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Prisoners Revolt In Gaza.

post #1 of 157
Thread Starter 

Recent timeline of the major events-

 

 

"THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 8

Following a two-week lull in violence, Israeli soldiers invade Gaza. In the resulting exchange of gunfire with Palestinian fighters, a 12-year-old boy is killed by an Israeli bullet while he plays soccer.

Shortly afterwards, Palestinian fighters blow up a tunnel along the Gaza-Israel frontier, injuring one Israeli soldier.

SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 10

An anti-tank missile fired by Palestinian fighters wounds four Israeli soldiers driving in a jeep along the Israel-Gaza boundary.

An Israeli artillery shell lands in a soccer field in Gaza killing two children, aged 16 and 17. Later, an Israeli tank fires a shell at a tent where mourners are gathered for a funeral, killing two more civilians, and wounding more than two dozen others.

SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 11

One Palestinian civilian is killed and dozens more wounded in Israeli attacks. Four Israeli civilians are also injured as a result of projectiles launched from Gaza, according to the Israeli government.

During an Israeli government cabinet meeting, Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz urges the government to “cut off the head of the snake… take out the leadership of Hamas in Gaza.” He also calls for a cutting off of water, food, electricity, and fuel shipments to Gaza’s 1.7 million people.

MONDAY, NOVEMBER 12

Palestinian militant factions agree to a truce if Israel ends its attacks.

WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 14

Israel breaks two days of calm by assassinating Ahmed Jabari, the head of Hamas' military wing. According to reports, at least eight other Palestinians are killed in Israeli attacks, including at least two children. Palestinian militant groups vow to respond."

http://mondoweiss.net/2012/11/two-new-resources-timeline-of-israeli-escalation-in-gaza-and-israels-history-of-breaking-ceasefires.html

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #2 of 157

Alternate thread title: Israel has had enough of Hamas lobbing rockets into towns.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #3 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Alternate thread title: Israel has had enough of Hamas lobbing rockets into towns.  

Israel is criminal in its treatment of the Palestinians. They steal their land, bulldoze their houses, and kill their children in defense of their right to do so. Every time a rock is thrown back in defiance, they fire a gun. Any time a gun is fired in defiance, they fire a rocket. Any time a rocket is fired in defiance, they bring in the helicopters.

In a karmic next life, you're going to be born as one of the oppressed, and only then will you understand how it feels. The rest of us are born with an element of empathy.
post #4 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post


Israel is criminal in its treatment of the Palestinians. They steal their land, bulldoze their houses, and kill their children in defense of their right to do so. Every time a rock is thrown back in defiance, they fire a gun. Any time a gun is fired in defiance, they fire a rocket. Any time a rocket is fired in defiance, they bring in the helicopters.
In a karmic next life, you're going to be born as one of the oppressed, and only then will you understand how it feels. The rest of us are born with an element of empathy.

 

And in your next life, you'll get blown up in a pizza shop along with your family.  See how easy that was?  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #5 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Israel is criminal in its treatment of the Palestinians. They steal their land, bulldoze their houses, and kill their children in defense of their right to do so. Every time a rock is thrown back in defiance, they fire a gun. Any time a gun is fired in defiance, they fire a rocket. Any time a rocket is fired in defiance, they bring in the helicopters.

In a karmic next life, you're going to be born as one of the oppressed, and only then will you understand how it feels. The rest of us are born with an element of empathy.

And in your next life, you'll get blown up in a pizza shop along with your family.  See how easy that was?  

Actually, I won't. I will have good karma in my next life. Of course Palestinians never get blown up in a pizza shop. They can't afford pizza shops, so they get shot playing soccer on a dirt lot. And you seem to continue to ignore the fact that almost every time a peace treaty is violated, it's the Israelis doing the violating. And you seem to be continuing to ignore the one-sided body count in this conflict as well.
post #6 of 157

Israel has to defend it's country from these people who want Israel really not to exist as a nation. Israel does not PLAY AROUND when their safety and security is at stake.Look at the countries which surrounds them.They have to exist! They really will never be peace in the Middle East now that Egypt has Mubarack deleted from power and this new president  you really cannot trust.
 

post #7 of 157

Egypt should just take over gaza. Oh wait they don't want them either.

post #8 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post


Actually, I won't. I will have good karma in my next life. Of course Palestinians never get blown up in a pizza shop. They can't afford pizza shops, so they get shot playing soccer on a dirt lot. And you seem to continue to ignore the fact that almost every time a peace treaty is violated, it's the Israelis doing the violating. And you seem to be continuing to ignore the one-sided body count in this conflict as well.

 

lol.gif OK. 

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #9 of 157
Thread Starter 

Israel is losing.

 

"Brutal and hateful" is now how most people with senses, view Israel. With a shot of "that's sick" thrown in.

 

It's time to enter the modern era Israel with some decency, or face the most severe consequences.

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #10 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Israel is losing.

 

"Brutal and hateful" is now how most people with senses, view Israel. With a shot of "that's sick" thrown in.

 

It's time to enter the modern era Israel with some decency, or face the most severe consequences.

 

I personally think that a "nation" who elects the terror group Hamas to run the show is sick.  I think those who deliberately target innocent civilians with suicide bombers and rocket fire are sick.  I find people who think these are defensible actions because they don't like Israel's policies to be sick.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #11 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Israel is losing.

"Brutal and hateful" is now how most people with senses, view Israel. With a shot of "that's sick" thrown in.

It's time to enter the modern era Israel with some decency, or face the most severe consequences.

I personally think that a "nation" who elects the terror group Hamas to run the show is sick.  I think those who deliberately target innocent civilians with suicide bombers and rocket fire are sick.  I find people who think these are defensible actions because they don't like Israel's policies to be sick.  

Just out of curiosity, what's the body count in this latest outbreak of violence?

I think it's a sick **** who doesn't care and who thinks those Palestinian kids had it coming.
post #12 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post


Just out of curiosity, what's the body count in this latest outbreak of violence?

Body counts are irrelevant. 

 

It doesn't matter one bit if the kill ratio is 1000 to 1. The higher they are, the better, as that means more Hamas terrorists are being wasted, and that's the whole point now, isn't it? This isn't a silly game, it's war, and war is what Hamas wants, and that's exactly what they should get. Hamas should be thanking Israel for giving them what they want.

 

It's also quite telling that the OP was posted 1 day and 14 hours ago, and not weeks and months ago when Hamas was firing off hundreds and hundreds of rockets into Israel. Nobody cared about that apparently. It's only when Israel finally says "enough is enough" and they decide to defend themselves that certain people are quick to wake up and criticize Israel. Who cares about what these people think? Their opinions have no bearing on the situation and they are incapable of stopping the current ass kicking that Hamas will be receiving. I've stocked up on extra popcorn, as I have a hard time imagining what could be more entertaining and rewarding to watch on tv. Screw those lame reality TV shows, what is more reality TV than an actual war where actual worthless bad people aka terrorists are dying? lol.gif

 

I agree with the American General Tommy Franks when he said "We don't do body counts", in reference to Iraq. Who cares how many enemies are killed? The whole point is to waste as many of them as possible. General Patton also had a nice quote "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." 1biggrin.gif

 

I am against all Jihadist terrorists worldwide and I support anybody who wages war against them. Hamas are primitive clowns who are anti-women, anti-gay, anti-american, anti-jew, anti-democracy and they should be obliterated from the face of the earth. They are a threat to all civilized people worldwide, and there can never be any peace with any of them. The solution is quite simple, they must be destroyed. 

 

Since 9/11, I support war on all Islamo-fascist terrorists worldwide on all continents, as there can never be any peace with such beings. 

 

 


Edited by Apple ][ - 11/17/12 at 1:57am
post #13 of 157

I am glad you are for Israel. This nation deserves to exist in peace not war all the time.
 

post #14 of 157

Israel can never win with the antisemitic left.

post #15 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post


Just out of curiosity, what's the body count in this latest outbreak of violence?
I think it's a sick **** who doesn't care and who thinks those Palestinian kids had it coming.

 

Just out of curiosity, how do you defend the following?  

 

  • Deliberately targeting innocent men, women and children to accomplish one's aims.  
  • Firing rockets into known civilian areas for the above purpose
  • Stationing rockets next to playgrounds so they serve as shields 
  • Using children as suicide bombers; training them from an early age to hate Jews.  

 

 

tonton, we can debate all day about Israel's actions...whether they go to far, whether their use of various tactics of justified, whether they should return to the pre-1967 borders, whether the Palestinian civilian casualties are way too high, etc.  But there is no debate that the Hamas et al deliberately target innocent civilians for murder.  Not just soldiers.  Not just a resistance to what they view as a military occupation.  They DELIBERATELY KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE to achieve their goals.  That's called terrorism.  There is no justification whatsoever for their actions.  Given the choice between terrorists (who were actually elected by the populace in many cases) and a flawed democratic ally, I choose the flawed ally every time.   

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Israel can never win with the antisemitic left.

 

I don't know what else it could be.  The bottom line is that no matter how wrong one thinks Israel might be in its actions, there is no justification for terrorism.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #16 of 157
In the past week, at least eight Palestinian children have been killed.

Eight. Children.

CHILDREN.

If you think they deserve to die for being born on the wrong side of the fence, or if you think their mothers, their fathers, their brothers and sisters should just take that up the ass without the only kind of resistance they're capable of, then you deserve to be in jail.
post #17 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

In the past week, at least eight Palestinian children have been killed.
Eight. Children.
CHILDREN.
If you think they deserve to die for being born on the wrong side of the fence, or if you think their mothers, their fathers, their brothers and sisters should just take that up the ass without the only kind of resistance they're capable of, then you deserve to be in jail.

 

1.  I don't think they "deserve to die."  

2.  How many mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers have been killed DELIBERATELY, tonton?  

 

You're completely off the reservation on this one.  You're equating accidental civilian deaths with deliberate murder of civilians.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #18 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

In the past week, at least eight Palestinian children have been killed.
Eight. Children.
CHILDREN.
If you think they deserve to die for being born on the wrong side of the fence, or if you think their mothers, their fathers, their brothers and sisters should just take that up the ass without the only kind of resistance they're capable of, then you deserve to be in jail.

How many jews were killed? 1) You don't give a ****. 2) Not enough.

post #19 of 157
Thread Starter 

Here's a beautiful little kid full of life-

 

Omar Misharawi (Jihad Misharawi, via Paul Danahar. Courtesy: Washington Post)

 

Here's his father-

 

BBC journalist Jihad Masharawi carries his son’s body at a Gaza hospital. (Courtesy: Associated Press)

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #20 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Here's a beautiful little kid full of life-

 

Elections have consequences.

post #21 of 157

It could have been an Israeli child also.It works two ways there when you are fighting to survive.
 

post #22 of 157

Gaza started this first and now must face the music.
 

post #23 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Gaza started this first and now must face the music.
 

Interesting interpretation of history... Israel forced the Palestinian's into the Gaza Strip in 1948, as Palestinians fled the Israeli army and Jewish terrorist groups such as Irgun and Lehi. In 2006, after Hamas succeeded in democratically run elections, Israel imposed economic and trade sanctions against the Palestinian National Authority, severely curtailing the transport of medicine, food, building materials, denying access to fishing grounds and controlling Gazan airspace.

 

Gaza is the 5th most densely populated region in the world. HE munitions, no matter how accurately targeted, WILL cause civilian casualties. The Israelis know this, so Palestinian civilian deaths caused by Israeli airstrikes or artillery are as deliberate as any Israeli killed by Palestinian rocket attacks. 

 

And if you want to bandy casualty numbers about, during the Israeli incursion into Gaza in 2008/2009: total of 1,100-1,400[ Palestinians and 13 Israelis were killed in the 22 days of fighting. The conflict damaged or destroyed tens of thousands of homes,] 15 of Gaza’s 27 hospitals and 43 of its 110 primary health care facilities, 800 water wells, 186 greenhouses, and nearly all of its 10,000 family farms. This resulted in leaving leaving 50,000 homeless, 400,000-500,000 without running water,  one million without electricity, and created acute food shortages.

 

 

 

 

post #24 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by groakes View Post

This resulted in leaving leaving 50,000 homeless, 400,000-500,000 without running water,  one million without electricity, and created acute food shortages.

 

So what? It's all their own doing. 

 

The people in Gaza voted for Hamas, they voted for terrorism and war. Nobody can whine when things go bad for them afterwards. They got what they wanted. Nobody's forcing Hamas to fire off rockets into Israel or wage war. They should consider themselves extremely lucky that Israel hasn't flattened the entire area of Gaza.

 

And Israel didn't force anything in 1948. You conveniently left out the fact that a horde of invading Arab armies attacked Israel and they lost. And they've kept on trying in the decades after that, and every time they lose, things get worse for the aggressors and the so called palestinians. Sounds like a great strategy. lol.gif

post #25 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

 

So what? It's all their own doing. 

 

The people in Gaza voted for Hamas, they voted for terrorism and war. Nobody can whine when things go bad for them afterwards. They got what they wanted. Nobody's forcing Hamas to fire off rockets into Israel or wage war. They should consider themselves extremely lucky that Israel hasn't flattened the entire area of Gaza.

 

And Israel didn't force anything in 1948. You conveniently left out the fact that a horde of invading Arab armies attacked Israel and they lost. And they've kept on trying in the decades after that, and every time they lose, things get worse for the aggressors and the so called palestinians. Sounds like a great strategy. lol.gif

 

You conveniently left out the fact that expulsions of Palestinians, driven by Israeli terrorists, had begun as early as November 1947 which is 6 months the commencement of the first Arab/ Israeli War. Just because Israel says they possess the moral high ground doesn't necessarily make it so!

 

And as for voting for terrorism and war, allow me to quote from the Lehi underground newspaper He Khazit (The Front ) and an article entitled "Terror":

 

 

Quote:

Neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat. We are very far from having any moral qualms as far as our national war goes. We have before us the command of the Torah, whose morality surpasses that of any other body of laws in the world: "Ye shall blot them out to the last man." But first and foremost, terrorism is for us a part of the political battle being conducted under the present circumstances, and it has a great part to play: speaking in a clear voice to the whole world, as well as to our wretched brethren outside this land, it proclaims our war against the occupier. We are particularly far from this sort of hesitation in regard to an enemy whose moral perversion is admitted by all.

 

Edited by groakes - 11/19/12 at 7:40am
post #26 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by groakes View Post

 

You conveniently left out the fact that expulsions of Palestinians, driven by Israeli terrorists, had begun as early as November 1947 which is 6 months the commencement of the first Arab/ Israeli War. Just because Israel says they possess the moral high ground doesn't necessarily make it so!

And you conveniently left out the fact that there were also "palestinian" and arab attacks against Israeli settlers before the establishment of Israel.

 

The fact remains that Israel won, the Arabs didn't succeed in driving the Jews out to the sea, and yet they keep trying again and again, with worse results each time for the "palestinians". Their "holy war" has been a laughable failure. But they should keep it up, maybe they'll have better results next time, or maybe not.lol.gif

post #27 of 157

I'm still waiting for the left to condemn Egypt for closing the border with Gaza. If only Egypt were ruled by Jews maybe we'd hear some?

post #28 of 157

Typically, the American public (through no fault of its own) are not getting the picture here - just a biased, filtered, ersatz version that the US knee-padded corporate weasel-media is serving up. The Israeli press is far more open-minded and clear: This article in the mainstream Israeli news site Haaretz explains the situation with a little bit more maturity and balance than the one-sided 8th-grade verbal diarrhea from Fox, CNN, BBC, etc

 

 

 

Quote:

Ahmed Jabari was a subcontractor, in charge of maintaining Israel's security in Gaza. This title will no doubt sound absurd to anyone who in the past several hours has heard Jabari described as "an arch-terrorist," "the terror chief of staff" or "our Bin Laden." 

 

But that was the reality for the past five and a half years. Israel demanded of Hamas that it observe the truce in the south and enforce it on the multiplicity of armed organizations in the Gaza Strip. The man responsible for carrying out this policy was Ahmed Jabari.

 

The truce had been holding more or less for 5 years. Obviously that was not good enough for hardcore Israeli leader Netanyahu and the Likudists; their ultimate aim in Gaza is to displace the inhabitants of the strip and have the area - prime Mediterranean beachfront property, developed with luxury hotels and golf courses etc. Then there is the issue of the natural gas deposits not far from the coast of Gaza. But why would the Israelis assassinate their own subcontractor, a man percieved by the Gazans to be a leader? Its obvious - such a killing would infuriate the Gazan militants to retaliate - playing right into the hands of the Israelis. Not reported in the US media is the fact that IDF units near the border of Gaza have been firing missiles into unpopulated areas of Israel, to explode harmlessly, making it appear that Hamas are firing randomly, and more frequently than is the case.

 

One has to hand it to the Israelis for winning the propaganda the media war hands down. Militarily, of course, there is no contest.  Of course, the Israelis have an eager and willing audience in America - who have been indoctrinated into the notion that all Palestinians (and all Arabs, Muslims, Persians, whatever) are terrorists, inferior versions of humanity and follow an inferior religion. 

 

There is a popular conspiracy theory about "pushing the Israelis into the sea"...of course a lot of talk and no action. What Israel is doing however, is the equivalent of that. If the world wasn't watching, Netanyahu, who fits the psychological profile of a sociopath (at best), and his goons would be herding Palestinians into trains....  and Hillary Clinton, the neocons, AIPAC etc etc. etc. would be having a good belly laugh about it.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #29 of 157

1biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Typically, the American public (through no fault of its own) are not getting the picture here - just a biased, filtered, ersatz version that the US knee-padded corporate weasel-media is serving up. The Israeli press is far more open-minded and clear: This article in the mainstream Israeli news site Haaretz explains the situation with a little bit more maturity and balance than the one-sided 8th-grade verbal diarrhea from Fox, CNN, BBC, etc

 

 

 

 

The truce had been holding more or less for 5 years. 

 

Unlike most Arab/Muslim countries and terrorist groups, Israel has a free press, and Haaretz is a far left wing news paper, so citing it as a source doesn't give it any more credibility, just because it's an Israeli newspaper. In Israel, there are many varying sources of news, including the far left view, which Haaretz represents. The far left has zero credibility, especially when it comes to issues regarding war and terrorism. The far left is also where one finds all of the terrorist sympathizers and supporters.

 

The truce had been holding more or less for 5 years. 

 

Thousands of rocket attacks does not qualify as "the truce had been holding more or less for 5 years".lol.gif

 

Hamas is currently getting a good ass kicking, and frankly, there's nothing that any leftists can do about it.1biggrin.gif

post #30 of 157

groakes:  

 

 

Quote:
Gaza is the 5th most densely populated region in the world. HE munitions, no matter how accurately targeted, WILL cause civilian casualties. The Israelis know this, so Palestinian civilian deaths caused by Israeli airstrikes or artillery are as deliberate as any Israeli killed by Palestinian rocket attacks

 

I read the rest of your post, but I took none of seriously after the above comment.  Anyone who equates terrorism with accidental civilian deaths is not to be taken seriously.  Period.    

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #31 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

groakes:  

 

 

 

I read the rest of your post, but I took none of seriously after the above comment.  Anyone who equates terrorism with accidental civilian deaths is not to be taken seriously.  Period.    

 

Deliberately timing airstrikes to coincide with the time that Gazan kids were heading home from school, on buses or walking in the streets can barely be described as "accidental deaths", or ensuring "minimal civilian casualties". More lies and phony, sanctimonious moralizing BS from Netanyahu and his goons.

 

However, all you those Zionist right-wing terrorist sympathizers start blowing fuses at the notion that your precious Israel and its IDF are no better than terrorists, common thugs and murderers.... which describes their MO to a tee. Just because they are supported, by default, by the US government does not get them off the hook, or give them the moral high ground. 

 

Israel has a very long history of being perpetrating, aiding and abetting, or being accessory (before and after the fact) to massacres, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, apartheid and acts of terrorism. They have flouted UNSC resolutions on many dozens of occasions, with absolute impunity, only to carry on with the same behavior. They even attacked a US ship knowing full well the identity of that vessel, killing 34 and wounding US 174 sailors... with total impunity... such demonstrates the extraordinary power and reach of the Israeli lobby in Washington DC.

 

Iraq was bombed into the stone age in a war (losing >1,000,000 of their population) based on known lies and trumped up charges, for the benefit of Israel - which had a cadre of their citizens in senior positions in the Bush 2001 Administration - people whose first loyalty is towards Israel and *not* the United States. What happened to Iraq and their people, for NOT having any weapons of mass destruction (known full well by the US intelligence services and government), Israel gets away with, for being in actual POSSESSION far more than what Iraq was falsely accused of.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #32 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

In the past week, at least eight Palestinian children have been killed.
Eight. Children.
CHILDREN.
If you think they deserve to die for being born on the wrong side of the fence, or if you think their mothers, their fathers, their brothers and sisters should just take that up the ass without the only kind of resistance they're capable of, then you deserve to be in jail.

How many jews were killed? 1) You don't give a ****. 2) Not enough.

 


As of yesterday? Three.

 

Now. Think about that.

 

I do give a F. Anyone killed is too much.

 

But three vs. 80 killed? You're an evil, evil person if you think that's okay.

post #33 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

 


As of yesterday? Three.

 

Now. Think about that.

 

I do give a F. Anyone killed is too much.

 

But three vs. 80 killed? You're an evil, evil person if you think that's okay.

Sounds ok to me. It's a war, there is supposed to be a winner and a loser, otherwise it doesn't come to a proper conclusion.

post #34 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

groakes:  

 

 

 

I read the rest of your post, but I took none of seriously after the above comment.  Anyone who equates terrorism with accidental civilian deaths is not to be taken seriously.  Period.    

 

Seriously? How can you consider indiscriminate killing of civilians as something other than terrorism. Terrorism has always been an Israeli tactic - let me re-quote from the Lehi underground newspaper He Khazit (The Front ) and an article entitled "Terror":

Quote:

Neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat. We are very far from having any moral qualms as far as our national war goes. We have before us the command of the Torah, whose morality surpasses that of any other body of laws in the world: "Ye shall blot them out to the last man." But first and foremost, terrorism is for us a part of the political battle being conducted under the present circumstances, and it has a great part to play: speaking in a clear voice to the whole world, as well as to our wretched brethren outside this land, it proclaims our war against the occupier. We are particularly far from this sort of hesitation in regard to an enemy whose moral perversion is admitted by all.

 
 

 

But then again, American's generally have little understanding of the nature of war. They haven't seen their cities in flames and their people slaughtered and their infrastructure and society torn apart in living memory. War is something the US wages at a distance on foreign soil.

post #35 of 157

You are dead wrong Israel has to survive and this lousy Hamas is getting involved with Palestine each time something happens.Gaza started these missile strikes a few weeks ago.People are dying there in Israel all the time and what is your opinion about that? Mostly every country has defended Israel position to defend itself against these brutalities by the Palestinians.Even Obama has which he is right!
 

post #36 of 157

Not saying that Israel shouldn't survive. Just saying that the Palestinians deserve some justice.

post #37 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by groakes View Post

 

Seriously? How can you consider indiscriminate killing of civilians as something other than terrorism. Terrorism has always been an Israeli tactic - let me re-quote from the Lehi underground newspaper He Khazit (The Front ) and an article entitled "Terror":

 

 

 

Israel does not "indiscriminately kill civilians."  Hamas does.  You have not a leg to stand on here.  The Israeli's are engaging in military operations where civilians get killed.  They, however, are not the target.  By contrast, Hamas deliberately kills civilians.  

 

 

 

Quote:
But then again, American's generally have little understanding of the nature of war. They haven't seen their cities in flames and their people slaughtered and their infrastructure and society torn apart in living memory. War is something the US wages at a distance on foreign soil.

 

Do the children in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem understand war?  How about the victims of suicide bombers?  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by groakes View Post

Not saying that Israel shouldn't survive. Just saying that the Palestinians deserve some justice.

 

Do they also deserve accountability for electing a terrorist organization to lead them?  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #38 of 157

Here's a few quotes from "The Israel Lobby" byJohn Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt

 

 

On the theft of Arab land:

Quote:
The fact that the creation of Israel entailed a moral crime against the Palestinian people was well understood by Israel's leaders. As Ben-Gurion told Nahum Goldmann, president of the World Jewish Congress:
 
"If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does
that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?"

 

On the use of force against civilians:

Quote:
During the first intifada (1987-91) the IDF distributed truncheons to its troops and encouraged them to break the bones of Palestinian protestors. The Swedish "Save the Children" organization estimated that "23,600 to 29,900 children required medical treatment for their beating injuries in the first two years of the intifada," with nearly one-third sustaining broken bones. It also estimated that "nearly one-third of the beaten children were aged ten and under."
 
The IDF fired one million bullets in the first days of the uprising, hardly a measured response. Since then, Israel has killed 3.4 Palestinians for every Israeli lost, the majority of whom have been innocent bystanders; the ratio of Palestinian to Israeli children killed is even higher (5.7 to one).

 

On the subject of Israel responding defensively against terrorism:

Quote:
It is also worth bearing in mind that the Zionists relied on terrorist bombs to drive the British from Palestine, and that Yitzhak Shamir, once a terrorist and later prime minister, declared that ‘neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat.’The Palestinian resort to terrorism is wrong but it isn’t surprising. The Palestinians believe they have no other way to force Israeli concessions. As Ehud Barak once admitted, had he been born a Palestinian, he ‘would have joined a terrorist organisation’.
....
But isn't Israel entitled to do whatever it takes to protect its citizens? Doesn't the unique evil of terrorism justify continued U.S. support, even if Israel often responds harshly?
 
In fact, this argument is not a compelling moral justification either. Palestinians have used terrorism against their Israeli occupiers, and their willingness to attack innocent civilians is clearly wrong and should be roundly condemned. This behavior is not surprising, however, because the Palestinians have long been denied basic political rights and believe they have no other way to force Israeli concessions. As former Prime Minister Barak once admitted, had he been born a Palestinian, he "would have joined a terrorist organization."  If the situation were reversed, and the Israelis were under Arab occupation, they would undoubtedly be using similar tactics against their oppressors, just as other resistance movements around the world have done.
 
Indeed, terrorism was one of the key tactics the Zionists used when they were in a similarly weak position and trying to obtain their own state. Between 1944 and 1947, several Zionist organizations used terrorist bombings to drive the British from Palestine and took the lives of many innocent civilians along the way. Israeli terrorists also murdered U.N. mediator Count Folke Bernadotte in 1948, because they opposed his proposal to internationalize Jerusalem. Nor were the perpetrators of these acts isolated extremists: the leaders of the murder plot were eventually granted amnesty by the Israeli government; one of them was elected to the Knesset.
 
Another terrorist leader, who approved Bernadotte's murder but was not tried, was future Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir. Indeed, Shamir openly argued that "neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat." Rather, terrorism had "a great part to play
… in our war against the occupier [Britain]."
 
If the Palestinians' use of terrorism is morally reprehensible today, so was Israel's reliance upon it in the past. Thus one cannot justify U.S. support for
Israel on the grounds that its prior conduct was morally superior. Similarly, although Israel is clearly justified in responding to violent acts by groups like Hamas and Hezbollah, its willingness to inflict massive suffering on innocent civilians casts doubt on its repeated claims to a special moral status.
Israel may not have acted worse than many other countries, but it clearly has not acted any better.
post #39 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by groakes View Post

Not saying that Israel shouldn't survive. Just saying that the Palestinians deserve some justice.


Where is the outrage among the Palestinians for Hamas' setting up military locations under women's skirts and children's playgrounds?  Hamas cannot have it both ways, they are 100% responsible for the death of every innocent person killed inside and outside Gaza.  If they want to maintain a military presence they need to do so in a manner that doesn't put their own civilian population in harms way.  Any death is tragic, but Hamas knows that a persistent bombardment of civilian targets will get a response and if they intentionally endanger their own people by setting up rockets in civilian areas, that blood is on their hands.

post #40 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venerable View Post


Where is the outrage among the Palestinians for Hamas' setting up military locations under women's skirts and children's playgrounds?  Hamas cannot have it both ways, they are 100% responsible for the death of every innocent person killed inside and outside Gaza.  If they want to maintain a military presence they need to do so in a manner that doesn't put their own civilian population in harms way.  Any death is tragic, but Hamas knows that a persistent bombardment of civilian targets will get a response and if they intentionally endanger their own people by setting up rockets in civilian areas, that blood is on their hands.

 

Really, you have to understand.  groakes and his ilk consider Israel's very founding to be a crime.  They do not believe Israel has a right to exist.  Therefore, they will go to any lengths to highlight "atrocities" the Israeli's commit in defense of their nation, and excuse all inexcusable tactics by those who wish to push Israel into the sea.  They view the Palestinians as oppressed by the evil Zionists, and support any method of resisting the "occupation."   This includes equating the deliberate slaughter of innocent civilians with accidental civilian deaths caused by the IDF.   

 

You'll never change their minds.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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