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Microsoft says Surface screen outperforms iPad Retina display - Page 2

post #41 of 150

Don't look at the man behind the curtain folks. There is nothing to see there.

 

The way Panasonic solved the "screen door effect" for the pixalization problem on their Projectors was to make the picture "fuzzy". 

 

Think of smearing Vaseline on your eyeglasses.

post #42 of 150
1) this thing is still vapor ware until someone actually gets to use one.
2) this claim of "many people see more detail" is bullshit.
3) just get the thing out the door and stop talking about how awesome it's going to be.
post #43 of 150
Sorry Bomber, that train left for that station two years ado...yawnn..go away now. Come back when yours is implantable..
post #44 of 150

This, my friends, is called "spin".

 

Steve Bathiche: "ClearType allows us to simulate a higher resolution than is actually possible on Surface and this simulation higher resolution is actually a higher than Apple's ACTUAL higher resolution. We don't know how we managed to change the laws of physics but our math indicates we have."

post #45 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Buy the real computer Surface. It doesn't come with Office.


Heck, the tablet CPU Surface doesn't even have it, either. It's just a partial release preview ("full" Office available for free "when it's done").

The final "full" version for Windows RT will be released in November, from what I've been reading. The version for x86 will be officially released, early next year

post #46 of 150

Is this guy serious?! 😆

post #47 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

The old "baffle em with bullshit" technique. 1smile.gif
I must admit Microsoft's marketing of the Surface is excellent. Despite the fact that it's an over-priced PoS, you would never know it from the ads and marketing materials which actually make it look like a desirable "next-gen" kind of product. I think a lot of folks will be buying these.
Of course they will be sorely disappointed with the reality of the device, but that comes after the purchase.

Did you see the ad?
The surface looked like a brick to me.
The eerie image of the 'schoolchildren dancing' is difficult to forget.

J.
post #48 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

The old "baffle em with bullshit" technique. 1smile.gif
I must admit Microsoft's marketing of the Surface is excellent. Despite the fact that it's an over-priced PoS, you would never know it from the ads and marketing materials which actually make it look like a desirable "next-gen" kind of product. I think a lot of folks will be buying these.
Of course they will be sorely disappointed with the reality of the device, but that comes after the purchase.

"Despite the fact that it's an over-priced PoS,..."

 

Actually, when you compare apples to apples the Surface is competitively priced.  For $599, you get 32GB of storage, Touch Cover / keyboard, Office Home & Student Edition for Windows RT.  A $599 iPad gets you Retina Screen, 32GB of storage, no productivity software, no smart cover / keyboard. This is a great solution for college students that want a tablet or device that's highly portable and need to crank out reports using Office & collaborate / share those documents with other students.

post #49 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Buy the real computer Surface. It doesn't come with Office.


Heck, the tablet CPU Surface doesn't even have it, either. It's just a partial release preview ("full" Office available for free "when it's done").
So how much space does the "full version" take up? Funny how Microsoft nor anyone else footnotes that 32GB is really only 20GB or so of free space. With iPad the pre-installed software takes up, what, maybe 2GB of storage?
post #50 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by robogobo View Post

1) this thing is still vapor ware until someone actually gets to use one.
2) this claim of "many people see more detail" is bullshit.
3) just get the thing out the door and stop talking about how awesome it's going to be.

2) when true, is pretty lame in itself.

J.
post #51 of 150

Apple at MS' lunch long ago. It's too late for Redmond. 

post #52 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

Did you see the ad?
The surface looked like a brick to me.
The eerie image of the 'schoolchildren dancing' is difficult to forget.
J.

I agree it was eerie in parts. I kept thinking if they'd used the nursery rhyme, A pocket full of posies and slowed the video playback speed down, they whole ad would have taken on a Steven Kingesque quality ...
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #53 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shameer Mulji View Post

"Despite the fact that it's an over-priced PoS,..."

Actually, when you compare apples to apples the Surface is competitively priced.  For $599, you get 32GB of storage, Touch Cover / keyboard, Office Home & Student Edition for Windows RT.  A $599 iPad gets you Retina Screen, 32GB of storage, no productivity software, no smart cover / keyboard. This is a great solution for college students that want a tablet or device that's highly portable and need to crank out reports using Office & collaborate / share those documents with other students.
Pre-loaded software on the Surface uses up ~12GB. I'll be interested to see how easy it is to use Office on Surface vs on a lasptop/Ultrabook. From what I've read Office isn't really optimized that well for touch.
post #54 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Since when has iWork been pre-installed on iPads? I don't think I can purchase Surface without Office.

There's a reason for that. That it's an MS Office equipped tablet is the only real selling point of the Surface. That's why it has a keyboard and a touchpad as well, because they're hoping to sell this as something that people who absolutely need *proper* Office, but think a tablet might be quite nice as well. The keyboard and touchpad reveal this thing for what Microsoft really want it to be: a small laptop, they haven't really jumped into the whole Tablet idea with both feet yet.

post #55 of 150
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
So how much space does the "full version" take up? Funny how Microsoft nor anyone else footnotes that 32GB is really only 20GB or so of free space. With iPad the pre-installed software takes up, what, maybe 2GB of storage?

 

And Microsoft still reports gibibytes as gigabytes, so they'll see even more loss.

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post #56 of 150

Microsoft has now officially confirmed that we live in a Matrix.

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post #57 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post

So... in other words, Microsoft admits that their display is lame and that they are still relying on the philosophy that "users are stupid" (something I was taught taking classes for MCSE cert.).
Cleartype meaning a certain boldness and shadow to the font. wow. Crazy.
I'd prefer a display that doesn't need nasty looking fonts, thank you.
And then talking about reflections? As if their display is better because of reflections?
Seriously?
The sad thing is when you have a Scarface and put it next to the iPad, the Retina Display, the MS product looks like donkey doo.
But then, MS will start extolling the virtues of donkey doo...

 

I disagree that ClearType makes Surface superior to RetinaDisplay, but your commentary is just pedestrian and ignorant.

 

ClearType is not about boldness and shadow. Nor is it about "nasty looking" font, thank you.

 

Reflection does matter. Seriously.

 

The sad thing is that you cannot talk about what donkey doo is because you have not looked at Surface and iPad side by side. My bet is iPad with RD is superior but your ignorance makes me wish I was wrong.

post #58 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shameer Mulji View Post

...  For $599, you get 32GB of storage, Touch Cover / keyboard, Office Home & Student Edition for Windows RT.  A $599 iPad gets you Retina Screen, 32GB of storage, no productivity software, no smart cover / keyboard. ...

Productivity software on an iPad cost only a few dollars and is really ... productive, and you can buy it now.
The keyboard is included, it's a virtual one, and that's the whole point of a tablet.
Did you see the surface keyboard in the ad? It looked bulky and maybe suitable to defend yourself against armed attackers.

J.
post #59 of 150

It hasn't even been released yet and they already feel a need to talk pseudo physics bullshit. This would make even die hard Windows apologists wince.

post #60 of 150

What else can MS say? It sucks compared to Retina display? This is just marketing crap.

post #61 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I agree it was eerie in parts. I kept thinking if they'd used the nursery rhyme, A pocket full of posies and slowed the video playback speed down, they whole ad would have taken on a Steven Kingesque quality ...

Your right, I was thinking MJ thriller, but Steven King is better.

J.
post #62 of 150

Cleartype? You mean the text smoothing gimmick introduced in Windows XP? And this is why the screen is better than iPad's retina display?

post #63 of 150

Typical MS marketing hype, much like MS Lync (overhyped, under delivers), the Surface is more hyperbole from MS.  They should embrace the MS bigots in big corporations as their only hope for unloading these tablets, the consumer world is going to reject it convincingly.  

post #64 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

The eerie image of the 'schoolchildren dancing' is difficult to forget.
 

 

You mean this one? ;¬)

 

 

post #65 of 150
The interesting thing here is that the rumoured iPad "mini" will have a 1024x768 resolution with the difference being on the widescreenedness of it. The PPI of this budget iPad will also be higher than the MS Surface about 10% and yet the MS Surface its priced to compete with the iPad (3) more than halfway through its release cycle.

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post #66 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post



The eerie image of the 'schoolchildren dancing' is difficult to forget.
J.

That was the image that bothered me as well.

post #67 of 150
It's a creepy Stephen King film, alright - "The MiSt."
post #68 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon_PhoneApart View Post

That was the image that bothered me as well.

Of the entrée video, as busy at it is, that single creepy part stood out to me, too.

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post #69 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Since when has iWork been pre-installed on iPads? I don't think I can purchase Surface without Office.

 

he was trying to make a like for like comparison


WInRTinc Office = 14gb

iOS + iWorks software = ?? gb

 

both are taking space from their advertised capacities, 32gb is never, ever, 32gb of user accessible space.

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post #70 of 150
Unless this ClearType technology is magical in a way normal Windows 8 ClearType technology is not, it is inferior to the font-smoothing and resampling capabilities that have been in OS X (and iOS) for a while now. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it is the same technology as found in Windows 8. Also, even if it was just as good, it can't automatically make up for a lower resolution.
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post #71 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post

 

I disagree that ClearType makes Surface superior to RetinaDisplay, but your commentary is just pedestrian and ignorant.

 

ClearType is not about boldness and shadow. Nor is it about "nasty looking" font, thank you.

 

Reflection does matter. Seriously.

 

The sad thing is that you cannot talk about what donkey doo is because you have not looked at Surface and iPad side by side. My bet is iPad with RD is superior but your ignorance makes me wish I was wrong.

You get a lot of those types of opinions here, unfortunately.  While I don't think Surface will in anyway compete with iPad, I do think they're pretty nice.  MS has some good ideas - at least they're being original.  The kickstand is creative (you have to buy Apple's Smartcover to get that), and having the rear-camera angled is thoughtful.  The display on Surface won't be nearly as good as iPad 3, but they do give you some extra hardware goodies at least in the form of a USB port, microSD slot and HDMI-out.  In the end it will all come down to the quality and quantity of software/apps MS is able to provide and how quickly.  Personally, I think they're way too late to seriously challenge Apple.  I think it will be fun to watch them try, though.

post #72 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post

There's a reason for that. That it's an MS Office equipped tablet is the only real selling point of the Surface. That's why it has a keyboard and a touchpad as well, because they're hoping to sell this as something that people who absolutely need *proper* Office, but think a tablet might be quite nice as well. The keyboard and touchpad reveal this thing for what Microsoft really want it to be: a small laptop, they haven't really jumped into the whole Tablet idea with both feet yet.

I totally agree with what you said.  Considering the amount of people that use Office, I'm sure there are many people who want a device like this - enterprise users and college students being two groups of people.

post #73 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshmaker View Post

You get a lot of those types of opinions here, unfortunately.  While I don't think Surface will in anyway compete with iPad, I do think they're pretty nice.  MS has some good ideas - at least they're being original.  The kickstand is creative (you have to buy Apple's Smartcover to get that), and having the rear-camera angled is thoughtful.  The display on Surface won't be nearly as good as iPad 3, but they do give you some extra hardware goodies at least in the form of a USB port, microSD slot and HDMI-out.  In the end it will all come down to the quality and quantity of software/apps MS is able to provide and how quickly.  Personally, I think they're way too late to seriously challenge Apple.  I think it will be fun to watch them try, though.

"While I don't think Surface will in anyway compete with iPad....."

 

Make no mistake, this is definitely going to compete head-to-head with the full-sized iPad.  MS is not hiding that fact.

 

"Personally, I think they're way too late to seriously challenge Apple."

 

I don't agree.  The mobile device war is just starting to heat up.  Even though tablet sales are growing faster than traditional pc / laptop sales, they don't make up more than 20% of the overall pc / device market.  There's a lot of room for growth and for more than one player.  

post #74 of 150

This:

 

 

Quote:
"Doing a side by side with the new iPad in a consistently lit room, we have had many people see more detail on Surface RT than on the Ipad (sic) with more resolution," he wrote.

 

sounds counterintuitive, and cringeworthy excuse. But it might not be entirely impossible to pull off a perceptual prank on the human brain.

 

There are a couple of ways to tweak a lower resolution display to appear to have a higher resolution: assuming the photos are exactly the same and contain sufficient resolution. I'm assuming that they didn't display the photos at 1:1 ratio between photo pixels and display pixels. They probably took a full sized photo (12-24MP for typical DSLR) and allowed the device's software to scale the photo down to fit the device's screens. Depending on the algorithm used, this downscaling can affect the perceived sharpness of the image. If Microsoft boosted the contrast, or even applied tricks such as unsharp masking to the image as part of the downscaler, it would create the perception of "more detail." People perceive "detail" when there's high frequency changes in the luminance channel, so it could be something as simple as Microsoft's downscaler subsampling (as opposed to averaging the luminance of neighboring) pixels.

 

Either way, it sounds like the same arguments that we heard when Samsung swore PenTile = more resolution. Let it go, Microsoft. You don't have a retina display.


Edited by Suddenly Newton - 10/17/12 at 2:24pm

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post #75 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Don't forget the hundred bucks extra for the keyboard.  1smile.gif


Because, clearly, iPad has 32GB left for your own stuff after you've installed iWork and counting the iOS...
That's such a dishonest argument. You ought to say that ipad takes ~9GB OS+iWork where the (more complete) Office, Windows and the .Net environment take 14GB, saving ineffect space that is "stolen" on iOS by code that's uneeded on Windows due to ... .Net environment.
Understand me well: I won't get Surface, iPad is clearly superior. I'm just taking that argument you raised as not good enough.

I think your figure for iOS is wrong! i have a 64 GB iPad 3... I just checked and it says the capacity is 57.2 GB after the iOS. So, instead.of ~9 GB OS it is <7 GB for IOS 6.

One could also argue that iWorkis usable on an iPad whereas MS Office is not usable on the Windows RT Surface
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post #76 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogJack View Post

You mean this one? ;¬)



Yep.
post #77 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traisoon View Post

Why can't they let media to hands-on the surface before start selling to public.

They need to get sales locked in before the reviews come out that it blows

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post #78 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


I think your figure for iOS is wrong! i have a 64 GB iPad 3... I just checked and it says the capacity is 57.2 GB after the iOS. So, instead.of ~9 GB OS it is <7 GB for IOS 6.
One could also argue that iWorkis usable on an iPad whereas MS Office is not usable on the Windows RT Surface

That depends on how you define usable.  If by usable you mean, that the app was written from the ground up to take advantage of the multi-touch UI, then yes iWork more than likely is more usable than Office on RT, even though Office will have a touch mode. If by usable you mean functionality, then I disagree.  I have yet to see any other productivity software out there (with the exception of Keynote) that can the functionality of Office. Remember too, the version of Office for Windows RT is not watered down.  It has nearly all of the features of the standard version minus some enterprise specific features.  And you will be getting that for free.

post #79 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post


Because, clearly, iPad has 32GB left for your own stuff after you've installed iWork and counting the iOS...

You think the Surface is 32gb AFTER Windows 8 etc is installed?

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post #80 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

 

he was trying to make a like for like comparison


WInRTinc Office = 14gb

iOS + iWorks software = ?? gb

 

both are taking space from their advertised capacities, 32gb is never, ever, 32gb of user accessible space.


Correct.  A 32 GB iPad reports having a "Capacity" of 28 GB.  iOS then takes up some of that space.  All considered though, the Surface RT initial load does look bloated in comparison.

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