of the job. Now it's possible Foxconn neglects to tell people then springs it on them, but most likely it gets mentioned earlier and people are just happy to get jobs so they say sure and figure it just means a few extra hours now and then.



Not really. There is no infrastructure to support the level of manufacturing that occurs over in China here in America anymore. A lot of places that used to have a bunch of manufacturing facilities now have strip malls and McDonald's where they once stood. It would be a concerted effort, large upfront expenditures and there would have to be a sea change in a number of different public policies here in the US to bring those jobs back



Which is funny b/c Apple has been practically the ONLY company stepping up for the last few years and they are always the ones who get attacked over this. What other major tech corporation is part of the Fair Labor Association? Oh yeah, nobody.

Yes, how horrible, a 60 hour work week! I must be a vile animal for looking at all of the available facts and noticing that the working conditions are just fine. Clearly, an informed "animal" is much more enlightened than an ignorant liberal such as yourself.

If I'm an "animal", what does that make Apple and yourself? You are the one who is financing such horrid work conditions with all of your Apple purchases and Apple is the one who is paying billions to Foxconn so that they can "abuse" their slave labor.

You should go out and protest in front of an Apple store sometime, to show your true outrage. I don't contract any of those workers, Apple contracts Foxconn, which in turn hires the workers.

Hypocrite much?

These are Factory Towns. The employer's costs include dorm space, meals, hot water, etc.

It would not advantage the employer to double the labor force. Likely that is the reason.

Here in the US, there used to be many such arrangements with workers, largely in the extractive industries. I'm not sure whether Foxcon's workers are selling their souls to the Company Store or not.

Standing (or sitting) in one place in an assembly line repeatedly setting the same component in place 1000x an hour is what is needed to put together as many iPads to meet demand. Are you saying Americans will or will not do that type of work?
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Reporters and money-grubbing dramatists alike are failing to report that Foxconn originally had an "incentive program" for employees to commit suicide: a sizable fortune paid in compensation to each family of a suicide victim. The company eliminated these massive payments and (surprise!) the suicides stopped. But who wants to ruin an entertaining story?

Bullshit.

McDonalds and Nike are each stronger due to their scrutiny. It is good business for Apple to concentrate harder on this very real issue, and devise a solution that makes things better for both Apple and for everyone else.

Plenty of companies get huge mileage by being conspicuously "Green". Apple likely will make "Good Labor Conditions" the new Green.

The Made in Detroit folks could easily capitalize on that too.

It is common practice in the US for companies to demand OT for their hourly workers. In many cases if you are excempt the demands are even greater with no pay. Even at that 60 hors a week isn't a lot, it amounts to ten hours a week six days a week.

As far as going out to eat at a restaurant I'm not even sure why that is brought up, mst factory workers in the US have a hard time doing that and frankly might not do so at all if they have kids at home. I do think the reporting here shows a heavy bias and a bit of ignorance because if you work in a factory in the US conditions are very similar.

All we really have here is a bunch of liberals, that have never worked a day in their lives, trying to harm Apple for their own greedy needs. Instead they should be looking at why The work ethic in this country has dried up an what their part in that degeneracy is. It is through industry that a country gains strength, the liberal drive to off shore any sort of activity that is dirty, dangerous or simple requires manual labor is not good for the country.

I hope that they do not care. They should be dispassionate about the subjects they report on.

That being said, no media outlet is dispassionate about everything. instead, they care a whole lot about one thing - advertising revenue. With few exceptions, everything they do is geared towards driving ad revenue.

And I hope that their choice of stories is not driven largely by what they "care about". They are there to serve the viewers what they want, and not for reasons of bias or propaganda (except on the editorial type shows).

That's astounding. If Apple can pull off something great with Siri, they will be fulfilling a promise first dreamed of decades ago.

In many cases people working in these factories are massively improving their standard of living. This is something many in e US can't even grasp, people flock to Foxconn factories because it is an improvement in their lives. In many cases it is a significant step up from living off the land and eating bugs.

As to the overtime what do you think would happen if a product is more successful than expected? I've worked in different places in the US for over 30 years now and the story is always the same if something sells better than expected expect some overtime. Really people think about it how do you meet demand otherwise? Long term you build another production line but short term your options are really limited to overtime and improved processes.

Don't worry. The prejudice and the hostility resulting from such ignorant reporting (CNN, NYT) will be somehow blamed on Apple too.

Some of you guys are missing the whole point of the problem. Go read more than just one story if you want to comment on how correct this problem is. The New York Times would be a good start.
Would you allow you son or daughter to work in these conditions? Apple and FC agreed to install nets on the outside of the buildings to stop the suicide drops! The main problem or complaint is that Apple puts a huge demand of FC to produce a certain # of devices a day and they demand the rock bottom price. In other words, Apple asks the premium price of there products but fights tooth and nail to not pay anything to the suppliers. I believe that is called greed.

I'm all for making a profit. I'm a business owner myself, employing over 200 people. There have been many times I would have liked to purchased parts and supplies for a cheaper price but chose not to because of the negatives of doing so.

Just my .02!

That is a 60 hour work week on a hourly wage. You can't compare a salary position to hourly. Some of you guys are so blinded by your love for Apple it is amusing.

Yes, FC makes products for many other companies. Those other companies are not making the demands upon FC as Apple does. This is the jest of the entire problem!

Apple is a business first and foremost as I said Apple's responsibility and ability to IMPROVE WORKING CONDITIONS in other lands like China is extremely LIMITED--these stupid media is actually BARKING ON THE WRONG TREE--they should bark on the Chinese government to LEGISLATE stronger LAWS TO PROTECT THEIR OWN CITIZENS! Since Apple contributes gazillions of dollars to the Chinese economy, so the CHINESE GOVERNMENT in turn should ensure that their citizens are well-protected and NOT exploited!