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Samsung planning to one-up Apple's Touch ID with iris scanner in Galaxy S5 - Page 5

post #161 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpd514 View Post

@jfc1138
I should have know, you used to steal the technology, so you know nothing about creation process.

A competitor is developing a new technology, so in the process he will have to start from one point and have the process evolved until the goal is attained. What we see on the Galaxy Note is a creation in progress at one stage of developpement. At the end you can steal it an add it on an iPhone and say it's innovation.
That was an agreement. Try a different translation app? Or ask Dennis Rodman for help.
post #162 of 185

Quote:

Originally Posted by mknopp View Post
 

 

I am including an excerpt of the article ("Closing the Door on 
Iris Recognition Vulnerabilities") from http://www.afcea.org/content/?q=node/11607.

 

 

Interesting read but if read properly it looks like it requires an additional light source to induce dilation of the pupil (flickering light, pen light etc).

Now wouldn't that be amusing if each time you wanted to unlock the phone, it caused a flash in your eyes.  It be flashy for sure :-D

Not sure how the eye works exactly but it might be possible to reach to smaller levels of movement I guess.

 

Another thing I wonder whether it would consistently work in different levels of lights, particularly low light.  Most of these iris recognition technologies are used in relatively bright areas with consistent lighting (airports, security check points, etc).  New algorithms and possibly technologies would have to be used to adapt to a less controlled situation such as that experienced by a typical phone user.

 

If I were Apple I would probably not try and go an iris recognition technology yet for opening the phone but would rather look to develop some type of live-tissue recognition into the TouchID process.  While the RF sensing electrode in theory would permit imaging of the live tissue just below the surface,  maybe decided not to incorporate it yet due to too many inaccurate denials.  If they could overcome this than the security strength of TouchID would increase dramatically.

 

Thinking a bit more pie-in-the-sky, I wonder if there is anyway to increase the security of the iPhone with the iWatch.  Maybe some type of BLE connection that causes the iPhone to require password access if the iWatch is not nearby.  On a side note, I would love it if the rumoured iWatch also had some type of "locate my iPhone" feature built into for when I forget where I put the bloody thing in my own house...

post #163 of 185
The issues with iris scanning.

1) so if your wearing regular glasses it could distort the sensors view at the iris because of lens refraction or lens glare from a light source.

2) what if your wearing sun glasses on a sunny day outside ? You expect me to take it off to unlock my phone ?

3) what if your unlocking ur phone in a dark room in the middle of the night. Expect me to turn on the lights to unlock ?

4) you need to point the device at ur face to unlock.

5) what about people wearing colored contact lenses ?

Enough said. This is bound to fail.
Edited by nikilok - 1/9/14 at 10:26pm
post #164 of 185

i'm sure many commenters above have said this already, but really, this is total f'ing vapor-ware from SS. CES is THE annual orgy of vapor-ware announcements.

 

ALL the responses by other OEM's so far to Apple's TouchID to date have been vapor-ware - or defective products that just don't work right.

 

call me up when anyone of them actually has a product for sale that works.

post #165 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

The last thing I want to do is shove a smartphone against my eyeball every time I want to use the smartphone. I am sure Apple considered and discarded the idea.

Dint you know that Sammy takes all those Apple discarded ideas for there phones anyways 1smile.gif ?
post #166 of 185
Don't worry about poor lighting condition or people wearing glasses, Samsung can add a weapon grade laser to the phone which can be beam to your eyes and illuminate your iris even there is a wall between you and the phone!
post #167 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrogusto View Post

Maybe ear recognition would be better, since people are already accustomed to holding their phone up to their ear!

(Kidding, of course.)

Remove (Kidding of course.) and you'd be closer to a powerful observation... and one would not need to hold the phone to the ear.

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post #168 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrogusto View Post

Maybe ear recognition would be better, since people are already accustomed to holding their phone up to their ear!


(Kidding, of course.)
Remove (Kidding of course.) and you'd be closer to a powerful observation... and one would not need to hold the phone to the ear.

Removing the phone would make it an even more powerful conversation.
post #169 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


Removing the phone would make it an even more powerful conversation.

Lol - I'll admit that I couldn't find the word I wanted, a bit distracted right now. :)

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post #170 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clayton View Post

Where will Samsung get the technology?

Most iris scanners are closely monitored by the US government for security reasons and accessing the technology without paying for it might be more difficult than borrowing it from Apple for a few years without paying.

The little unspoken truth about willful infringements: When you're eventually found guilty in court you STILL OWE MONEY for past infringements.

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post #171 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post
 

 

Using an Iris Scanner that fits comfortably inside a smartphone?

 

Not yet, anyway.

 

Yes, right now. The leading researcher in the world on iris recognition flat out states, “We can use an iPhone, an iPad, even Google Glasses as well as any digital camera."

 

They have already used the technology inside of a smartphone as an iris scanner. Now, as some people have pointed out, some hardware improvements would be needed to make it more robust and as I pointed out any IR filters would need to be removed to help increase secutiry, but there is nothing necessary to keep the current level of technology from being used as an iris scanner.

 

However, this doesn't automatically mean that it will be a good implementation.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yada Yada Yoda View Post
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by mknopp View Post
 

 

I am including an excerpt of the article ("Closing the Door on 
Iris Recognition Vulnerabilities") from http://www.afcea.org/content/?q=node/11607.

 

 

Interesting read but if read properly it looks like it requires an additional light source to induce dilation of the pupil (flickering light, pen light etc).

Now wouldn't that be amusing if each time you wanted to unlock the phone, it caused a flash in your eyes.  It be flashy for sure :-D

Not sure how the eye works exactly but it might be possible to reach to smaller levels of movement I guess.

 

Another thing I wonder whether it would consistently work in different levels of lights, particularly low light.  Most of these iris recognition technologies are used in relatively bright areas with consistent lighting (airports, security check points, etc).  New algorithms and possibly technologies would have to be used to adapt to a less controlled situation such as that experienced by a typical phone user.

 

The point of the article about forcing eye contraction was to catch people trying to avoid detection / recognition by an iris scanner. In other words, if you were a terrorist trying to sneak into a country you could try to avoid detection be the means stated. Interestingly, a smartphone's implementation is almost the exact opposite. Any of these methods wouldn't give access to the phone they would fail the match and keep the phone locked.

 

Now, light levels and light temperature is a very valid concern. To address this I would expect that phone manufacturers would have to build in flash/illumination LEDs into the front of the camera. One of these LEDs should also be a near IR LED for IR illumination. As for the algorithms, you might be correct, although it seems to me that as long as the phone can get a good image then the algorithm should be just fine.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikilok View Post

The issues with iris scanning.

1) so if your wearing regular glasses it could distort the sensors view at the iris because of lens refraction or lens glare from a light source.

2) what if your wearing sun glasses on a sunny day outside ? You expect me to take it off to unlock my phone ?

3) what if your unlocking ur phone in a dark room in the middle of the night. Expect me to turn on the lights to unlock ?

4) you need to point the device at ur face to unlock.

5) what about people wearing colored contact lenses ?

Enough said. This is bound to fail.

 

1) I have read a few articles which state that regular glasses do not interfere with the scan.

 

2) Sunglasses would interfere with the scan. Just like wearing gloves interferes with a fingerprint scanner. So, yes, you would be expected to take off your gloves for TouchID and your sunglasses for an iris scan.

 

3) This one is a very valid concern and I would say that any good implementation of this would require illumination LEDs to be installed on the front of the phone. If momentary night blindness is a concern due to illumination the phone could revert to IR illumination only if the environment is too dark.

 

4) Yes.

 

5) People who wear colored contact lenses might not be able to use this, or they might. The article that I linked to mentioned a way around this, but I don't know what it entails.

 

You are seeming to argue that it shouldn't be implemented because it might cause some inconvenience. Well, any security causes some inconvenience. If your convenience is more important to you than security then I am sure that you could turn it off, just like with any smartphone's security feature.

 

Again, I am not saying that iris scanning is necessarily a better solution than fingerprint scanning, it is just more secure, while also being less convenient. The ideal solution is a phone with both, and I hope that Apple eventually gets around to implementing both.

 

I think that Samsung will be the first to release it though, and I think that implementation will be Samsung's usual, terrible implementation.

post #172 of 185
And they'd do all of this just to be able to change their phone name to the "EyePhone".

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post #173 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

And they'd do all of this just to be able to change their phone name to the "EyePhone".

Funny, surprised no one came up with that sooner.
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post #174 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanleywkl View Post

Don't worry about poor lighting condition or people wearing glasses, Samsung can add a weapon grade laser to the phone which can be beam to your eyes and illuminate your iris even there is a wall between you and the phone!

So apart from exploding batteries, we now have to worry about exploding eyeballs as well?

 

Samsung makes excellent hardware, but I feel they don't really have a great track record of successfully integrating technology into their devices in a way that best benefits the user. Heck, they even admit as much in a recent interview. 

 

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-35284_1-57617020/samsung-exec-were-being-more-cautious-with-unproven-device-features/

post #175 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yada Yada Yoda View Post

Interesting concept but there are a number of challenges in execution I think. With a few obstacles that I think ultimately will handicap it's use for the end client. Just my opinion though.
First the technical limitations - if you read the wiki on iris recognition (not retina scanning) it seems to work with few false positives. Except according to wiki "Many commercial iris scanners can be easily fooled by a high quality image of an iris or face in place of the real thing". If that's true than unlike fingerprints which they were able to break the iPhone 5S security by creating a model based off a fingerprint, then in theory a high quality picture would do.
A second technical limitation which I found a bit amusing was "Alcohol consumption causes recognition degradation as the pupil dilates/constricts causing deformation in the iris pattern" So it might not work if you're drunk!?
A third limitation I can see is light or lack thereof. If there is not enough light for the CCD camera to see the iris?
A fourth limitation might exist for people with glasses might cause a reflection degrading the image. Or colour contacts. Definitely sunglasses.
Other questions from a technology standpoint are how long does it have to scan an eye to achieve a result and how stable does the eye have to be? Also where is the data being stored? Seperately like the iPhone5s or somewhere in memory. And how easy would it be take control of the CCD camera and send a signal to it or send a virus to override it? The fingerprint scanner is totally separate from everything (or so I think) while the CCD camera on a phone is used for multiple purposes which I think in theory makes it more vulnerable. I also wonder how much power consumption is required comparing the two. If it comes at a cost of battery life (or phone weight) that wouldn't be good.

Moving away from technology I think the user experience also has to be taken into consideration. One of the reasons I would want a iPhone5s (i currently have a 5) is because it would allow me to easily access my phone while driving. Don't know how many times the password lock has made it a pain to quickly check something (maybe this is a good thing but there are certain times that a quick check or access of a address or phone number you have in an open email would be useful).
Second is as people mentioned the way people access the phone. The reader built into the home button is a natural progression of what they normally do. I don't think iris recognition is.
Ultimately it sounds like a "cool" technology rather than a non-intrusive technology like the iPhone 5s.

To be fair, I think we would want to see how it's executed but not sure how useful it's going to be... but having said that at least for me one of the primary reasons for wanting the fingerprint scanner would not be met with a iris recognition technology.

Brilliant appraisal and demolition. Do you work for Apple? If not, you should!
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post #176 of 185
From Samsung's interview, it's kind of funny how people deride Apple for being just a "marketing company" and laud Samsung, Google, and Microsoft as the real innovators. The irony in that statement is that Apple has never resorted to Samsung's tactics to promote their products. For starters, the amount that Samsung spent on marketing in 2013 is more than three times what Apple spent on R&D in that year. Apple executives don't give media interviews to talk about future product releases. Just about the only case I can think of where Apple did what Samsung did as described in this article was when Tim Cook promised an update to the Mac Pro a whole year before it was released without giving any details.

Samsung was talking up the SG5 and Galaxy Gear in a clear-cut attempt to generate buzz in order to get people to hold out for those products rather than buy an existing product. The promise of an updated Galaxy Gear is even more laughable. Samsung simply shouldn't have released the Gear in that form. It was fundamentally flawed on so many levels. For starters, the Galaxy Gear looks terrible on the wrist. Secondly, it needs to be connected to a phone running Android 4.3 in order to work. Since only the latest models have Android 4.3, the usability of the Gear was limited. Last but not least, the battery life was just terrible. Samsung should have had much more pride than to release such a product. What good is to release an update for a product that hasn't been on the market for even a year?

Also, it is a well-known fact that Samsung was fined for paying college students to post comments on tech blogs that praise Samsung's products while deriding competitor's products. Samsung's clear-cut message in their commercials is that Samsung products are the "next big thing." They project an image of their products being superior to others' products. If their products are so good, why do they have to resort to paying for favorable reviews?


Who's the marketing company now?
post #177 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by bethrogers449 View Post

Yup its a cool waiting ... for s5 ;-)

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post #178 of 185
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post
For your first post, can you please be less obvious in showing your true colours? Tnx

 

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post #179 of 185
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Signature screams ‘spambot’ from the highest ramparts. Just toss in a report.

Tnx. I did that, only after hitting Submit. Next time I won't even reply.
post #180 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompeter View Post

Samsung’s Galaxy S5, the next generation of its flagship smartphone, will be released by April and may include innovative eye-scanning technology.

So we have an unannounced and unreleased product that is tentatively scheduled to be released in April but could be changed and may include eye-scanning technology which may or may not work but we'll just call it innovative anyway?

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post #181 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompeter View Post

, the next generation of its flagship smartphone, will be released by April and may include innovative eye-scanning technology.

Well, I suppose that’s one way to try and dampen the sales momentum on the Apple iPhone, by “leaking” that the next-gen Galaxy is almost here. But instead, they’re essentially saying, “Don’t buy that soon-to-be-obsolete iPhone just yet!!! The next Galaxy MIGHT have amazing innovations onboard too!" Psh!

Unfortunately for them, I think the only effect it will have is to further slow the faltering sales of the Galaxy S4.

After all, why would a potential Galaxy customer buy an S4 now, with the S5 right around the corner?
post #182 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

Well, I suppose that’s one way to try and dampen the sales momentum on the Apple iPhone, by “leaking” that the next-gen Galaxy is almost here. But instead, they’re essentially saying, “Don’t buy that soon-to-be-obsolete iPhone just yet!!! The next Galaxy MIGHT have amazing innovations onboard too!" Psh!

Unfortunately for them, I think the only effect it will have is to further slow the faltering sales of the Galaxy S4.

After all, why would a potential Galaxy customer buy an S4 now, with the S5 right around the corner?

That's what I don't get about most of these consumer-focused companies. They don't exactly Osborne their products (which I think is more or less because there is so much noise today) but I find hard to see how they help themselves to make these announcement so far ahead in advance. Let the internet build the anticipation; it's free advertising. Apple is brilliant at this but there are examples of them making missteps. The 2012 iMac comes to mind.

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post #183 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That's what I don't get about most of these consumer-focused companies. They don't exactly Osborne their products (which I think is more or less because there is so much noise today) but I find hard to see how they help themselves to make these announcement so far ahead in advance. Let the internet build the anticipation; it's free advertising. Apple is brilliant at this but there are examples of them making missteps. The 2012 iMac comes to mind.

Yes, part of Apple’s marketing genius is how they manage to build buzz and anticipation, without actually announcing anything at all. When they do finally announce the really major volume products, it’s often “available today”, or within a couple of weeks. Just enough time to build even more pre-sales churn.

When they announced the new Mac Pro months ahead, it was knowing that it was a much more niche product, lower volume, and needed more time to build up acceptance, being so totally new in form factor.

I think Samsung is shooting themselves point blank in the foot. S4 sales will surely plummet between now and April (the only rumored release date for some as yet unannounced “S5”).

I think those sales are already pretty flat, and so SS had little to lose by doing this. That announcement, combined with all the newly ramped up hostility by post trolls, makes me think they’re actually really worried.

We shall see what the next few months brings!
post #184 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

Yes, part of Apple’s marketing genius is how they manage to build buzz and anticipation, without actually announcing anything at all. When they do finally announce the really major volume products, it’s often “available today”, or within a couple of weeks. Just enough time to build even more pre-sales churn.

Yeah... Apple certainly gets a big boost at launch. There are some people who want the new iPhone the moment it's released.

But don't forget... people buy iPhones 365 days a year... not just at launch.

The buzz and anticipation at launch is amazing... and Apple recently sold 9 million iPhones over the last launch weekend. But after the buzz has subsided... Apple continues to sell a ton of phones for the rest of the year.
post #185 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


Yeah... Apple certainly gets a big boost at launch. There are some people who want the new iPhone the moment it's released.

But don't forget... people buy iPhones 365 days a year... not just at launch.

The buzz and anticipation at launch is amazing... and Apple recently sold 9 million iPhones over the last launch weekend. But after the buzz has subsided... Apple continues to sell a ton of phones for the rest of the year.

 

If the estimates for the quarter are sound (north of 50 million iPhones sold), it means that Apple sold 9 million the opening weekend, and averaged 3 to 4 million per week after that. Sustaining that level of sales momentum is something Samsung can only dream of... they need these silly 'pseudo-teaser' leaks just to try and sustain a bit of buzz months before their new model comes out.

 

I imagine right now inside Samsung it's a new "crisis of design". How to answer to the 64-bit chip and Touch ID additions. Apple took most people by surprise with those... they're useful, functional and enhance the overall UX. A hard act to follow this time around.


Edited by tribalogical - 1/15/14 at 12:22pm
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