Nick Berg Beheaded. - Page 8  

Why?!

I hate to harp on this, but will a brave soul confirm or deny my observation? I'm quite sure that there was a huge difference in the time stamps on the video meaning something was up with the recording because it was all supposed to have taken place during the same "recording session".

New developments: it seems Berg was in possession of a Qu'ran and anti-Semitic book and was viewed with a great deal of suspicion by US soldiers as a 'terrorist wannabee'.

Let's recap:

He was detained and interviewed by US military who viewed him with suspicion. He was wearing the Abu Ghraib jumpsuit at the time of his death.

He carried a Qu'ran and book called 'the Jewish problem'.

Links have emerged with alleged 911 terrorist Zacharias Massoui.

The whole video story has more holes in it then a Swiss cheese.

Berg winds up dead - allegedly by Islamic fundamentalists who behead him (something forbidden to inflict on prisoners by the Qu'ran) whilst wearing gold rings (something forbidden by the Qu'ran) and all under the supervision of a Jordanian widely believed to be dead who has miraculously resurrected himself with a new leg to replace the one that got blown off, a new accent to replace his native Jordanian and a new found facility in Russian to compensate for his mysteriously degraded native Arabic.

Nothing to see here folks - move on and leave this one to the tin-hat brigade.....

Is it possible that Berg was a discovered US citizen terrorist who was killed by the US in the making of their damage control video.?

Is that where the evidence is going?

What would that mean to Mr.Average.American?

i don't see it, sorry.

I haven't actually seen any evidence he was in Abu Ghraib. They put him in the jump suit to 'send a message', reminding us of Guantanamo. I haven't seen any good evidence about this Russian thing, either, and I don't believe that the people who 'faked' this would be so stupid as leave Russian on the audio if it were a set up.

The people who did this had every reason to kill the guy. As far as they were concerned, anyway.

I don't know about the Jordanian accent and the leg. A more likely explanation is that someone's standing in for the Jordanian, who is an iconic figure I understand, for the sake of propaganda.

The gold rings, that's no problem at all. I remember reading an article about Islamists infiltrating mosques in London in which an Imam said 'it's the ones without the beards who are the most dangerous.' -These people are bad, damaged people first, Muslims second. That's not a joke or a fudge, it's the truth. They're terrorists, proper terrorists, and terrorists do what the fuck they like. If you can kill innocents contrary to your sacred texts you can wear gold rings without a problem. You even get drunk like Mohammed Atta (although as far as I can tell that's all hearsay too.)

The audio quality's bad, I understand. It's not a surprise that a translator misheard.

It just seems so much more likely to me that the poor guy, who may have been trying to be an insurgent, I don't know, just got murdered by murdering bastards angry with the US and Israel.

I'm aware of that - that is an inconsistency in itself. Hopefully we can divorce the actions of the nutters from that of the real religious people.

In the same way I would not blame Christians for what Bush does in Iraq although he claims to be one. It's important to look at what people do rather than what they claim they are.

Anyway, it's veering OT but it's an interesting issue for another time maybe. Although we've done it all a million times before - one more time won't hurt.

Forget the video for a moment...

His family was told that he was detained by US military, which was later described as an error.

Iraqi police says he was transfered over to americans, americans deny that.

i don't think us would allow us citizen to be detained by iraqi police, for 2 weeks and only "visiting" him.

Either:

a) they would release him.
b) transfered him somewhere where he could be interrogated easily.

And what to me makes no sense at all:
How can one believe he was there as "independent" contractor, trying to re-build... this is such a bs...

What can you possibly do as independent contractor in Iraq now????
Plus all that wireless crap, like you can go from house to house and try to sell them some antennas...

or perhaps you go for institutions..? Wait, what institutions? US controlled ones? My a$$.

I don't buy that russian mumbo-jumbo, but i don't believe he was simply snatched off the street and executed.

I concede there's something fishy here.

Ok, I have another theory (work with me) - I admit the previous one was a tad de trop.

This one sees the US as having no involvement in the killing which was done by 'persons unknown' (but probably not al-Qaeda).

But they knew that Berg was in the hands of the terrorists and there is some unclarity about how he got there and whether he was in US custody at any point.

However, the problem for the US is that the terrorist group (whoever they were) attempted to make a deal - exchange one prisoner for another but the US refused in line with the 'no negotiating with terrorists' policy.

The 'terrorists' wanted to make a point and they did what they did and released the video regardless of public opinion.

The US wants to cover it up (hence the anomalies and smoke and mirrors, al-Qaeda and deliberate misdirection) because if it came out that they refused to exchange a prisoner for a prisoner it would have a negative effect PR-wise.

Any better ?

I have male muslim friends and family members and wearing a gold ring has never been an issue. Actually, one of them was robbed at knifepoint and his ring was stolen. There were also muslims in my graduating class who all bought gold rings with the school insignia.

Radical clerics also denounce the wearing of jeans. No-one listens to them either.
Basing an entire conspiracy theory on muslim ring-wearing is insane.

Were your friends among the world's most extreme and fanatical fundamentalist terrorists insisting on a strict Wahabi interpretation of the Qu'ran and prepared to die and kill for the reinstatement of the Caliphate and claim their 72 doe-eyed houris Frank ?

Imagine his family reaction, after they've learned, he was offered as an exchange for prisoners held by us army.

I wonder if no negotiations with terrorists will still stand after that...

What's fishy?

Certainly not the capturing a civilian, hacking his head off in the most brutal way, holding his severed head up for the camera and celebrating, certainly not that.

You are right, the gold ring and the clothing manufacturer really got my attention.

Yikes.

Naples,
if you would kindly scroll up and read some of the replies.
ignore the "what if", just read on the facts.

Jeeeeeezus man, do you always eat, what your government feeds you?

No, that's just revolting, I'm with you on that.

My personal feeling is that it was Islamic fundamentalists wankers who did this. I'm talking about his detention, his release, the prisoner exchange offer...

Right. I'm keeping out of this one!

No of course not, nor do I look for conspiracies in every little thing.

I was actually trying to point out that maybe you noticed the wrong stuff, I don't know.

I'm not looking for conspiracies either.

But this smells.

Maybe he was being held, or was recently again arrested by the Iraqi Prison service, and some extreme element of the guards were so disgusted by the US abuses, that they killed him, The Iraqi's cant admit it was themselves, so they had to pretend to be some fundie Islamic group, the US can't admit it was the Iraqi guards, because that brings up a nasty public support issue about why we are there trying to help them, and the US admin get the tape and blame Al-Q, because that serves their agenda.

????

I agree. The simple truth is that the poor bastard had his head chopped off by bastards.

Amen

I have no idea if there is anything fishy about this....

But I do have an idea about the nature of conspiracy theories:

Anything scrutinized closely enough will eventually begin to dissolve into a welter of apparently contradictory and confusing micro-incidents, because that is the nature of reality.

It is akin to increasing the magnification on a photograph until the sense of the image is lost and you're just looking at the grain.

The "grain" of events in the world is the point at which all actions appear synchronistic because you have successfully stripped the event of all of its causal affiliations, leaving it "naked", as it were, and open to (in fact tending towards, like charged ion) recombination within a new narrative.

As I say, there may well be something we're not being told, and god knows actual secret nefariousness is far too common in this world.

However, the appearance of "inconsistencies" strike me as inherent in the flow of all events, awaiting discovery by any sufficiently diligent investigator.

I have to say that I agree with this. Conspiracy theories are actually comforting in a way. The truth is that people are generally incompetent; they make mistakes; bad things happen to people who don't deserve it; generally, shit happens. It's not an altogether pleasant thing to acknowledge the fact that the universe actually owes none of us a damn thing and there is no plot.

AND, at least people who construct conspiracy theories, have the mental capacity to source and digest several sources of information and can piece together something that 95%-of-the-thick-twat-believe-the-first-opinion-given-as-gospel-population can not.

Who was it that started the "Our president is lying to us to start a war" thread. How many of those conspiracy theories did you pour scorn over turn out to be true?

Its because of wankers like you (no-one actually inferred) that wankers in high positions can get away with the bullshit time and time again.

Can not you realize that the people who are supposed to be serving the populace, are taking us all for monkeys. For GODS sake the longer you let them get away with it, the worse it will become. You need to Question everything until there is no doubt that you have established the truth. The first line is always without doubt about as far from the truth as you can possibly get, and as people we need to keep pushing and pushing until they are forced to give the absolute truth.

The real truth will probably belong somewhere between what the admin will tell us, and the worst conspiracy theory you can imagine. Period.

Jews are member of a religion on a race.


I just know who the targets of the worlds ire are these days. Gotta problem? Blame the Jews and the US!

There's a difference between 'Diana was killed by MI6' (she wasn't, her driver was drunk and drove too fast) and 'George Bush is lying to start a war' (he was, he did.)

please show me where anyone in this thread blames the jews for beheading nick berg and i will send you 300 by paypal and until then please go away please please please

There were obviously two cameras, one on a tripod and another was hand held, IIRC. The hand held had a different time stamp.

It seems that these people are probably either Zarqawi sympathysers,

But probably they are Baath party members who want to discredit the US by making it seem that Zarqawi is alive and well, to make it seem that they (Baath party) are a relatively good force for stability.
Why?
Because they know that the more that the opposition seems to be Fundamentalist or religious the more the US will turn to them as a secular option . . .as in the almost hiring of one of them to head a 'security' force in Fallujah.

But I will also say that the US also wants to make sure we think it was AQ . . . or who-ever translated the text, as it is in the Bush administrations interests to have AQ operating in Iraq because it retroactively justifies this messed up war.

1) Are you Jewish?

2) Nick Berg, from the local news reports, was Jewish (or at least his funeral is planned for being held at a synogogue).

I think we can safely blame Nick Berg for a significant fraction of his death, so by doing so I am saying a Jew was responsible for his death...

I think I did! You gonna give me the 300?

i will glady pay you the 300 when you show me
where
in
this
thread
someone
blames
the
jews
for
chopping
off
nick
berg's
head
and 'i think i did' isn't the answer i was looking for

It's correct to say that Jews are not a race, but saying that Judaism is a religion to the exclusion of its being anything else is an oversimplification that many would find offensive or ignorant.


I think I see what's going on. Whenever Scott types I-S-R-A-E-L on his computer keyboard it appears onscreen as T-H-E J-E-W-S. It's his computer keyboard's way of implying that anyone who disproves of the actions of the US and Israel in the middle east is motivated by anti-semitism.

I know what direction the world spins. Oh and by the way there's no such thing as anti-semitism as I learned in a thread here on AI recently.

I think he may have a point even though he may be expressing it in a provocative manner:

It seems that the collective muslim community and the rest of the world have settled upon blaming anything and everything at the doorsteps of either the US/UK and if that does not work then Israel.

I mean, lets look around, i think it would be interesting to see if anyone blames say Iran or SA or whoever. I would offer that it comes right back to the US to take the blame at some point.

Scott's creating a counterpoint to the tin hat club's idea that this is really US forces covering up/framing these Islamic militants. Therefore, it's just as off-the-wall ridiculous, deliberately so. I'm surprised this has to be explained. We've all (well certain ones of us) made posts like this enough times that we should be able to read between the lines. This has nothing to do with Israel or Jews per se, except that it's pointing to a parallel pattern of behavior that's evident at least to Scott in this thread.

Frankly, I wish Scott would just say so much, instead of provoking some more and being rather obtuse about it.

oh look scott doesn't want the money

the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews

There you go. That's about a years-worth of Jews, Scott.

That should do you.

Or we could start a Perpetual The Jews Thread, perhaps?

OK, fuck it, the thread's closed again. For good. Sorry we can't have intelligent and thoughtful discussion about important matters like this. I will close any further attempts to address this topic because it's obvious where it will end up.