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IDC forecasts 'challenging' year for tablets as Apple's iPad continues to lead - Page 2

post #41 of 99
Has any of IDC's forecast been right?
post #42 of 99
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... while Amazon and its Kindle Fire line took fifth with 1 million for the quarter.

 

Wow.  Must be one of those "only popular in the holiday quarter" gift items?

 

 

Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"The rise of large-screen phones and consumers who are holding on to their existing tablets for ever longer periods of time were both contributing factors ..."
 

People probably don't upgrade iPads as often as iPhones.  No 2-year contract.

Little carrier presence at all, really.

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post #43 of 99
Anyone recall IDC data were presented as a lie during the Apple/Samscum 2nd trial? I bet even Samscum want to say that if Apple suggest the jury to use this Google/Samscum paid data house in calculate the damages
post #44 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxfanatic View Post
 

Unless you bought the Kindle Fire HDX 8.9, I think that the price difference is a bit more than $100!

 

iPadMini is $399

Fire HDX 8.9 WITHOUT ADS is $354

 

They are basically the same size (screen area)

 

Dont compare the 7 inch HDX.  Its tiny compared to the iPadMini

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post #45 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


My sister isn't a heavy user. She uses mostly to read, and she loves the ability to borrow books. I suggested a eInk one but she wanted the ability to browse the internet. So far it's been good for her usage.

 

as a dedicated reader/browser its fine.

 

If you get into Apps the Fire is a FAIL.  I've lived with it for 12 months, I know.

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post #46 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


Holy crap Batman! I have never seen the likes. So this load of junk, in total is being included in statistics regarding Apple iPad sales? That is like discussing Mercedes and BMW cars and including subcompact cars sold in Asia in the overall sales percentages.

 

I'd compare to a Merc S Series vs a Motor Scooter

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post #47 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

People probably don't upgrade iPads as often as iPhones.  No 2-year contract.
Little carrier presence at all, really.

Definitely the case for me... I've upgraded my iPhone on contract renewal every time so far (3G -> 4 -> 5 and will most likely get a 6 when it gets released later this year) but I'm still on my iPad 3 and until things start to fail to work on it or it gets dropped from the latest version of iOS support I've got no real intention to upgrade. I jumped from the iPad 2 to 3 after 12 months for the retina screen but since then the 3 has done and continues to do everything I need from a tablet.
post #48 of 99

The sales numbers are not a true telling of the whole story. Tablets are not phones that are replaced every year or two. A tablet most likely has a 3 to 5 year cycle. I know this is not an original point, however i feel it is the truth. Apple on top of this makes a high quality product that just lasts or dare i say "it just works". 

post #49 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFA551 View Post

The sales numbers are not a true telling of the whole story. Tablets are not phones that are replaced every year or two. A tablet most likely has a 3 to 5 year cycle. I know this is not an original point, however i feel it is the truth. Apple on top of this makes a high quality product that just lasts or dare i say "it just works". 

Stick with "just lasts"
 
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post #50 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


Holy crap Batman! I have never seen the likes. So this load of junk, in total is being included in statistics regarding Apple iPad sales? That is like discussing Mercedes and BMW cars and including subcompact cars sold in Asia in the overall sales percentages.

Look at the URL, it says it all.  In order to find this site, I had typed into Google (their search tool would be the best suited. ;-)  ) and I typed in "Cheap Android tablets" and this is one of the sites that came up.  ;-)

 

Yeah, i'm sure these POS Android tablets are what you would find in China, or these schlock stores in the seedy parts of town.  Look in any consumer electronics industry you'll see products of this nature being sold.  It's the junk of the industry.  They have to sell 1,000 of them to make $100 profit.  It's a way companies dump outdated, obsolete components.  

post #51 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post
 

 

I travel all over, and see maybe 1 samsung tablet for every 30 iPads. I pay attention to this stuff. No fucking clue how these #s would even be possible, or who the **** is buying them, and where. 


How can analysts even be allowed to publish completely fabricated numbers like that without being called to it?  Not only does Samsung not publish numbers, but on those rare occasions when it did, they were caught flat-out lying, all thanks to unsealed documents from the Apple/Samsung lawsuit(s).

Honestly, these analysts should be fined, or penalized in some sort of way for their crackpot analysis.  It's a shame, and sham!

post #52 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post
 

The new COBOL programmer

yeah an i remember those forks were worth a mint for a couple of years around Y2K after that, they were killed off.

post #53 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post
 

I'm curious what the sales numbers are on these types of bottom of the line tablets.  

 

A lot of people generally refer to Chinese brands as being cheap and low end, but that's also not entirely true.  Some of the larger companies (and lesser known to AI members) are Oppo/OnePlus, Xiaomi (Mi), and Meizu.  They all produce high end devices with quality construction and parts. They're also hugely successful in the Chinese market.

I used the term CHEAP in front to designate the cheapest products.  If they are Chinese, then this lists the cheapest Chinese brands.  But I didn't refer to ALL Chinese products as cheap.  Only those that are.  That's why Oppo, Xiaomi and Meizu aren't listed.  Right?

 

But those brands aren't what are considered HUGLY successful because they don't have sales that equals Samsung or Apple.  A lot of those other brands aren't amongst the top selling worldwide.

post #54 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post
 


How can analysts even be allowed to publish completely fabricated numbers like that without being called to it?  Not only does Samsung not publish numbers, but on those rare occasions when it did, they were caught flat-out lying, all thanks to unsealed documents from the Apple/Samsung lawsuit(s).

Honestly, these analysts should be fined, or penalized in some sort of way for their crackpot analysis.  It's a shame, and sham!

IDC is a market research firm, not a stock analyst company.  Market research firms get their information by various sources and you probably have to read the specific report to find out how they gathered the information.  Some numbers they get from the mfg.

 

Stock analysts usually work for the major brokerage houses, like UBS, etc. etc.  Companies like IDC, Gartner, etc. are totally different, they analyze the market as a market research company.  Completely two different type of companies making two entirely different reports. 

post #55 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


The Fire is much better than most other Android tablets. My sister purchased 3 against my advice to get iPads, and I was surprised at how nice they were. Lightyears better than the crappy Nexus 7 I bought and have since replaced with a iPad mini.

 

You think the iPad Mini is better than the Nexus 7.  LOL!  There is no better tablet than the Nexus 7 in that size.  Period.  On the 10", I'll grant that the iPad can compete with the Nexus 10.

post #56 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2baba View Post

You think the iPad Mini is better than the Nexus 7.  LOL!  There is no better tablet than the Nexus 7 in that size.  Period.  On the 10", I'll grant that the iPad can compete with the Nexus 10.

The 8" and 10" iPads beat all other tablets. Just look at their OS and ecosystem for proof of that.

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post #57 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2baba View Post

You think the iPad Mini is better than the Nexus 7.  LOL!  There is no better tablet than the Nexus 7 in that size.  Period.  On the 10", I'll grant that the iPad can compete with the Nexus 10.

It's a laggy pos.
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post #58 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

It's a laggy pos.

Even on Google's own Octane browser benchmark the iPad mini trounces it.

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post #59 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

I'm sure a lot of those "shipments' are in inventories at various resellers.  :-) but if the mfg sold some to a reseller, then it's the reseller's inventory and the mfg SOLD them to the reseller.   So the mfg claims it as a SOLD item or SHIPPED them as kind of the same thing.  Apple has inventories in resellers' inventories that haven't been sold to the end user.  It's kind of hard to calculate exactly how many have been sold to an end user because these mfg sell direct and to resellers, but I don't think IDC has double checked through the reseller channel, since many are small stores independently owned and do not report unit sale.

 

Except the data they are referring to is specifically based on "shipments", it even says so in their graphs.

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post #60 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Even on Google's own Octane browser benchmark the iPad mini trounces it.

Don't know how it's possible but on every and any Android device the Chrome browser sucks.
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post #61 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2baba View Post
 

 

You think the iPad Mini is better than the Nexus 7.  LOL!  There is no better tablet than the Nexus 7 in that size.  Period.  On the 10", I'll grant that the iPad can compete with the Nexus 10.

Aren't the newer iPad mini 2's using a 64 Bit processor and the Nexus 7 isn't?  Secondly, Nexus 7's are a smaller screen 7 inch vs 7.9inch.  The iPad mini 2 is almost a full inch larger diagonally.  Thirdly, iPad mini's have far more software apps that take advantage of the iPad's screen sizes rather than just smartphone apps made bigger.

 

So, when Android finally gets 64 Bit apps, they won't run on the Nexus 7.  Ouch.  Doesn't that make you have to buy a new device just to take advantage of 64 Bit?  And when is Google going to release a 64 Bit OS?

 

On the Nexus 10, I say comparisons with the iPad 4 against the same year's Nexus offering and seem to remember the iPad 4 kicked the Nexus' tail when it came to game playing.
 

For certain industries, which many people are in, some industries simply have very little Android apps.  The one industry that comes to mind is music creation/production.  That industry is pretty much adopted iOS and Android products are far and few between.  So, again, what is the more useful platform?  iOS.

 

Have a great day!

post #62 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by 512ke View Post
 

You can goose up the numbers to make it look like the market leader, Apple, is the market loser, but you can't outright lie to your shareholders.

 

If IDC's numbers were correct, then I guarantee you, Amazon wouldn't be bleeding money, and Samsung's shares wouldn't be taking a hit on continued declining sales and profit.

 

If IDC were accurate, then Samsung and Amazon would have a much brighter outlook, which they don't right now.

 

I think they are correct, however, in asserting that tastes are shifting away from tablet and toward phablets.  That's why both Amazon and Apple want to move into this area.

 

Just a personal POV... to accept or ignore.

I accept your point of view - AND ignore it. HAH!

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post #63 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

I accept your point of view - AND ignore it. HAH!

I just might use that in my signature. 1wink.gif
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post #64 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post
 

The second part wasn't as much directed towards you, it was more of a general statement.  

 

Hugely successful in the 'Chinese market'.  Take Xiaomi for example.  Within minutes of launching their flagship devices (launched in batches of 300,000), they sell out completely.  For a company with only an online presence and no marketing budget that would be considered hugely successful.  On the global scale, none are as large as the leading Chinese companies (Lenovo, Huawei, Yulong, ZTE), but I only made reference to them as they're not as well known on this board. 

Xiaomi doesn't make tablets that I'm aware of.  They only make smartphones and phablets.  They also have to have enough sales for IDC, Gartner, etc. to recognize them by previous quarter/yearly sales.  Maybe their numbers will show up in future reports.

post #65 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2baba View Post
 

 

You think the iPad Mini is better than the Nexus 7.  LOL!  There is no better tablet than the Nexus 7 in that size.  Period.  On the 10", I'll grant that the iPad can compete with the Nexus 10.

The App Store has 400,000 apps specifically tailored to the iPad. The Google Play Store has 1,000. There's no competition going on there; it's a slam dunk for Apple.

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post #66 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

 

Except the data they are referring to is specifically based on "shipments", it even says so in their graphs.

 

So, they probably got the information from each mfg on what they shipped.  So much of what they shipped goes directly to customers, some go to resellers' inventories.  So, what point are you trying to make?

post #67 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post
 

It would make sense to discuss 64-bit in context.  It really depends on the application whether or not that will even make a difference.  The Nexus 4 launched with hardware that supported OpenGL ES 3.0 (a major mobile API) a year before Apple added support in the A7 SoC, but the real world applications are all that really matter.

 

As for 64-bit Android, Intel already launched a 64-bit kernel that will be coming in Bay Trail Android devices.  ASUS has a $149 64-bit Android tablet launching soon in the 7" segment.  We'll have to see if there is any real world advantages when the device hits the market.

 

As for real world usage of both operating systems, iOS has a considerable app advantage in the tablet segment.  The only catch is, a new A7 iOS device starts at $399 and up. 

Last time I checked, ASUS is running at around 6% or less Net Profit to Gross Sales margin, which in the REAL world, is AWFUL.  These computer/tablet/smartphone mfg can't continue at such low margins.  It's almost impossible for them to increase their margins, so if the market falls out beneath them, they get hit a lot sooner.  That's why NEC got out of the PC, smartphone, etc. markets.  That's why ACER is one foot in the grave as they are now on their 3rd CEO within 6 months.  These companies just can't make a decent business from 6% or less Net Profit margin.  An $149 ASUS is a prime example of someone trying to "BUY" the market and these companies can't survive on little to no margin/profit.    Apple doesn't play that game.  I would be interested in knowing how much ASUS actually makes on those $149 tablets.  My guess is not much, if any.  Apple doesn't go after that business. 

 

Please don't talk about future products until they are released and on the market.    If you can't buy it, then there is no reason to discuss it.

post #68 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post
 

The second part wasn't as much directed towards you, it was more of a general statement.  

 

Hugely successful in the 'Chinese market'.  Take Xiaomi for example.  Within minutes of launching their flagship devices (launched in batches of 300,000), they sell out completely.  For a company with only an online presence and no marketing budget that would be considered hugely successful.  On the global scale, none are as large as the leading Chinese companies (Lenovo, Huawei, Yulong, ZTE), but I only made reference to them as they're not as well known on this board. 

 

Phones NOT tablets.

 

Show me a Xiaomi tablet.

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post #69 of 99
I don't know if this has been posted before on this topic, but I was just reading this on business insider: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/apples-ipad-business-collapsing-224423071.html

It's cringe worthy
post #70 of 99
When IDC started predicting iPad sales back in 2010, they got it wrong almost every single quarter. In 2011 when the first Galaxy Tabs arrived, IDC reported 2 million shipments in 1 quarter. That knocked iPad market share down a substantial percentage and spurred “iPad is doomed” headlines. We now know that actual sales of the Samsung tablets were much less. But how can you blame IDC for doing what they do? People pay good money for their reports.
 
Here we are at the start of iPad’s 5th year on this planet. Apple’s tablet product line went from $0 to $30+ billion in four years. That’s roughly half of Google’s annual revenue. Half a Google in 4 years! Stop and think about that for a bit.
 
These 4 years are just the beginning of what even IDC acknowledges is a long trend that will see tablets surpassing desktop & laptop sales. Yet they’re already saying that iPad sales peaked in Year 3? Really?
 
But just as the masses don’t remember iPad claim chowder of 2-3 years ago, these reports will also be forgotten in a few years. Even if iPad revenue is by then larger than Google’s, there will be some other set of “data” that will show the iPad’s best days are past.
post #71 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post

It has a 7.85" display with a resolution of 2048x1536 and is expected to launch in Q3 or Q4 of this year for only $160.  We don't know what SoC will be powering it, but Xiaomi usually goes for the high-end.  Like other Xiaomi products, this will likely be sold at cost.

1) It hasn't launched yet now is it slated to launch for 2 to 3 quarters.

2) There is no info on the specs.

3) There is no info on the quality.

4) There is no info on the usability.

5) All you have is two specs about the size and resolution of the display but no knowledge of anything else. Using the iPad mini's resolution and PPI is not what made the iPad mini successful.

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post #72 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post
 

From a consumer's perspective I could care less if a company like ASUS is (or is not) making a large profit on their devices.  If they can produce a quality product at a low price that would be in my best interest.  Personally, I have no interest in an Android tablet.

 

I don't understand why you said not to talk about future product, does it make you uncomfortable?  You just asked the question "And when is Google going to release a 64 Bit OS?", thus I made reference to an ASUS product that is about to release and it happens to be running Google's Android with a 64-bit kernel.

I don't have a problem talking about a future product, as long as everyone knows it's just rumor until the product is announced, but to compare against an existing product to compare is just futile.  By the time these so-called device finally ships, Apple will be preparing their next product, so let's compare THOSE two products and quite trying to confuse the issue.

 

Are you 100% certain that this 64 Bit Android device and all of the specs from ASUS is only going to be $148?  And when is this product going to be released?  And will it be comparible to the iPad Mini 2 or the next gen iPad mini?  Traditionally, the Nexus base line model comes with less storage, which renders the product useless, so you have to spend more for something with a reasonable amount of storage.


But in the end I'm still trying to figure out why you compare something that's on the market vs one that isn't?    That, to me, is a waste of time.  So, when ASUS brings out their product, then we should compare it against Apple's next rev.  Which we don't know about until it gets released.  Right?  See my point?

 

Let's stick to only comparing what's on the market to make it fair for all parties, since that's what's currently available.  

post #73 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post

He said "Show me a Xiaomi tablet."

So I posted all of the information on their upcoming tablet that I'm aware of.  

Anything more is just speculation based off of Xiaomi's history of providing high end smartphones at low cost.  

Then my mistake. I thought you were making a point that the iPad mini was somehow being trounced by this device.

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post #74 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post
 

It would help if you read my previous post:

 

As for Xiaomi's tablet in testing, I did a little bit more digging and found out a few details.

 

Apparently this is it (one of them at least):

 

xiaomi tablet leaked 1 Xiaomis 7.85 inch tablet to sport a 2048x1536 pixel retina display and cost $160: Report

 

It has a 7.85" display with a resolution of 2048x1536 and is expected to launch in Q3 or Q4 of this year for only $160.  We don't know what SoC will be powering it, but Xiaomi usually goes for the high-end.  Like other Xiaomi products, this will likely be sold at cost.

 

A blurry pic of a tablet based on a rumour doth not a tablet on the market make.

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post #75 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post
 

I was not comparing these products, I was just answering your question as to how soon a 64-bit Android device will hit the market.  

 

As for information on the ASUS ME176, it has been posted by a number of reputable tech sites.  To clear up any confusion, the ME176 is NOT a Nexus device, it is an entry level Intel based 64-bit Android tablet.

 

Doesn't Google have to release their 64 Bit code first before the rest can release a working product?

 

I don't really care about trying to find out about every single Android product since I'm not planning on buying them, especially ASUS.  Apple would have to out of business before I'd consider an ASUS product.  In fact, I would buy a Samsung product before ASUS.  So, both Apple and Samsung would have to go out of business before that happens, which is HIGHLY unlikely.   I just simply have no desire to buy anything from ASUS.  I wonder how much ASUS lost on their PADFONE product? Biggest joke I've seen a while.

post #76 of 99
Folks.

Take all these metrics companies reports as shite.. Regardless the company they are talking about.

I can attest to IDC and a couple others as companies that are ONLY out to sell their marketing report subscriptions. If your company does not subscribe, then you are painted in a bad light. If you subscribe, then the reports paint your company in a good light no matter the numbers.

They will say things "Company X (who subscribes) tripled their market share" and then you look at the numbers and you see it went from 0.0000001% to 0.0000003% and then you look even closer you see all the inventory is sitting on shelves or in a warehouse.

It's total crap and I wish these rumor sites would see through this nonsense.
post #77 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxfanatic View Post


Amazon only sells the Fire (at cost to no profit) to get people to buy apps and stream Prime. Whether that bad hardware actually sells or not is no big thing to them, especially since you can get the same Amazon apps on other Android tablets.


The Fire TV is already a bigger success than the tablets ever were. We will see if their smartphone makes a dent also. But ultimately Amazon is like Google: they don't "need" their hardware to sell or succeed since their primary business is elsewhere. And even Samsung: they are a hardware company, but they could stop making tablets and smartphones tomorrow and still rake in billions. So Apple has competition, but no direct competition instead of the companies that primarily sell mobile devices (and are going out of business one by one because they can't keep up with Apple and Samsung). This includes Microsoft, still primarily a software and services company whose main problem is an unwillingless to just abandon Windows already. (Plus they do make money off hardware with the XBox, a success that they have strangely been unable to leverage.)

whatever, you miss my point: both the Fire and the Surface were hyped by many in tech media to become huge sellers that would challenge Apple's iPad and the iOS ecosystem. well, they didn't. not even close. instead both are duds in terms of sales. but you can't find those hypsters now owning up to their dud punditry.
post #78 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post

It would make sense to discuss 64-bit in context.  It really depends on the application whether or not that will even make a difference.  The Nexus 4 launched with hardware that supported OpenGL ES 3.0 (a major mobile API) a year before Apple added support in the A7 SoC, but the real world applications are all that really matter.

As for 64-bit Android, Intel already launched a 64-bit kernel that will be coming in Bay Trail Android devices.  ASUS has a $149 64-bit Android tablet launching soon in the 7" segment.  We'll have to see if there is any real world advantages when the device hits the market.

As for real world usage of both operating systems, iOS has a considerable app advantage in the tablet segment.  The only catch is, a new A7 iOS device starts at $399 and up. 

64 bit chips do not = 64 bit Android. and why assume Google will ever produce a full 64 bit version of the Android OS and in-house apps as Apple has already achieved? Google is aiming for the broadest possible Android distribution with a lowest common denominator hardware and cost requirement for OEM's and telcos, with less fragmentation if possible. a new Android branch of 64 bit high end products serves none of those goals. and as you note the real value of 64 bit depends on apps being designed to take advantage of it, such as Apple has done with its processor intensive imaging apps. Google's core apps and ad services just don't need that. we'll see if third party iOS developers upgrade many apps to 64 bit - the graphics heavy games at least - but we know Android developers are more interested in the ads, etc. as evidenced by the small number of true Android tablet apps. if it's not even worth the trouble to upgrade Android phone apps to tablet size, why would any bother with 64 bit too?

i'll believe in 64 bit Android when i see it.
post #79 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

64 bit chips do not = 64 bit Android. and why assume Google will ever produce a full 64 bit version of the Android OS and in-house apps as Apple has already achieved? Google is aiming for the broadest possible Android distribution with a lowest common denominator hardware and cost requirement for OEM's and telcos, with less fragmentation if possible. a new Android branch of 64 bit high end products serves none of those goals. and as you note the real value of 64 bit depends on apps being designed to take advantage of it, such as Apple has done with its processor intensive imaging apps. Google's core apps and ad services just don't need that. we'll see if third party iOS developers upgrade many apps to 64 bit - the graphics heavy games at least - but we know Android developers are more interested in the ads, etc. as evidenced by the small number of true Android tablet apps. if it's not even worth the trouble to upgrade Android phone apps to tablet size, why would any bother with 64 bit too?

i'll believe in 64 bit Android when i see it.

Even after there is a 64-bit version of Android running on a consumer device with a 64-Bit ARM processor I wonder what that means for the apps. With iOS the OS, all the default apps and services on top, and a great number of App Store apps are already 64-bit natives. All other things being equal the new AArch64 ISA is better for apps built with Obj-C, but is it better for Java apps in the same way? How long will before Java and their Play apps gets updated? Will Google make the transition as smooth or will it be something disjointed the way MS did with their Windows transition to 64-bit?

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post #80 of 99
"Shipments............."

Actual sell through? Margins? Profits? You know, the stuff that actually matter and make a "market"?

"Shipments............"

Oh yeah, right.... it's IDC...
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