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The Fiscal Cliff: Will House Republicans cave on taxes? Will anyone actually cut spending? Have... - Page 6

post #201 of 238
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post
That's not what it is.  But thanks for your opinion.  

 

False. 

 

Tell me who proposes that. I don't know any politician on either side who proposes that.  

 

Afghanistan was unnecessary?  And the economy was in strife when Iraq started?  And those are the prime contributors to our deficit and debt?  

 

I assume then that you are arguing that higher taxes on the wealthy will create economic growth and prosperity?  

 

Psssst! SDW! The broadside of the barn is over that a way.1wink.gif

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #202 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Psssst! SDW! The broadside of the barn is over that a way.1wink.gif

 

Your posts and non-dicussions are now bordering on spam.  Goodbye. 

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #203 of 238
Thread Starter 

Barack Obama, 2006:

 

 

Quote:
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a Sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here'. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and Grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

 

Barack Obama, 2013:

 

 

Quote:
"To even entertain the idea [of not raising the debt ceiling], it's absurd."

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #204 of 238

On this, I wonder I could ask a few questions.

 

Should the debt ceiling not be raised, what are the true implications of such a move? All we ever hear (well, are told) is "the government effectively shuts down", which is far from the entire truth. So what really is cut, what really is dropped, and who really doesn't get to go to work, if anything/one?

 

Additionally, should the executive branch choose to circumvent the legislative and raise the debt ceiling:

 

Its legality is already being called into question, but should it be done, would actual legal action (or an inquiry or what have you) be undertaken? Would it be recognized internationally? Would it be recognized domestically by Wall Street?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #205 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Barack Obama, 2006:

 

 

 

Barack Obama, 2013:

 

 

 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/debtlimit.asp

 

 

Quote:

President Obama has undergone a change of heart regarding raising the debt limit. In a 15 April 2011 Good Morning America interview, President Obama said this of his reasons for doing so: 

 

I think that it's important to understand the vantage point of a senator versus the vantage point of a president. When you're a senator, traditionally what's happened is, this is always a lousy vote. Nobody likes to be tagged as having increased the debt limit — for the United States by a trillion dollars. As president, you start realizing, you know what, we, we can't play around with this stuff. This is the full faith and credit of the United States. And so that was just an example of a new senator making what is a political vote as opposed to doing what was important for the country. And I'm the first one to acknowledge it.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #206 of 238
Thread Starter 
It appears that "can't play around with this stuff" in Obama's mind means keep spending more and more, not offering any substantial spending cuts in the face of reaching the debt limit and trying to force Congress to do what he didn't want to. So he's disingenuous, duplicitous scumbag who changes his mind when it suits his purposes. Got it.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #207 of 238

Or he makes a politically calculated protest vote when there is no chance of the debt ceiling not passing, but doesn't take kindly to those sorts of votes when there is a real chance that the US can default.  

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #208 of 238
Thread Starter 

toe-may-toe / toe-mah-toe

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #209 of 238

Sure, if yours isn't a tomato, but is rather a red balloon filled with hydrochloric acid that you are attempting to pass off as a tomato.

 

A no vote when you know something will pass (like Ron Paul and his "perfect earmark record") is one thing.

 

A no vote when you may actually prevent something from passing is a different beast.


Edited by BR - 1/14/13 at 2:26pm

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #210 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Sure, if yours isn't a tomato, but is rather a red balloon filled with hydrochloric acid that you are attempting to pass off as a tomato.

 

A no vote when you know something will pass (like Ron Paul and his "perfect earmark record") is one thing.

 

A no vote when you may actually prevent something from passing is a different beast.

 

Your justification of this is absolutely laughable.  This is the same guy who called $9 Trillion in debt "unpatriotic."  This is the guy that railed against the debt limit going up.  A protest vote that didn't matter....LOL.  Anything to excuse the fact that he's nothing a partisan hack.  lol.gif

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #211 of 238

One vote will do nothing.

 

One vote will destroy America's credit rating and possibly take down the world economy.

 

Yes, those votes are surely equal.  No, I'm not being sarcastic at all here.  These are completely identical situations.  There can't possibly be any real difference between the two.  Nope.  None.  Zero difference.  

 

 

M8sNz.gif

 

Yup, no difference.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #212 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

One vote will destroy America's credit rating and possibly take down the world economy.

 

It is fun watching you carry water for a failed presidency.

 

You were relentless with conservatives on the board when Bush was spending money like a drunken sailor (even though you knew we objected to it), so though I prefer solutions over partisanship, I need to point out that seeing you and Tonton constantly having to defend a drone-happy, amateurish President who refuses to properly account for your nation's fiscal situation is somewhat satisfying. Sorry for the nation though.

 

President Oblunder put his name forward as someone who would deal with your country's problems. The U.S. Presidency is an opt-in position. Everyone knew your country was in budgetary distress, as were many parts of the world. O's lofty speeches included promises to fix broken public institutions and processes.

 

He hasn't even tried. He doesn't bother with minute details like budgeting. Since his (first) election he's placed blame for everything on the previous administration. The fact that four years after he was elected you can say "one vote will destroy America's credit rating and possibly take down the world economy." is a stunning admission of his complete failure.

 

Why, BR, does America vote on a debt ceiling measure when it is too late to do anything other than raise it?

The deck is obviously stacked in favour of those who profit from government borrowing.

Is this not the type of broken process O was elected to fix?

 

Can you point to any attempt by your preferred administration to deal seriously with the deficit and U.S. debt?

Was four years of no budgets, increased spending and partisan rhetoric supposed to heal the world economy? Calm investor anxiety?

 

You personally favour severe reductions in military spending and increases in taxes on "the wealthy" to remedy the debt situation. That's a fair choice, even if it's mathematically dubious to assume that alone could begin to solve America's fiscal woes. Has Obama ever presented the nation with a comprehensive plan that shows that this is a worthy budgetary strategy, or that four years later, the problem is getting better?

 

Why haven't the markets, international financial institutions and credit agencies - which employ legions of analysts to cut through political nonsense - figured out that the world's biggest economy is on the right track?

 

Why is America "one vote away from destroying its credit rating" four years into Hope and Change?

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #213 of 238

In your little essay there, you neglected the four years of unprecedented obstructionism from the opposition party.  

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #214 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

In your little essay there, you neglected the four years of unprecedented obstructionism from the opposition party.  

 

Typical nonsense straight from Obama White House Talking Points.

 

Republican presidents produced budgets with a Democratic Congress for decades, but Obama's budget gets laughed out of Washington by a vote of 99-0, and you have the gall to claim "unprecedented obstructionism from the opposition party".

 

That's 99 to zero. Zero. Zero. Zero.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #215 of 238

Ah, that thing again.  Republican Jeff Sessions of Alabama proposed a "budget framework" loosely based on the Whitehouse proposals, yet without any of the specifics.  It was a purely political move.  So, no, Obama's budget wasn't voted down 99-0.  Republican Jeff Session's dumbass imitation was.  

 

Of course, you swallowed it and won't stop parroting this nonsense.  It's expected of certain low information voters (or observers).

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #216 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

One vote will do nothing.

 

One vote will destroy America's credit rating and possibly take down the world economy.

 

Yes, those votes are surely equal.  No, I'm not being sarcastic at all here.  These are completely identical situations.  There can't possibly be any real difference between the two.  Nope.  None.  Zero difference.  

 

 

M8sNz.gif

 

Yup, no difference.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

In your little essay there, you neglected the four years of unprecedented obstructionism from the opposition party.  

 

Yes, obstructionism.  I'm sure he bears no blame for the first two years of his term, where he had total control.  And I'm sure the 2010 elections were just about partisanship, not about a reaction to unmitigated failure.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Ah, that thing again.  Republican Jeff Sessions of Alabama proposed a "budget framework" loosely based on the Whitehouse proposals, yet without any of the specifics.  It was a purely political move.  So, no, Obama's budget wasn't voted down 99-0.  Republican Jeff Session's dumbass imitation was.  

 

Of course, you swallowed it and won't stop parroting this nonsense.  It's expected of certain low information voters (or observers).

 

lol.gif  Only you could blame the GOP for not passing a budget in a chamber they don't control.  Only you could justify the WH breaking the law.    Unreal...this guy hasn't even TRIED to pass a budget since he's been President, and now he wants "balanced" deficit reduction.   But hey, it's all GOP's fault.  If they would just cave and tax the living sh** out of everyone and cut the military, everything would be fine.  Right?  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #217 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Ah, that thing again.  Republican Jeff Sessions of Alabama proposed a "budget framework" loosely based on the Whitehouse proposals, yet without any of the specifics.  It was a purely political move.  So, no, Obama's budget wasn't voted down 99-0.  Republican Jeff Session's dumbass imitation was.  

 

Of course, you swallowed it and won't stop parroting this nonsense.  It's expected of certain low information voters (or observers).

 

It's still telling that no Democrat would vote for a budget that was based on Obama's proposals.

 

Of course, this discussion would be moot if Obama had gotten a budget passed himself. But you're clearly willing to excuse his incompetence on this.

 

Care to explain why?

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #218 of 238

Here's a budget of x dollars and a subset of A, B, C, D, E, F, and G dollars are set aside for specific programs.  

 

Here's a budget of x dollars with no provisions.

 

There's a huge difference.  The fact you can't understand that is what is really telling.  The fact you don't understand the obstructionism and the unprecedented use of the filibuster is further telling.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #219 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Here's a budget of x dollars and a subset of A, B, C, D, E, F, and G dollars are set aside for specific programs.  

 

Here's a budget of x dollars with no provisions.

 

There's a huge difference.  The fact you can't understand that is what is really telling.  The fact you don't understand the obstructionism and the unprecedented use of the filibuster is further telling.

 

The fact that you pretend that's why there has been no budget is what's telling, actually.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #220 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Here's a budget of x dollars and a subset of A, B, C, D, E, F, and G dollars are set aside for specific programs.  

 

Here's a budget of x dollars with no provisions.

 

There's a huge difference.  The fact you can't understand that is what is really telling.  The fact you don't understand the obstructionism and the unprecedented use of the filibuster is further telling.

 

Please explain how GOP "obstructionism and the unprecedented use of the filibuster" prevents the Executive Branch from presenting a budget to Congress in a timely fashion, as required by your country's constitution.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #221 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

In your little essay there, you neglected the four years of unprecedented obstructionism from the opposition party.  

 


What was it again that that guy Mitch said?

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #222 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post



What was it again that that guy Mitch said?

What was it again that that guy Barack said?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #223 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

 


What was it again that that guy Mitch said?

 

He said something that opposition politicians in almost every country are expected to say.

 

The only reason you guys have latched on to it is that your president has been shown to be utterly incompetent, and you need a scapegoat.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #224 of 238
post #225 of 238

 

While I have no problem with chopping business subsidies, I find it hilarious that you think this is some sort of key development.

 

Oil companies will simply hike prices to reclaim the revenue, so it's not 'free' money.

And Obama will wear the rise in prices, which is why it hasn't been done before.

 

But by all means, kill all business subsidies. At all levels of government.

If we could stop Toronto's left wing from subsidizing their vote-buying 'cultural investments', we'd be a much richer city.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #226 of 238

Maybe Reid will also cut the subsidy for feeder airline servicing small airports. 

 

lol.gif

post #227 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Here's a budget of x dollars and a subset of A, B, C, D, E, F, and G dollars are set aside for specific programs.  

Here's a budget of x dollars with no provisions.

There's a huge difference.  The fact you can't understand that is what is really telling.  The fact you don't understand the obstructionism and the unprecedented use of the filibuster is further telling.

Since this is a thread about tax you should include Matthew 22:21 in your sig. "Render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's" which is another thing Republicans don't do.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #228 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Since this is a thread about tax you should include Matthew 22:21 in your sig. "Render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's" which is another thing Republicans don't do.

 

Who owns you and the product of your labors?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #229 of 238
Thread Starter 

Well whaddyaknow...my taxes went up.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #230 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Who owns you and the product of your labors?

Unless you make money it is not a product of your labor.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #231 of 238
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Unless you make money it is not a product of your labor.

 

What?!

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #232 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Unless you make money it is not a product of your labor.

 

???

 

Can you please clarify?

 

I take your statement to mean that if I, for example, fashion a wooden flute out of a piece of wood, it is not a product of my labor unless I sell it.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #233 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

???

Can you please clarify?

I take your statement to mean that if I, for example, fashion a wooden flute out of a piece of wood, it is not a product of my labor unless I sell it.

Your labor produced a flute, so the flute is the product, and will be so whether you sell it or not. Now if you do sell it then you owe taxes on that income.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #234 of 238
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Your labor produced a flute, so the flute is the product, and will be so whether you sell it or not. Now if you do sell it then you owe taxes on that income.

 

The income...which is a product of the labor. You seem to have skipped that whole part.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #235 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

The income...which is a product of the labor. You seem to have skipped that whole part.

But you sold the flute, which means someone does own the product of your labor which negates your quote.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #236 of 238
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


But you sold the flute, which means someone does own the product of your labor which negates your quote.

 

Yes. They own the flute, and you own the money they gave you. Do you not get this?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #237 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Yes. They own the flute, and you own the money they gave you. Do you not get this?

But then what do you do with the money? You buy something. Does then that become the product of your labor?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #238 of 238
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

But then what do you do with the money? You buy something. Does then that become the product of your labor?

 

Indirectly, yes. All that's happening is that, through trade, you're just changing the form of the product.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › The Fiscal Cliff: Will House Republicans cave on taxes? Will anyone actually cut spending? Have $1T deficits become the new norm?